Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXVI - Point Of No Return

[ZiGOODejad]

Obviously that is how most think. I think it’s a much bigger issue than what it’s made out to be.

The talk about how their value only can go up, how they will be easier to move with just a year left and whatnot rings a lot of alarm bells for me. Something we have heard from EDM fans at hfboards the last decade. It’s pure wishful thinking.

Shatty had not won PP time in practice. He got ice time about the same time Brooks wrote his article because he was completely going under without it. The ice time went from the kids to the vet. Staal and Smith, is all a younger player needs to do to come in and play OK? Staal and/or Smith will be sent to the AHL? I thought Claesson at times more or less matched the play of both. Younger and much cheaper player. Who will be here next season, Claesson or Staal or Smith? We all know the answer of that one.

I think it’s essential that a franchise is able to take control of its own destiny and not just let things happen to you. We can’t play a full rebuild, three years of it, with three vets taking up 50% of our blueline and then expect a blueline to emerge and just flourish when the three finally are put six feet under. I don’t think I overstate the cost of that, I think it’s the complete opposite. That approach could easily result in is not winning a PO game during the 2020s.

The project to build a blueline in NY that can help us in 2022-2023 should have started yesterday. Not in September 2022.

Honestly I’d just bury smith in the A because IMO he basically isn’t a movable contract

 

[DutchShamrock]

They drafted like 8 defensemen last summer, acquired 3 or 4 at the deadline that are further along in development, they have a college UFA from a few seasons ago and a recent 1st rd defenseman in the current lineup. The process to outfit the future roster isn't starting in 2 summers. It started 2 summers ago.

It's fine. Not great but not terrible. The GM targets developed guys. They are keyed into Fox. They will turn other assets into contributors. This is a process. If the answers were here we wouldn't suck. There is a difference between having needs that the GM is obviously addressing and having a GM that is clearly oblivious.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Trade/Rid: McQ, Hayes, Zuc, Smith

Maybes: Names, Shatty, Staal, Buch, Vesey

 

[Ola]

They drafted like 8 defensemen last summer, acquired 3 or 4 at the deadline that are further along in development, they have a college UFA from a few seasons ago and a recent 1st rd defenseman in the current lineup. The process to outfit the future roster isn't starting in 2 summers. It started 2 summers ago.

It's fine. Not great but not terrible. The GM targets developed guys. They are keyed into Fox. They will turn other assets into contributors. This is a process. If the answers were here we wouldn't suck. There is a difference between having needs that the GM is obviously addressing and having a GM that is clearly oblivious.

The rebuild may have been the thought behind the Stepan trade, but didnt really start until the letter was sent 1 year ago.

We are still so very early in this process.

Forget the playoffs until 2022-23.

There is no fast tracking this process

Even with a Hughes pick in this draft, we have to expect Chytil to more than double his production in the next two years. I find that doubtful. We have to expect Lias to learn to become the impact player we had been hoping for. We have to expect Kravstov to be an impact player immediately

These are all pie in the sky expectations

Playoffs.....maybe in 22-23

How could we even remotely be ready for the POs in 2022/23 with this approach? I don't get it to add up. This is how it would play out:

	19/20	20/21	21/22	22/23
LD1	Smith 31 y/o	Smith 32 y/o	Skjei 28 y/o	Skjei 29 y/o
RD1	Shatty 31 y/o	Shatty 32 y/o	TDA/Pionk 26 y/o	TDA/Pionk 27 y/o
LD2	Skjei 26 y/o	Skjei 27 y/o	Hajak 23 y/o ROOKIE	Hajak 24 y/o
RD2	TDA 24 y/o	TDA 25 y/o	Lundkvist 22 y/o ROOKIE	Lundkvist 23 y/o
LD3	Staal 33 y/o	Staal 34 y/o	Miller 22 y/o ROOKIE	Miller 23 y/o
RD3	Pionk 24 y/o	Pionk 25 y/o	Joey Keane 22 y/o ROOKIE	Joey Keane 23 y/o
Goalie	Hank	Hank	Shesty ROOKIE (?)	A D drafted 19'-21'? Will be far from ready.

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Both Pionk and TDA are never surviving 3 years behind Shatty, all those three are identical player types that need the same minutes to play well. One of Pionk and TDA can make it through though despite Shatty, but I do think that is a bit wishful thinking, but lets count on one of them. People don't have all the patience in the world. By 2021/22 we won't have been close to a PO spot for a really long time. Especially the forwards, Lias, Chytil, Howden, Buch and co will start to get a lot of pressure on them. They will be extreme losers, playing with dreams for a few weeks every season before its clear that we will miss again. That 21/22 season would be an extreme mess with four rookies on the blueline. I guess we would sign a big UFA signing too? Add that guy in there. Who is available in the summer of 21'? Seems like a great risk that it only would be some misfit. Some Sekera like trash. Would be a real crash landing again just as everyone start to get their hopes up. No matter how strong our kids are, there is no way they can survive those 5-6 years of hell never getting close to the POs in NY. We will have to start over again just like EDM are.

