Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXVI - Point Of No Return
- Thread starter Gardner McKay
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Shesterkybomb
Registered User
- Dec 30, 2016
- 17,722
- 19,431
The guy is a shell of his former self. Cant make a pass, can't play defense, takes dumb penalties(albeit not lately). Pretty near every time he touches the puck something bad happens. I dont know what happened to him really, the only thing he helps with now is toughness.
Shesterkybomb
Registered User
- Dec 30, 2016
- 17,722
- 19,431
I wonder if they might have an interest in taking Shattenkirk at a % cut for Gardiner. It might help us.
effen
Registered User
- Jun 27, 2003
- 12,754
- 10,974
Y'all are way too impatient for a group so set on a rebuild, in terms of getting rid of bad/old guys.
Buyouts are not the answer for a variety of reasons.
Buyouts are not the answer for a variety of reasons.
UAGoalieGuy
Registered User
If a previous front office signed them I think we would be in a much bigger hurry to get rid of them...
Stone and Duchene are terrific players especially the former. I am a Hayes fan and Zucc can still produce on a good line (which is probably what he will find himself on when he gets traded) but they are on a tier below Stone and Duchene. We need Ottawa to either A)sign those guys like they should or B) sell Really really really high. Now if there are a lot of buyers it might not impact Zucc and Hayes' value much but think about how much more they would be worth if Stone/ Duchene weren't available?!
Ottawa is a fun team to watch. They have shown signs of life for sure and have played hard (even against toronto a few games ago coming back multiple times). St. Louis is a decent team for sure and no way should finish below us.
The Devils hahahahah...Who didn't see that disaster coming when Hall went down?!
There are no hockey gods if they get a better pick than us.
DutchShamrock
Registered User
But it wasn't. They are here until the offseason. I get your position but I choose not to constantly lament the fact some of these guys are still here when it's extremely unlikely they are going anywhere. I would wager that's why a lot of other people aren't up in arms too.
You wondered and I'm offering a perspective. I wouldn't mistake silence for complacency.
- Jan 18, 2012
- 35,338
- 54,050
Shattenkirk - 6.65
Staal - 5.70
Smith - 4.35
HL30 - 8.50
$25.2M in cap over the next 2 years. HL is not going anywhere unless something changes. They need to dump the nearly $17M tied up in our average - below average defenseman. Still have the albatross of a contract that was Girardi's.. Still costing 3.6M against the cap next year. $20M tied up in shit.
The tank is strong. Can't wait to watch this team without Hayes or Zucc. Decent chance we will actually be worse next year.
Staal - 5.70
Smith - 4.35
HL30 - 8.50
$25.2M in cap over the next 2 years. HL is not going anywhere unless something changes. They need to dump the nearly $17M tied up in our average - below average defenseman. Still have the albatross of a contract that was Girardi's.. Still costing 3.6M against the cap next year. $20M tied up in shit.
The tank is strong. Can't wait to watch this team without Hayes or Zucc. Decent chance we will actually be worse next year.
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
pld459666
Registered User
Barnaby
Registered User
TheTakedown
Puck is Life
- Jul 11, 2012
- 13,694
- 1,493
UAGoalieGuy
Registered User
That's a price for a 1st line center. Even the return on top line players are taking a turn for quantity over quality. No GM in the league is making a deal like that package. You might see trades of good players before they are about to get paid that are lopsided, but other than that it's not happening.
UAGoalieGuy
Registered User
Yotes win! They are now 1 pts behind the Rangers with 5 more ROW.
Dallas is 5 and 5 in their last 10. Think they need to add some secondary talent on the wings. I know of the perfect player for them!
Dallas is 5 and 5 in their last 10. Think they need to add some secondary talent on the wings. I know of the perfect player for them!
The situation in the West could really help us. Everyone got something to play for there, more pts in the standings and fewer sellers at the deadline.
JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
Twenty f*ckin years
- Oct 8, 2010
- 80,076
- 17,715
Yep. Look at some the deals for high end players: Mcdonagh, Karlsson, Duchene, etc...all return “quantity” types of packages (and before anyone brings up the Ottawa 1st for Duchene, keep in mind that Ottawa was just about 20 games removed from being 1 goal away from the finals, that pick wasn't considered a god tier asset when it was traded). Either that, or it’s a “hockey trade”, like Jones/Johansen.
You just don’t see great prospects moved around. A guy like Necas will essentially NEVER get traded nowadays. Their ELC years are too valuable to move.
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I addition to my previous post on the log jam at D, and the reply that nobody were pushing these guys.
But that is kind of my point — why would we bring in anyone to play? Why would anyone come here? Gorton has so much ammo to throw around.
