Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXVI - Point Of No Return

[Hockeyplayer99]

St Louis was seen as many as a sleeper as a cup champ before the season started.

They started out rough and the goalie wasn't good, but this shouldn't really be surprising to anyone, they're a good team.

Their metrics are wayyyyy up both offensively and defensively since Berube took over (They fed the Rangers their lunch on New Years Eve and Hank stone walled them.) It's only started to manifest itself in wins lately though.

I'm more surprised by Chicago turning a corner - that was a team that looked like they had nothing left to play for and lo and behold, they're right in the playoff race. The top heavy nature of the West has a lot to do with that, but it's also entirely possible (if not probable) that the Rangers finish behind everyone in the west aside from Anaheim who looks like they couldn't even hack it in the A right now.

But post deadline, that may be us too.

The Ducks are in full tank mode right now.

 

[SA16]

I rember when Duncan Keith broke into the league for Chicago. They had so horrible teams in Chicago. He was one of very few little younger OK looking players. He got there in his D+4 season. 22 y/o. There were openings for players that could skate and pass the puck.

I would love to be able to like show some video from his 1-2 season. It’s unthink to at that time claim that he is a future Norris Trophy winner. It’s not that far off to claim that it’s like claiming today that TDA will win a couple of Norris Trophy’s the coming five years.

And if Keith goes to a team with a set blueline, say 1-2 really good LDs infront of him, there is no way no how he ever gets to the level he did get. Sure he did a fantastic job, he was such a professional and mentally he had everything, but getting a shot to be Chicago’s No 1 D those first three years he played in the NHL also let him grow into that role, develop that poise. You can never get that if you play 14 minutes a night on a 3rd pairing.

If need to open up spots on the blueline and start trying to put something together sooner rather than later.

In Mark Giordanos first full year he played 13:27/game on the third pairing.

 

[Mikos87]

Yep. Look at some the deals for high end players: Mcdonagh, Karlsson, Duchene, etc...all return “quantity” types of packages (and before anyone brings up the Ottawa 1st for Duchene, keep in mind that Ottawa was just about 20 games removed from being 1 goal away from the finals, that pick wasn't considered a god tier asset when it was traded). Either that, or it’s a “hockey trade”, like Jones/Johansen.

You just don’t see great prospects moved around. A guy like Necas will essentially NEVER get traded nowadays. Their ELC years are too valuable to move.

Exactly, and even now teams are regretting tradingthe 1st round pick a year away.

CGY last year, STL this year.

You will see B and C prospects get moved at the deadline.

That's a young player who can play an effective 3rd line or 3rd pair role. And a prospect with some potential, but not considered an ace. And picks.

 

[Avery16]

This franchise isn't exactly stockpiled with talent or skill. You can't field a team of draft picks and 4th liners and I doubt Dolan is on board for a 5 year playoff absence/rebuild. We'll see.

I think this take is a little hyperbolic. Shattenkirk is getting third pairing minutes. You don’t turn a three year rebuild into a five year rebuild by moving your third paid defender, who would be gone after two seasons anyways. Do you think we’re making the playoffs this or next season? News to me.

 

[haohmaru]

I think this take is a little hyperbolic. Shattenkirk is getting third pairing minutes. You don’t turn a three year rebuild into a five year rebuild by moving your third paid defender, who would be gone after two seasons anyways. Do you think we’re making the playoffs this or next season? News to me.

Shattenkirk isn't a 3rd pair defender and he's definitely playing his best hockey of the season. Remember, he's not on the PK and the Rangers are among the highest penalized teams in the league so a "third pair" minutes comment is a bit skewed.

Are we making the playoffs this year? Nope. I'm not speculating about next year, since, you know, we don't even know who will be on the team. Kinda early to write that shit off don't you think? Talk about hyperbole.

Even if I were on board with trading Shattenkirk (which I'm not saying I'm not), it certainly wouldn't be NOW when his value is in the toilet. He's improving and gaining confidence coming back from an injury. If he keeps it up, he'll fetch quite a bit more NEXT deadline than he will this one.

 

[Avery16]

Shattenkirk isn't a 3rd pair defender and he's definitely playing his best hockey of the season. Remember, he's not on the PK and the Rangers are among the highest penalized teams in the league so a "third pair" minutes comment is a bit skewed.

Are we making the playoffs this year? Nope. I'm not speculating about next year, since, you know, we don't even know who will be on the team. Kinda early to write that **** off don't you think? Talk about hyperbole.

Even if I were on board with trading Shattenkirk (which I'm not saying I'm not), it certainly wouldn't be NOW when his value is in the toilet. He's improving and gaining confidence coming back from an injury. If he keeps it up, he'll fetch quite a bit more NEXT deadline than he will this one.

Didn’t say he was a third pair D, just that he’s getting third pair minutes.

I’m all for hoping, but you generally don’t make a playoff appearance in years one or two of a rebuild.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Montreal apparently looking to move hudon, I'd definately want to look at that. According to kypreos it might take a 3rd rounder.