The only sane way -- from my POV -- would have been to clear out at least one of Staal, Smith and Shatty before this season, and not trade for McQuaid. Start to build a blueline through trades for guys not hitting it off elsewhere, waiver pick ups, UDFAs etc -- in 2018. Well that is too late. But to not do it in the summer of 2019 is just completely insane from my POV. That would at least give us a shot to have a team that can start to trend in the right way in 21'-23'.

When you rebuild you are playing with fire. And any burn will without any doubt prolong the rebuild several years. Its just extremely naive and complete wishful thinking to expect the above approach to work out...

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers have a scout at the Syracuse-Providence AHL game. Lightning and Bruins.

TheAHL.com

 

[Kovalev27]

I think Zucc goes to Boston

I think they want to trade Hayes west

 

[Vitto79]

The Rangers have a scout at the Syracuse-Providence AHL game. Lightning and Bruins.

TheAHL.com

There’s a good chance Gorton goes to his old team again

No Yzerman anymore but there’s a history in Tbay too. Plus I think Cally is coming back soon

 

[cheech70]

I think Zucc goes to Boston

I think they want to trade Hayes west

Zuke.....a 1st and prospect possible?

 

[Lion Hound]

The Rangers have a scout at the Syracuse-Providence AHL game. Lightning and Bruins.

TheAHL.com

Maybe the're looking at Forsbacka-Karlsson?

Quinn coached him for 2 years @BU.

Frederick is still with the B's so they aren't looking at him.

 

[Kovalev27]

Zuke.....a 1st and prospect possible?

I’m hoping so just like everyone else brother

 

[Webster]

Zuke.....a 1st and prospect possible?

As a rental? Doubt that. The Rangers will be his desired destination after July 1.

 

[pld459666]

How could we even remotely be ready for the POs in 2022/23 with this approach? I don't get it to add up. This is how it would play out:

	19/20	20/21	21/22	22/23
LD1	Smith 31 y/o	Smith 32 y/o	Skjei 28 y/o	Skjei 29 y/o
RD1	Shatty 31 y/o	Shatty 32 y/o	TDA/Pionk 26 y/o	TDA/Pionk 27 y/o
LD2	Skjei 26 y/o	Skjei 27 y/o	Hajak 23 y/o ROOKIE	Hajak 24 y/o
RD2	TDA 24 y/o	TDA 25 y/o	Lundkvist 22 y/o ROOKIE	Lundkvist 23 y/o
LD3	Staal 33 y/o	Staal 34 y/o	Miller 22 y/o ROOKIE	Miller 23 y/o
RD3	Pionk 24 y/o	Pionk 25 y/o	Joey Keane 22 y/o ROOKIE	Joey Keane 23 y/o
Goalie	Hank	Hank	Shesty ROOKIE (?)	A D drafted 19'-21'? Will be far from ready.

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Both Pionk and TDA are never surviving 3 years behind Shatty, all those three are identical player types that need the same minutes to play well. One of Pionk and TDA can make it through though despite Shatty, but I do think that is a bit wishful thinking, but lets count on one of them. People don't have all the patience in the world. By 2021/22 we won't have been close to a PO spot for a really long time. Especially the forwards, Lias, Chytil, Howden, Buch and co will start to get a lot of pressure on them. They will be extreme losers, playing with dreams for a few weeks every season before its clear that we will miss again. That 21/22 season would be an extreme mess with four rookies on the blueline. I guess we would sign a big UFA signing too? Add that guy in there. Who is available in the summer of 21'? Seems like a great risk that it only would be some misfit. Some Sekera like trash. Would be a real crash landing again just as everyone start to get their hopes up. No matter how strong our kids are, there is no way they can survive those 5-6 years of hell never getting close to the POs in NY. We will have to start over again just like EDM are.

The only sane way -- from my POV -- would have been to clear out at least one of Staal, Smith and Shatty before this season, and not trade for McQuaid. Start to build a blueline through trades for guys not hitting it off elsewhere, waiver pick ups, UDFAs etc -- in 2018. Well that is too late. But to not do it in the summer of 2019 is just completely insane from my POV. That would at least give us a shot to have a team that can start to trend in the right way in 21'-23'.

When you rebuild you are playing with fire. And any burn will without any doubt prolong the rebuild several years. Its just extremely naive and complete wishful thinking to expect the above approach to work out...

