Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXV - Time to say Goodbye

[Kovalev27]

He’s a good player when he’s on his game. My problem with is that I don’t see him as ‘untouchable’, and it appears the Rangers have overrated him in the same manner they are doing with Pionk. There are only five players on the roster right now, that IMO, have special qualities about them. Skjei isn’t one of those players.

Certainly not untouchable agreed

 

[FIRE DRURY]

As someone who completely disagreed with a lot of what @Machinehead said last season, I don't believe I have disagreed with him at all this year. He hasn't been wrong on anything.

He's also been rather optimistic for some mysterious reason, considering how crappy the team is.

 

[Machinehead]

As someone who completely disagreed with a lot of what @Machinehead said last season, I don't believe I have disagreed with him at all this year. He hasn't been wrong on anything.

Shucks

He's also been rather optimistic for some mysterious reason, considering how crappy the team is.

Oh don't get me wrong, I will f***ing haunt this team when they ask for it. But I do see some positive things.

I'm still leery of the execution, but I think the concept of resetting and moving in a direction we haven't tried before is a good one.

 

[Ghost of jas]

As someone who completely disagreed with a lot of what @Machinehead said last season, I don't believe I have disagreed with him at all this year. He hasn't been wrong on anything.

I’m taking some credit for this. He’s been a very good student.

 

[Machinehead]

I’m taking some credit for this. He’s been a very good student.

You deserve some credit. You and @Edge explained the plan in a way that made sense.

 

[Ghost of jas]

You deserve some credit. You and @Edge explained the plan in a way that made sense.

To be honest, you’re handling the rebuild a lot better than some of the posters who were in favor of it. And, you’re far more entertaining.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

We got him for nothing. Undrafted. U wanna just throw him away?

He’s has some potential and we can use him as currency for... whatever. You found 5$ on the street. Yeah it’s not 100$ but that doesn’t mean u just throw it away because of that fact.

Meh, that analogy would suggest that Pionk has positive value.

I think lately a more apt analogy would be that we thought we saw 5 dollars on the ground so we bent down to pick it up and then our wallet fell out of our pocket into a sewer.

My big problem with Pionk isn't necessarily him as a player, although I do think it's looking increasingly like he's not a legit NHLer and his lack of progress and (maybe even regression) is concerning to say the least, but more with his usage and the fact that I think the organization sees him as a core piece and overvalues him. He should be viewed as a sheltered 3rd pairing role with PP2 time guy at best, but he's being treated like an all situations, minutes eating, shutdown, two way guy. He is not even remotely close to that and it's not like he's growing into that role. The kid looks increasingly over matched and has gotten worse as the season has worn on and keeps making the same mistakes and mental errors as well as continually failing to win battles in the D zone.

I see a good skating but not particularly high hockey IQ but still offensively inclined D man who is a liability in his own zone. He looks like he's trying real hard while losing every battle and conceding too much ice and being in poor position but I don't see any progress in his game. Even his offense, I see a player who can rush the puck up but not move the puck effectively, often hesitating or missing passes when moving the puck up the ice, frequent icings at worst and passes in skates preventing players from receiving in stride being his best case scenario often times.



I haven't shut the book on the player, but I can't say I'm a fan at all. And the constant heavy and tough usage is only hurting him at this point in my opinion.

 

[Machinehead]

To be honest, you’re handling the rebuild a lot better than some of the posters who were in favor of it. And, you’re far more entertaining.

 

[Machinehead]

Kreider and Zibanjead help.

They make us a great team for 18 minutes.

 

[Kovalev27]

So it definitely appears duchene is holding things up a bit. I personally think he gets resigned. If that happens the bidding war for Kevin Hayes goes thru the roof. I don’t think we see movement on Hayes until duchene situation is figured out. Although I do believe Boston’s first choice is Hayes regardless of duchene.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Nothing wrong with the Skjei deal, it’s just another scapegoat the people love to abuse on these boards. For a guy who is a top pairing defenseman for the Rangers (and I know he is not that on any other team), how is that dollar figure a terrible deal? Some people just like to point fingers at just about anything.

As a Skjei fan who fully supported his extension, I gotta disagree with you here. He's not just another scapegoat. The people criticizing him have valid reasons for doing so.

