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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXVI - Point Of No Return

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Ola said:
They are holding up the rebuild.

If we didn’t have a defender under contract — would we sign 4 over the hill vets with zero potential to help us down the road? Smith, Staal, Shatty and McQuaid. Four. Skjei is a piece for the future. That is 5. One spot left for someone that can help us when we are supposed to start to contend again. 1.5 years into the rebuild. How many years are left? 2? 3? 4? When are we supposed to start to rebuild the blueline that will be the back bone of those teams? After the 21/22 season when these guys are off the books? The year before that? It’s a project that will take years.

It’s should be prio No 1 to get rid of guys with zero potential to help us down the line and start finding long term solutions. But it will make the GM look bad.

What is the upside with keeping them longer? Maybe a pick? I think the cost of waiting until 21/22 before we launch the project of building a blueline that can be the backbone of a contender will be enourmous...
Click to expand...

They are not holding up the rebuild

The last thing you ever want to do with Defenders is rush them.

I'd much rather let these contracts term out while the kids in the system marinate and mature a bit before throwing them in to a losing situation at the NHL level.

Plus, the defenders we have in the system, not on the pro roster, are not yet ready for a regular NHL shift.

Playing them not will stunt their development more than help it.
 
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I don't want to beat up on Shattenkirk but him playing "good lately" is a constellation prize. Guy was brought in to be an offensive DMan and he'll be lucky to put up 20 points. He's not that good anymore. He gets top PP time with two most likely 30 goal scorers so it's not like the load is all on him.

Smith has no value. He's not a smart hockey player. Never was. He played pretty good on a sheltered role and against one team 6x in a playoff series.

People mentioned Trent Frederic as a target for Boston. I'd be happy to get him. Guy has wheels. A shutdown 3rd line of Frederic/Howden/Anderson for 5-7 years sounds pretty darn good.
 
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Ola said:
They are holding up the rebuild.

If we didn’t have a defender under contract — would we sign 4 over the hill vets with zero potential to help us down the road? Smith, Staal, Shatty and McQuaid. Four. Skjei is a piece for the future. That is 5. One spot left for someone that can help us when we are supposed to start to contend again. 1.5 years into the rebuild. How many years are left? 2? 3? 4? When are we supposed to start to rebuild the blueline that will be the back bone of those teams? After the 21/22 season when these guys are off the books? The year before that? It’s a project that will take years.

It’s should be prio No 1 to get rid of guys with zero potential to help us down the line and start finding long term solutions. But it will make the GM look bad.

What is the upside with keeping them longer? Maybe a pick? I think the cost of waiting until 21/22 before we launch the project of building a blueline that can be the backbone of a contender will be enourmous...
Click to expand...

The rebuild may have been the thought behind the Stepan trade, but didnt really start until the letter was sent 1 year ago.

We are still so very early in this process.

Forget the playoffs until 2022-23.

There is no fast tracking this process

Even with a Hughes pick in this draft, we have to expect Chytil to more than double his production in the next two years. I find that doubtful. We have to expect Lias to learn to become the impact player we had been hoping for. We have to expect Kravstov to be an impact player immediately

These are all pie in the sky expectations

Playoffs.....maybe in 22-23
 
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Stepan is having a really bad year. He might be past the point of return. Him and Brassard both have declined. It's nature. Most of the guys who played for late Torts/early AV have declined except maybe Brian Boyle. I don't count Miller who was very young.

I'm still hopeful for playoffs in spring of 2020-21 if the league doesn't lockout lol. A lot needs to go right. Right moves, right picks. I think with the D they have so many it's like throwing meat on wall. Some has to stick.

Up front they just have to keep acquiring picks and prospects. They will sign one of the big UFAs this summer. They have to. Panarin or Stone. What's going to help speed up the rebuild is one of these later round picks. If they can develop into more than a bottom 6er. Virta/Pajuniemi/someone in a trade this month. I'm not saying those guys have to be elite, but they absolutely need one to develop into a top 6 compliment winger. Someone who can pot 25 goals and like 50 points every year. Maybe it's Barron as well down the line.
 
pld459666 said:
They are not holding up the rebuild

The last thing you ever want to do with Defenders is rush them.