I guess that one year into the rebuild, I'm less concerned about the holes in our system and am more than willing to let the process play out.

 

[Ola]

I guess that one year into the rebuild, I'm less concerned about the holes in our system and am more than willing to let the process play out.

What process? Isn't it supposed to start in 2021?

Watching Ryan Graves play pretty good hockey for Colorado. 54% CF for those who count that. 6'4 homegrown steady D, one of the hardest shots in hockey. Why isn't he playing in NY? Due to Gort's vets. Its those type of guys we should invest in, not Smith, Staal and Shatty or McQuaid for that matter either. What will we get for McQuaid, a 2nd rounder instead of a 4th rounder. Is it really worth him taking up a spot?

 

[DanielBrassard]

What process? Isn't it supposed to start in 2021?

Watching Ryan Graves play pretty good hockey for Colorado. 54% CF for those who count that. 6'4 homegrown steady D, one of the hardest shots in hockey. Why isn't he playing in NY? Due to Gort's vets. Its those type of guys we should invest in, not Smith, Staal and Shatty or McQuaid for that matter either. What will we get for McQuaid, a 2nd rounder instead of a 4th rounder. Is it really worth him taking up a spot?

I think most people agree the McQuaid trade was dumb. Total waste of a couple picks and taking ice time from other better defenseman.

 

[Trxjw]

Maybe the're looking at Forsbacka-Karlsson?

Quinn coached him for 2 years @BU.

Frederick is still with the B's so they aren't looking at him.

JFK doesn't appear to be playing today.

In fact, the only notable guys they have playing today are Vaakanainen, Senyshyn, and Donato.

Katchouk, Raddysh and Foote are all playing for Syracse.

 

[Vitto79]

JFK doesn't appear to be playing today.

In fact, the only notable guys they have playing today are Vaakanainen, Senyshyn, and Donato.

Katchouk, Raddysh and Foote are all playing for Syracse.

No Bjork ?

 

[pld459666]

What process? Isn't it supposed to start in 2021?

Watching Ryan Graves play pretty good hockey for Colorado. 54% CF for those who count that. 6'4 homegrown steady D, one of the hardest shots in hockey. Why isn't he playing in NY? Due to Gort's vets. Its those type of guys we should invest in, not Smith, Staal and Shatty or McQuaid for that matter either. What will we get for McQuaid, a 2nd rounder instead of a 4th rounder. Is it really worth him taking up a spot?

The rebuild process started with the letter.

And so long as it's done right, I'm more than patient to watch it play out

 

[Vitto79]

I think most people agree the McQuaid trade was dumb. Total waste of a couple picks and taking ice time from other better defenseman.

It’s not If he’s flipped for a higher pick

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I thought I read on the Bruins forum that JFK was injured

 

[Lion Hound]

What process? Isn't it supposed to start in 2021?

Watching Ryan Graves play pretty good hockey for Colorado. 54% CF for those who count that. 6'4 homegrown steady D, one of the hardest shots in hockey. Why isn't he playing in NY? Due to Gort's vets. Its those type of guys we should invest in, not Smith, Staal and Shatty or McQuaid for that matter either. What will we get for McQuaid, a 2nd rounder instead of a 4th rounder. Is it really worth him taking up a spot?

Hated that trade. Really wanted to see Graves get a chance.

Read earlier on Twitter they expect him to stay with the Avs for the remainder of the season. He played 10 games so he would have to clear if he was sent back.

 

[DanielBrassard]

It’s not If he’s flipped for a higher pick

Even if he's flipped for a 3rd it's not a worthwhile trade, but hopefully at this point he can even bring that back.

 

[bobbop]

Even if he's flipped for a 3rd it's not a worthwhile trade, but hopefully at this point he can even bring that back.

Why is it not worthwhile? He has certainly steadied Skeji quite a bit.

 

[Ola]

There’s a good chance Gorton goes to his old team again

No Yzerman anymore but there’s a history in Tbay too. Plus I think Cally is coming back soon

How much is Yzerman involved though? I always thought it was more him taking a step back hour wise, but figured he would have a big say on the big decisions...

 

[duhmetreE]

I said it before, I'd go all-in for a player like Kakko if we dont hit the lotto.

We don't need anymore quantity.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

What process? Isn't it supposed to start in 2021?

Watching Ryan Graves play pretty good hockey for Colorado. 54% CF for those who count that. 6'4 homegrown steady D, one of the hardest shots in hockey. Why isn't he playing in NY? Due to Gort's vets. Its those type of guys we should invest in, not Smith, Staal and Shatty or McQuaid for that matter either. What will we get for McQuaid, a 2nd rounder instead of a 4th rounder. Is it really worth him taking up a spot?

He’s played 10 games this year. 10