The one thing that's disappointed me is his lack of development thus far. Look at Brady his rookie year. Not the points, but his overall game. Compare him to now. Are you seeing a player that has addressed some of his weaknesses? Has he shown significant improvement in any area of his game? I don't and that's what I'm a little concerned with.

I wouldn't move him for just anything like some people here, but I certainly wouldn't label him as untouchable. The thing for me is, as a rebuilding team, we have the luxury of some time with Skjei. However, if the right deal was there, I wouldn't hesitate moving him.

Just for some food for though - What does Skjei, Buch, and our 2nd get us on draft day....?

 

[Kovalev27]

Meh, that analogy would suggest that Pionk has positive value.

I think lately a more apt analogy would be that we thought we saw 5 dollars on the ground so we bent down to pick it up and then our wallet fell out of our pocket into a sewer.

This was amazing lol

 

[Ghost of jas]

As a Skjei fan who fully supported his extension, I gotta disagree with you here. He's not just another scapegoat. The people criticizing him had valid reasons for doing so.

The one thing that's disappointed me is his lack of development thus far. Look at Brady his rookie year. Not the points, but his overall game. Compare him to now. Are you seeing a player that has addressed some of his weaknesses? Has he shown significant improvement in any area of his game? I don't and that's what I'm a little concerned with.

I wouldn't move him for just anything like some people here, but I certainly wouldn't label him as untouchable. The thing for me is, as a rebuilding team, we have the luxury of some time with Skjei. However, if the right deal was there, I wouldn't hesitate moving him.

Just for some food for though - What does Skjei, Buch, and our 2nd get us on draft day....?

If they were Canadiens, any player that’s been available since HF Boards has existed.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

If they were Canadiens, any player that’s been available since HF Boards has existed.

You leave Ryder, Halak and a 2nd out of this!

 

[Thirty One]

Rangers hand out bridge contracts: "We need to be more like Nashville. They are in this position because they sign their players long-term at a lower cap hit. It's risky, but sometimes you have to take a risk"
Rangers give Skjei a long-term deal: "Why did we sign Skjei long-term? This is a bad contract!"

Yeah, the "don't bridge anyone" angle is almost a meme now. Yes, it makes sense when you're protecting against both cap inflation and the player progressing to another echelon beyond the pay grade you're giving him. If we're talking about a Roman Josi or a Filip Forsberg, yes, that's the play. But we're talking about Brady Skjei. If you think he has the same kind of upside, we're watching different players. And if you think his NHL career to date has eliminated any doubt that the player he will settle into is definitely above his current salary, again we're seeing different things. The Brady Skjei I'm seeing has a pretty clear ceiling but an uncertain floor.

People love to romanticize the six-year post ELC contract as if it's a riskless proposition. As if Olesz, Barker, Hodgson etc. never happened. Somewhere there's someone advocating locking Letteri up until 2026-27 this summer.

I think the contract will likely turn out to be fine, or at least in that realm. But the risk/reward of it is all off to me.

Dumba put up the numbers on a better team, playing a lot more in an offensive role. Skjei has played 1 season with the team while they were actually a play off team. Both Dumba and Skjei are 2nd pair D-men

I guess this should be the point where we examine why Dumba has been able to carve out a bigger role on a far better team?

 

[East Coast Bias]

As someone who completely disagreed with a lot of what @Machinehead said last season, I don't believe I have disagreed with him at all this year. He hasn't been wrong on anything.

Oh I'm only kidding. The Franson thing wasn't even him, anyway. That was Silverfish.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Yeah, the "don't bridge anyone" angle is almost a meme now. Yes, it makes sense when you're protecting against both cap inflation and the player progressing to another echelon beyond the pay grade you're giving him. If we're talking about a Roman Josi or a Filip Forsberg, yes, that's the play. But we're talking about Brady Skjei. If you think he has the same kind of upside, we're watching different players. And if you think his NHL career to date has eliminated any doubt that the player he will settle into is definitely above his current salary, again we're seeing different things. The Brady Skjei I'm seeing has a pretty clear ceiling but an uncertain floor.

People love to romanticize the six-year post ELC contract as if it's a riskless proposition. As if Olesz, Barker, Hodgson etc. never happened. Somewhere there's someone advocating locking Letteri up until 2026-27 this summer.