 

[Thirty One]

I had better offers.

I think Barnaby said he signed with the Blackhawks because he liked the jerseys.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Montreal apparently looking to move hudon, I'd definately want to look at that. According to kypreos it might take a 3rd rounder.

Why?

 

[Lays]

Montreal apparently looking to move hudon, I'd definately want to look at that. According to kypreos it might take a 3rd rounder.

Hudon sucks

 

[nevesis]

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Hopefully its one of those things that looked worse than it was.

the fact that he got off on his own is a good sign though.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Why?

He is a better player than they are allowing him to be for some reason. Good speed, good hands,small but who cares.

 

[Barnaby]

If a previous front office signed them I think we would be in a much bigger hurry to get rid of them...

They are perfect for where this team is. The team needs some vets, and these guys provide leadership while still sucking, thus helping the youth develop and team tank.

Not one of these guys will block a youngster who is ready.

If Shatty can continue to raise his game then maybe he gets us some futures at some point.

 

[Ola]

Yep. Look at some the deals for high end players: Mcdonagh, Karlsson, Duchene, etc...all return “quantity” types of packages (and before anyone brings up the Ottawa 1st for Duchene, keep in mind that Ottawa was just about 20 games removed from being 1 goal away from the finals, that pick wasn't considered a god tier asset when it was traded). Either that, or it’s a “hockey trade”, like Jones/Johansen.

You just don’t see great prospects moved around. A guy like Necas will essentially NEVER get traded nowadays. Their ELC years are too valuable to move.

You have a point, but one thing that irks me is how large the group of kids ‘having too valuable ELC years’ supposedly is.

I like Necas, but are the odds even 50% of him becoming the player that is as valuable as the value many are attaching to him today?

But I recon that is why no deals are made in the NHL. GMs won’t venture into that territory putting a price tag on risk/reward because it can make you look bad. And in their normal course of business very very little can make them look bad. They have a great job, why expose yourself if you don’t have to?

 

[Ola]

In Mark Giordanos first full year he played 13:27/game on the third pairing.

Yeah, give these guys a shot to come in and play and they will come in and grow.

It’s far from optimal to play your rebuilding years with a blueline if Smith, Shatty, Staal, McQuaid and so forth. Skjei got one spot pinned down, great, but it’s just — one — spot left. The cost for this will probably be tremendous for us in a few years...

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

He is a better player than they are allowing him to be for some reason. Good speed, good hands,small but who cares.

He's a 25 year old bottom 6 player. If we were contending, maybe it would make sense. We're not and we're not even close. I see no reason why guys like this should be brought in.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Cursed.

 

[RangerBoy]

Steve Eminger was in Montreal in Thursday for Jets-Habs. Eminger joined Drury and Maxwell in Boston two weeks ago for Jets-Bruins.

Washington and San Jose can use help at forward. I was watching the Caps-Panthers on the Caps feed NBC Sports feed. Craig Laughlin was saying Reirden is not sure about his lines for the rest of the season with the trading deadline coming soon. They are looking for help at forward. The Sharks have the Panthers 2nd in 2019 which should be a high 2nd. It would give the Rangers two high 2nd's. They could move one of them to move up in the 1st round. San Jose can use help at forward.

Boston needs help at forward.

The Kings came back to get a point out of their game against Boston yesterday. They were down 4-2 in the 3rd. The Kings have played well on this road trip. Lost to the Islanders. Beat the Rangers, Devils and Flyers. Lost to Boston in OT. The Kings are in Washington tomorrow night.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Eminger might be scouting the upcoming games. Rangers play the Jets this week and Devil next week.

 

[pld459666]

If a previous front office signed them I think we would be in a much bigger hurry to get rid of them...

That doesn't make any sense.

More so for a rebuilding team

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Do something please

 

[Ola]

That doesn't make any sense.

More so for a rebuilding team

They are holding up the rebuild.

If we didn’t have a defender under contract — would we sign 4 over the hill vets with zero potential to help us down the road? Smith, Staal, Shatty and McQuaid. Four. Skjei is a piece for the future. That is 5. One spot left for someone that can help us when we are supposed to start to contend again. 1.5 years into the rebuild. How many years are left? 2? 3? 4? When are we supposed to start to rebuild the blueline that will be the back bone of those teams? After the 21/22 season when these guys are off the books? The year before that? It’s a project that will take years.

It’s should be prio No 1 to get rid of guys with zero potential to help us down the line and start finding long term solutions. But it will make the GM look bad.

What is the upside with keeping them longer? Maybe a pick? I think the cost of waiting until 21/22 before we launch the project of building a blueline that can be the backbone of a contender will be enourmous...

 

[Vitto79]

Saw Veseys name as a possibility in Boston .... interested in some of their young guys

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

The next two weeks will be brutal.

Couple that with the fact that I have no clue what value our guys getting traded bring back, it’s gonna be interesting