I'd much rather let these contracts term out while the kids in the system marinate and mature a bit before throwing them in to a losing situation at the NHL level.

Plus, the defenders we have in the system, not on the pro roster, are not yet ready for a regular NHL shift.

Playing them not will stunt their development more than help it.
Click to expand...

We are not drafting a bunch of kids and then putting together a blueline of them in 3-4 years. Not even remotely.

If we ever are getting out of this rebuild in 3-4 years it certainly will not be with a blueline built around KAndre, Nils Lundkvist, Hajak and guys drafted in 19’-21’. Almost all Ds aren’t ready to take on big roles before they are 24-25 years at the earliest.

We need to develop guys in the NHL. And I am not talking about Lindgren/Hajak being rushed. If we had 2 openings on the blueline instead of 0 we would pick guys off waivers, trade for younger Ds, sign UDFAs.

We never get out the hole we where in before the lockout without those type of moves before 05’. Where did Rozsival come from? Where did Malik come from?
 
Skjeikspeare said:
Stepan is having a really bad year. He might be past the point of return. Him and Brassard both have declined. It's nature. Most of the guys who played for late Torts/early AV have declined except maybe Brian Boyle. I don't count Miller who was very young.

I'm still hopeful for playoffs in spring of 2020-21 if the league doesn't lockout lol. A lot needs to go right. Right moves, right picks. I think with the D they have so many it's like throwing meat on wall. Some has to stick.

Up front they just have to keep acquiring picks and prospects. They will sign one of the big UFAs this summer. They have to. Panarin or Stone. What's going to help speed up the rebuild is one of these later round picks. If they can develop into more than a bottom 6er. Virta/Pajuniemi/someone in a trade this month. I'm not saying those guys have to be elite, but they absolutely need one to develop into a top 6 compliment winger. Someone who can pot 25 goals and like 50 points every year. Maybe it's Barron as well down the line.
Click to expand...

I think we really overestimate the difficulty of making the playoffs. Depending on what the team does in the offseason, they could make the playoffs next season. The Devils basically rode Taylor Hall, and Taylor Hall alone, to the playoffs last season. If you add a big name guy like Panarin, guys like Chytil and Howden take steps forward, and they somehow shed some of the dead weight on D; they could definitely have a shot at making the playoffs especially considering over half the league makes the playoffs. Now being a legitimate Cup contender? That's multiple years away.
 
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Are we in a "anyone is available" situation, or is it more the boards being the boards?

I feel like a long-term LD option like Skjei might be attractive to a team with thin LD depth like Winnipeg. It would kill our LD depth, for sure.
 
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I heard on very good authority the Rangers want to resign Hayes over the summer after trading him. Take it for what it’s worth but that’s what they want to do apparently.
 
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Having said that I think it’s a mistake. I think we should be focusing on Panarin but that’s what I was told
 
Ola said:
We are not drafting a bunch of kids and then putting together a blueline of them in 3-4 years. Not even remotely.

If we ever are getting out of this rebuild in 3-4 years it certainly will not be with a blueline built around KAndre, Nils Lundkvist, Hajak and guys drafted in 19’-21’. Almost all Ds aren’t ready to take on big roles before they are 24-25 years at the earliest.

We need to develop guys in the NHL. And I am not talking about Lindgren/Hajak being rushed. If we had 2 openings on the blueline instead of 0 we would pick guys off waivers, trade for younger Ds, sign UDFAs.

We never get out the hole we where in before the lockout without those type of moves before 05’. Where did Rozsival come from? Where did Malik come from?
Click to expand...

Pionk, ADA and Skjei are half a top 6, specific roles aside.