I think the contract will likely turn out to be fine, or at least in that realm. But the risk/reward of it is all off to me.

This is perfect. And I’ll go a step further...know your player. Someone like Chytil is someone I’d be worrying about ‘exploding or taking off’ during a contract. After a year where much of the season was regression, the evidence was there that Skjei might not be that type of player.

 

[Blueblood9]

Ive said it before and ill repeat it here.

Would not be surprised if GMJG tries to accelerate the rebuild in free agency. Its his M.O. its following the same route boston took circa 2005-2007. AGM when the bruins traded thornton and samsinov in 2005/06 ish. Signed Chara and Savard 06. drafted Kessel Lucic and Marchand-06.

To equate:
Rangers trade McD/Miller
Draft Kravtsov/Miller/Lundkvist
if the comparison were to hold rangers sign breadman and karlsson this offseason.

Only difference being that the rangers are doing this with alot more 1st round picks and seem to have restocked the system better. I believe that Howden/Rykov/Hajek/Lindgren are better then any prospect not named Raask aquired in a trade. Still dont know if weve aquired a player at the Bergeron/Marchand/Chara/Krecji level that is needed.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Ive said it before and ill repeat it here.

Would not be surprised if GMJG tries to accelerate the rebuild in free agency. Its his M.O. its following the same route boston took circa 2005-2007. AGM when the bruins traded thornton and samsinov in 2005/06 ish. Signed Chara and Savard 06. drafted Kessel Lucic and Marchand-06.

To equate:
Rangers trade McD/Miller
Draft Kravtsov/Miller/Lundkvist
if the comparison were to hold rangers sign breadman and karlsson this offseason.

Only difference being that the rangers are doing this with alot more 1st round picks and seem to have restocked the system better. I believe that Howden/Rykov/Hajek/Lindgren are better then any prospect not named Raask aquired in a trade. Still dont know if weve aquired a player at the Bergeron/Marchand/Chara/Krecji level that is needed.

Chara was what really helped. If they missed out on signing him, I think the rebuild would have had different results.

If we had the opportunity of signing a Chara in his prime this offseason, it would impact the development of our team a lot more than a Panarin or Stone.

 

[Thirty One]

Have we had a year to evaluate Skjei?

Depends on when we're starting the clock, but I think you're missing the point.

You point to his cheap potential buy-out this summer as a reason why the contract is essentially riskless. His buy-out is cheap this summer because his age qualifies him for the 1/3 buy out rate, something you with your vast knowledge of the CBA, is obviously aware. Past this summer, it will go up to the normal 2/3. So your selling point about the lack of risk on the contract is that the Rangers have the luxury of deciding after year one of the six year contract to cut bait and lock themselves into a ten-year cap hit at only modest charge. That's not even advantageous even for Larry Brooks to call it circumvention.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

 

[Trxjw]

Ive said it before and ill repeat it here.

Would not be surprised if GMJG tries to accelerate the rebuild in free agency. Its his M.O. its following the same route boston took circa 2005-2007. AGM when the bruins traded thornton and samsinov in 2005/06 ish. Signed Chara and Savard 06. drafted Kessel Lucic and Marchand-06.

To equate:
Rangers trade McD/Miller
Draft Kravtsov/Miller/Lundkvist
if the comparison were to hold rangers sign breadman and karlsson this offseason.

Only difference being that the rangers are doing this with alot more 1st round picks and seem to have restocked the system better. I believe that Howden/Rykov/Hajek/Lindgren are better then any prospect not named Raask aquired in a trade. Still dont know if weve aquired a player at the Bergeron/Marchand/Chara/Krecji level that is needed.

I don't necessarily agree with the premise but that's certainly an interesting comparison to draw.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Oh I'm only kidding. The Franson thing wasn't even him, anyway. That was Silverfish.

 

[Mike in Houston]

Looks like Pionk is headed to the Quinn Bin. He's skating with Claesson at practice. I'm sure many of you are overjoyed at the news.

 

[wafflepadsave]

As someone who completely disagreed with a lot of what @Machinehead said last season, I don't believe I have disagreed with him at all this year. He hasn't been wrong on anything.

You mean he’s living up to his contract?