Playing D in the NHL is so much about doing the same thing night in and night out. I think the kamikaze aspect of it can be a bit underrated. It’s one thing to hit the ice and play in the NHL, it’s anothet to do it and be comfortable, calm, heady and so forth. You need to play in the NHL to get used to it. Ds that get a shot to play quite often does pretty well. It’s so much harder for someone to come in and just prove that you belong from day 1 and push out experienced NHLers.
If you totally start from scratch today, and worked all sources — UDFA, waivers, trading assets like 2nd round picks, prospects and what not — I think it’s perfectly possible to in 3 years time actually get a pretty OK blueline. The guys you give a shot will grow a lot with the opportunity they are given. Like a perfect example of how much you can do with very little is Pittsburgh. Sure they managed to cover a lot of flaws on those blue lines that won Cups, but the Ds they put on the ice still played OK hockey.
It’s just from that perspective — in combination with looking at the fact that almost all successful rebuilds were based on a more mature blueline than forward crew — that it annoys me so much that we will snooze the project of building a blueline for the first 3 years of our rebuild because we want Gorts horrible UFA signings to shine and enable us to get more value for them/give up less. It’s just so backwards. The additional picks we might gain or less cap space we have to retain — gains that are really unlikely to start with — is a total piss in the Mississippi compared to the enourmous costs we will face when we stand there without a blueline after rebuilding for 4 years...
But that is kind of my point — why would we bring in anyone to play? Why would anyone come here? Gorton has so much ammo to throw around.
Playing D in the NHL is so much about doing the same thing night in and night out. I think the kamikaze aspect of it can be a bit underrated. It’s one thing to hit the ice and play in the NHL, it’s anothet to do it and be comfortable, calm, heady and so forth. You need to play in the NHL to get used to it. Ds that get a shot to play quite often does pretty well. It’s so much harder for someone to come in and just prove that you belong from day 1 and push out experienced NHLers.
If you totally start from scratch today, and worked all sources — UDFA, waivers, trading assets like 2nd round picks, prospects and what not — I think it’s perfectly possible to in 3 years time actually get a pretty OK blueline. The guys you give a shot will grow a lot with the opportunity they are given. Like a perfect example of how much you can do with very little is Pittsburgh. Sure they managed to cover a lot of flaws on those blue lines that won Cups, but the Ds they put on the ice still played OK hockey.
It’s just from that perspective — in combination with looking at the fact that almost all successful rebuilds were based on a more mature blueline than forward crew — that it annoys me so much that we will snooze the project of building a blueline for the first 3 years of our rebuild because we want Gorts horrible UFA signings to shine and enable us to get more value for them/give up less. It’s just so backwards. The additional picks we might gain or less cap space we have to retain — gains that are really unlikely to start with — is a total piss in the Mississippi compared to the enourmous costs we will face when we stand there without a blueline after rebuilding for 4 years...
I rember when Duncan Keith broke into the league for Chicago. They had so horrible teams in Chicago. He was one of very few little younger OK looking players. He got there in his D+4 season. 22 y/o. There were openings for players that could skate and pass the puck.
I would love to be able to like show some video from his 1-2 season. It’s unthink to at that time claim that he is a future Norris Trophy winner. It’s not that far off to claim that it’s like claiming today that TDA will win a couple of Norris Trophy’s the coming five years.
And if Keith goes to a team with a set blueline, say 1-2 really good LDs infront of him, there is no way no how he ever gets to the level he did get. Sure he did a fantastic job, he was such a professional and mentally he had everything, but getting a shot to be Chicago’s No 1 D those first three years he played in the NHL also let him grow into that role, develop that poise. You can never get that if you play 14 minutes a night on a 3rd pairing.
If need to open up spots on the blueline and start trying to put something together sooner rather than later.
I would love to be able to like show some video from his 1-2 season. It’s unthink to at that time claim that he is a future Norris Trophy winner. It’s not that far off to claim that it’s like claiming today that TDA will win a couple of Norris Trophy’s the coming five years.
And if Keith goes to a team with a set blueline, say 1-2 really good LDs infront of him, there is no way no how he ever gets to the level he did get. Sure he did a fantastic job, he was such a professional and mentally he had everything, but getting a shot to be Chicago’s No 1 D those first three years he played in the NHL also let him grow into that role, develop that poise. You can never get that if you play 14 minutes a night on a 3rd pairing.
If need to open up spots on the blueline and start trying to put something together sooner rather than later.
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
This franchise isn't exactly stockpiled with talent or skill. You can't field a team of draft picks and 4th liners and I doubt Dolan is on board for a 5 year playoff absence/rebuild. We'll see.
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