You're making a bigger issue of three guys that will be gone in 2 years.
 
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Kovalev27 said:
I heard on very good authority the Rangers want to resign Hayes over the summer after trading him. Take it for what it’s worth but that’s what they want to do apparently.
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Could be a coup if they pull it off.

Hayes is a beast, and I wouldn’t mind keeping him, but we need the assets he’ll bring im a trade. If we can do both, f*** it.

I don’t feel the same about Zucc, though.
 
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Yeah they plan is not the same for Zucc he’ll be dealt and that will be it for him. Hayes they want the assests and they want the player back.

I’ll say this it’s hard as hell to find talented centers in this league.
 
Kovalev27 said:
I heard on very good authority the Rangers want to resign Hayes over the summer after trading him. Take it for what it’s worth but that’s what they want to do apparently.
Click to expand...
There will be a lot of teams that want to sign him as well. Let’s hope they offer him a much bigger contract than us if true.
 
pld459666 said:
The rebuild may have been the thought behind the Stepan trade, but didnt really start until the letter was sent 1 year ago.

We are still so very early in this process.

Forget the playoffs until 2022-23.

There is no fast tracking this process

Even with a Hughes pick in this draft, we have to expect Chytil to more than double his production in the next two years. I find that doubtful. We have to expect Lias to learn to become the impact player we had been hoping for. We have to expect Kravstov to be an impact player immediately

These are all pie in the sky expectations

Playoffs.....maybe in 22-23
Click to expand...

After the CBA and expansion.
Makes logical sense.
 
I've been asking around and the only things I've heard of NYR interest are a) the Rangers and Vegas have apparently talked (about what I have no idea, my speculation - Vegas could use another forward) and b) Winnipeg is waiting to see who is available for trade before making a move (my speculation - this might be a Duchesne/Hayes dynamic)
 
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Kovalev27 said:
I heard on very good authority the Rangers want to resign Hayes over the summer after trading him. Take it for what it’s worth but that’s what they want to do apparently.
Click to expand...
I'd be happy about it, but I wish they would have just signed him this offseason long-term. Going to cost more at more term to sign him now.
 
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bobbop said:
I've been asking around and the only things I've heard of NYR interest are a) the Rangers and Vegas have apparently talked (about what I have no idea, my speculation - Vegas could use another forward) and b) Winnipeg is waiting to see who is available for trade before making a move (my speculation - this might be a Duchene/Hayes dynamic)
Click to expand...
Friedman said last night that the Sens later this week will tell other teams what their plans are with Dzingel/Stone/Duchene, so that very well could get the ball rolling.
 
pld459666 said:
Pionk, ADA and Skjei are half a top 6, specific roles aside.

You're making a bigger issue of three guys that will be gone in 2 years.
Click to expand...

Obviously that is how most think. I think it’s a much bigger issue than what it’s made out to be.

The talk about how their value only can go up, how they will be easier to move with just a year left and whatnot rings a lot of alarm bells for me. Something we have heard from EDM fans at hfboards the last decade. It’s pure wishful thinking.

Shatty had not won PP time in practice. He got ice time about the same time Brooks wrote his article because he was completely going under without it. The ice time went from the kids to the vet. Staal and Smith, is all a younger player needs to do to come in and play OK? Staal and/or Smith will be sent to the AHL? I thought Claesson at times more or less matched the play of both. Younger and much cheaper player. Who will be here next season, Claesson or Staal or Smith? We all know the answer of that one.

I think it’s essential that a franchise is able to take control of its own destiny and not just let things happen to you. We can’t play a full rebuild, three years of it, with three vets taking up 50% of our blueline and then expect a blueline to emerge and just flourish when the three finally are put six feet under. I don’t think I overstate the cost of that, I think it’s the complete opposite. That approach could easily result in is not winning a PO game during the 2020s.

The project to build a blueline in NY that can help us in 2022-2023 should have started yesterday. Not in September 2022.
 
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