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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXV - Time to say Goodbye

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Amazing Kreiderman said:
Skjei signing long-term at 6.6% very similar to Orlov, Theodore. I think those are good comparables for Skjei and probably why he got what was given to him.

Skjei: 3 RFA, 3 UFA
Orlov: 2 RFA, 4 UFA
Theodore: 5 RFA, 2 UFA
Hanifin: 4 RFA, 2 UFA
Gostisbehere: 5 RFA, 1 UFA

It's difficult to find exact comparisons due to age difference and RFA/UFA splits but I think 5.25m AAV is good value for a player like Brady Skjei. The Rangers took a risk. The alternative would be a 3.5m AAV for 2 more seasons, and then giving him a 7m AAV in 2020 long-term with only 1 RFA year to buy out, a higher salary cap etc. Now we have Skjei for 5.25m until 2024.
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No way Skjei was ever going to get $7M in 2020, that's preposterous. His 39 point season was an anomaly (as I briefly explained in the earlier post), he's never shown that kind of offensive upside before or after that season.

Skjei was excellent in 2017-18 but even if he kept up that level of play (which he is extremely far off so far this season) throughout his bridge deal he'd be looking at an $5.5-$5.7M AAV on his next deal at the very most. Especially considering he still got PP time in 2017-18 and he isn't going to get more than a handful of PP minutes in 2018-19 nor in 2019-20 because he just isn't a good PP player.

If he continues his 2018-19 level of play in 2019-20 we would probably have been able to extend Skjei below a $4M AAV come 2020.
 
Blue Blooded said:
No way Skjei was ever going to get $7M in 2020, that's preposterous. His 39 point season was an anomaly (as I briefly explained in the earlier post), he's never shown that kind of offensive upside before or after that season.

Skjei was excellent in 2017-18 but even if he kept up that level of play (which he is extremely far off so far this season) throughout his bridge deal he'd be looking at an $5.5-$5.7M AAV on his next deal at the very most. Especially considering he still got PP time in 2017-18 and he isn't going to get more than a handful of PP minutes in 2018-19 nor in 2019-20 because he just isn't a good PP player.

If he continues his 2018-19 level of play in 2019-20 we would probably have been able to extend Skjei below a $4M AAV come 2020.
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In 2 years, with another expansion, the cap will be close to 90m. A 7m AAV would come down to 7.7% with just 1 RFA year to buy out.
 
Blue Blooded said:
Dumba scored 34 in 76 in 2016-17, 50 in 82 in 2018-19 and has 22 in 32 this year (56 point pace). Not what I'd call a 20-25 point 2nd pairing defenceman.
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Dumba put up the numbers on a better team, playing a lot more in an offensive role. Skjei has played 1 season with the team while they were actually a play off team. Both Dumba and Skjei are 2nd pair D-men
 
I believe the point is that Skjei was never going to have an offensive role here so his salary would never get that boost from being an offensive defenseman. The second they traded for Shattenkirk, already had DeAngelo, and "found" Pionk that pretty much ended all chances for Skjei ever seeing any/good PP time. He had one good offensive year, that he never showed at previous levels, where he had a ton of secondary assists. Dumba is a guy who was a big time scorer in junior and the AHL.
 
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The Rangers were fooled by Skjei’s rookie season into believing he was McDonagh’s successor. But, the problem was they had the evidence of his sophomore season for that to not be the case, but ignored that evidence.
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
Dumba put up the numbers on a better team, playing a lot more in an offensive role. Skjei has played 1 season with the team while they were actually a play off team. Both Dumba and Skjei are 2nd pair D-men
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Right, but we're talking about what kind of contracts players are being signed to and defencemen only get to the really high amounts if they put up points or play ridiculous minutes (which you're not doing if you're on the 2nd pairing). Also, the reason Dumba gets the more offensive role is because he has a lot more offensive talent than Skjei. Skjei wouldn't touch Dumba's numbers in the same role.

But fine, let's assume Skjei demanded $7M in the summer of 2020. Then you trade his rights (he's still an RFA at that point) to someone who wants to deal with that mess.
 
SA16 said:
I believe the point is that Skjei was never going to have an offensive role here so his salary would never get that boost from being an offensive defenseman. The second they traded for Shattenkirk, already had DeAngelo, and "found" Pionk that pretty much ended all chances for Skjei ever seeing any/good PP time. He had one good offensive year, that he never showed at previous levels, where he had a ton of secondary assists. Dumba is a guy who was a big time scorer in junior and the AHL.
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Can we put Pionk back where we found him please?
 
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Blue Blooded said:
Right, but we're talking about what kind of contracts players are being signed to and defencemen only get to the really high amounts if they put up points or play ridiculous minutes (which you're not doing if you're on the 2nd pairing). Also, the reason Dumba gets the more offensive role is because he has a lot more offensive talent than Skjei. Skjei wouldn't touch Dumba's numbers in the same role.

But fine, let's assume Skjei demanded $7M in the summer of 2020. Then you trade his rights (he's still an RFA at that point) to someone who wants to deal with that mess.
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Sure, but in the case you're trying to make, Skjei would only have 1 RFA year left in 2020, where Dumba had 3 RFA years left in 2018. That brings down Dumba's AAV
 
The Skjei contract was basically the McDonagh contract all over again, with a bit shaved off because Skjei is the inferior player.

McDonagh - July 8th, 2013 - 6 years - 7.31% of cap ceiling
Skjei - July 28th, 2018 - 6 years - 6.6% of cap ceiling

Management was hoping the deal would turn out similarly. They've been wrong thus far, and in hindsight, he should have been bridged. But this contract isn't some terrible albatross.

Also, it's easy to see the rationale behind the deal. The Rangers are a rebuilding team. They're more than likely not going to be a cap team the next couple seasons. If you think there's a decent chance Skjei gets higher than $5.25M AAV on his next contract if you bridge him, then it's fine to overpay when you have the spare cap room to do so now, in order to mitigate the risk to the cap later.
 
What Door said:
The Skjei contract was basically the McDonagh contract all over again, with a bit shaved off because Skjei is the inferior player.

McDonagh - July 8th, 2013 - 6 years - 7.31% of cap ceiling
Skjei - July 28th, 2018 - 6 years - 6.6% of cap ceiling

Management was hoping the deal would turn out similarly. They've been wrong thus far, and in hindsight, he should have been bridged. But this contract isn't some terrible albatross.

Also, it's easy to see the rationale behind the deal. The Rangers are a rebuilding team. They're more than likely not going to be a cap team the next couple seasons. If you think there's a decent chance Skjei gets higher than $5.25M AAV on his next contract if you bridge him, then it's fine to overpay when you have the spare cap room to do so now, in order to mitigate the risk to the cap later.
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McDonagh had 161 games (including 32 playoff games) as the 1D on a top team in the league on his CV when he signed his extension.

Brady Skjei had a high scoring season in a sheltered role on a middling team and one season of playing on a 1B pairing on a terrible team on his CV when he signed his.

The contracts were similar, the players they were given to were not.

E: I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying the Rangers FO were.
 
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The Rangers should find some gullible team and trade them Pionk.

Does LA want him?

The Kings will get another look at Neal Pionk, signed by the Rangers during the 2017 off-season while L.A. had embers in a ton of fires – Alex Iafallo, Oscar Fantenberg, Cal Petersen, Will Butcher and Pionk, to name several.

“There were a few options. It was a hard decision,” said Pionk, a right-shot defenseman who has five goals and 20 points while averaging nearly 22 and a half minutes for New York this season. “It was splitting hairs at the end of the day, but I’m happy I picked the Rangers, and I’m happy I’m here.”
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February 4: Pionk's decision; injury updates; Martinez-Fantenberg pairing - LA Kings Insider

Probably means nothing but Rangers GM Jeff Gorton was up on The Bridge, in L.A. GM Rob Blake’s suite, between periods.
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Top line has been lifeline for listing Rangers
 
Kovalev27 said:
Can we put Pionk back where we found him please?
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We got him for nothing. Undrafted. U wanna just throw him away?

He’s has some potential and we can use him as currency for... whatever. You found 5$ on the street. Yeah it’s not 100$ but that doesn’t mean u just throw it away because of that fact.
 
Riche16 said:
We got him for nothing. Undrafted. U wanna just throw him away?

He’s has some potential and we can use him as currency for... whatever. You found 5$ on the street. Yeah it’s not 100$ but that doesn’t mean u just throw it away because of that fact.
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Hopefully, the Rangers do not have an inflated opinion of him like they did with Skjei. DeAngelo is clearly the more talented player. And both Lundkvist and Keane have higher upsides. He’s just not someone who is essential to this rebuild, and if he helps you get a better player as part of a package, he should be made available.

I do fear the Rangers viewing him through the same lens that they did Skjei.
 
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Riche16 said:
We got him for nothing. Undrafted. U wanna just throw him away?

He’s has some potential and we can use him as currency for... whatever. You found 5$ on the street. Yeah it’s not 100$ but that doesn’t mean u just throw it away because of that fact.
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I mean this sincerely. I would happily give him away for free
 
jas said:
Hopefully, the Rangers do not have an inflated opinion of him like they did with Skjei. DeAngelo is clearly the more talented player. And both Lundkvist and Keane have higher upsides. He’s just not someone who is essential to this rebuild, and if he helps you get a better player as part of a package, he should be made available.

I do fear the Rangers viewing him through the same lens that they did Skjei.
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And here’s why I want him gone. I don’t trust management here. They think he’s a future star and are playing him over the actual future star. Idiots that they are.
 
I think we're exaggerating Skjei's play this season. He is still really young and put it upon himself to try and fill McD shoes immediately and on an awful defense. He tried to do everything when he cant. Over time and with some improvements on D he will grow into a higher caliber player than he is now. I think unless we draft Byram, he will be a top-4 dman on this team for his entire career and rightfully so.
 
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jas said:
Hopefully, the Rangers do not have an inflated opinion of him like they did with Skjei. DeAngelo is clearly the more talented player. And both Lundkvist and Keane have higher upsides. He’s just not someone who is essential to this rebuild, and if he helps you get a better player as part of a package, he should be made available.

I do fear the Rangers viewing him through the same lens that they did Skjei.
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Fair. But until they prove that I don’t see the issue.

I honestly wonder how many of these decisions on players actually take tanking a bit into account.

More of a “let’s see what this kid does.” Or “Lets increase HIS trade value” etc.

Again, if Quinn was going to ice the best lineup he has already said he would play Buch and ADA all the time. He knows his job is to develop. Pionk May be getting time because that’s good for HIS specific development... not necessarily because it will win is games.
 
The revisionist history/looking at things in hindsight around here is astounding sometimes.

Go read the Skjei signing thread. Like 90% of people in it think it was a fair deal at the time. Even most people advocating for a bridge deal think it was fair for both sides.

Does it not look great now? Sure, but at the time it was certainly fair. Most people likely didn't expect a sophomore slump to continue into the third year (which is a fair assumption to make)

Confirmed with Link: - Brady Skjei re-signed [6 years, $5.25MM AAV]
 
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