Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXV - Time to say Goodbye

[Ola]

Damn, it seems like I stepped on some toes again. Can’t we create a warning list for which players the metric community falls for from time to time so that you would know which names to never mention? Or better yet, threat them as curses and make it impossible to write their names.

SA16, how many Norris Trophies have Cody Fransson won again?

Sure I don’t know who Mark Stone is. There is an archive at this place, take a few names like Franson and the likes and check them. Good way of seing who knows what they are talking about and who don’t.

 

[SA16]

It’s basically impossible for a dman to “explode” without significant PP mins and there was no chance Skjei would get PP1 time this year and easily could have got no PP time at all.

 

[RGY]

 

[Ola]

https://nypost.com/2019/02/04/not-even-brady-skjei-feels-safe-from-rangers-trade-potential/

For all the flack Gorton gets, this contract may be the leader so far for his biggest mistake as GM.

Great contract. Zero downside in it. Skjei is struggling? Please name one young D on a tanking team that excels. All Ds on tanking teams are exposed, it’s a tough job as it is to play D in the NHL, if you do it for a crappy team it’s ‘impossible’ in a sense.

Is Skjei a worse D now than he was 2 years ago? Why?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

While I agree it isn't looking like a good deal, it happens. If we bridged Skjei and he exploded, then he would have received a ton of flack of not locking him up long term. You know what I mean?

I'm not saying JG doesn't deserve some blame but I don't believe this was a deal that was bad from the minute it was signed. Those are the deals that truly make a GM look bad. The Chiarelli-esque deals.

I didn't see the need for it, that's all - that goes for both in terms of what he showed his first couple of seasons and the thinking that the Rangers weren't exactly going to be in a salary cap crunch due to the rebuild. Seems like an unforced error.

 

[Ola]

If we buyout Skjei TODAY, with 5 years left, ie unheard of, his buy out cost never exceeds 1.8m per and totals 10m over 10 years.

 

[Avery16]

https://nypost.com/2019/02/04/not-even-brady-skjei-feels-safe-from-rangers-trade-potential/

For all the flack Gorton gets, this contract may be the leader so far for his biggest mistake as GM.

Nah, Smith worse by a country mile

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Great contract. Zero downside in it. Skjei is struggling? Please name one young D on a tanking team that excels. All Ds on tanking teams are exposed, it’s a tough job as it is to play D in the NHL, if you do it for a crappy team it’s ‘impossible’ in a sense.

Is Skjei a worse D now than he was 2 years ago? Why?

He should be on a bridge deal right now proving his worth like nearly all the other young players. Great contract? My ass. Not now anyways, and maybe not ever.

 

[Thirty One]

If we buyout Skjei TODAY, with 5 years left, ie unheard of, his buy out cost never exceeds 1.8m per and totals 10m over 10 years.

Is this an argument in the contract's favor?

 

[Griffinbw]

Posturing?

 

[Avery16]

Lol. I love Florida! Please, please don’t send me back to Torts!

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Nah, Smith worse by a country mile

Maybe. By a country mile? I don't think so. Smith was a veteran player who sabotaged himself after proving a valuable commodity down the stretch and in the playoffs for the Rangers. He was also an UFA.

Skjei was coming off a questionable season, a RFA, and the Rangers just sort of handed him that deal and Im not entirely sure why. The best explanation I can come up with is they wanted to send a message that they were investing in their younger players and he was the most promising of the bunch - what a bad reason to hand over a long-term deal when you don't have to.

As for the porous argument that Skjei's play has deteriorated while on a worse team - sure. But that's the type of deal you give to a guy who is going to be a cornerstone for resurrecting the team. He's been anything but that for a season and a half now.

 

[pld459666]

Absolutely no way to know that because you don't know who they would have drafted or spent the 8M on.

But we do know.

What has Philly done with the assets they didnt part with in exchange for Weber??

Who has been the better team since the signing and matching g of the offer?

Go back to the Fedorov offer sheet that he signed with Carolina.

The Wings also remained the better team long after that failed attempt as well.

While the sample sizes are small, they do start to set a trend that has not been shown to be an anomaly

 

[Ola]

Stone has averaged .87 PPG since 2014. He’s been a PPG player over the last two years playing on a terrible Sens team. Stone is anything but an average hockey player.

And Kreider isn’t just, ok in front of the net. He’s one of the very best in the world.

C’mon Ola....

I said other than as a scorer, he is an average hockey player. Big difference. Remove the net and make the game about hanging on to the puck, Mark Stone won’t go that high in draft in which all players are available...

But one thing, a destination MUST be made between scorers and guys are contribute more down low and set up there teammates. Like a Brandon Pirri is a good scorer. But why doesn’t he even get a job in this league? 31 teams looking for scorers. It’s simple, for the four guys playing with him, it’s too much like playing 4 on 5 when he isn’t scoring. He isn’t of much help to the 4 guys on the ice with him — in comparison to the average NHLer.

Not to take anything away from Stone, just saying that he needs that big scoring role.

 

[Ola]

Is this an argument in the contract's favor?

Is it the worst contract we ever signed? It’s basically totally risk free.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Is it the worst contract we ever signed? It’s basically totally risk free.

Are you high fiving yourself for that comeback about it not being the worst contract the Rangers have ever given? Sick burn.

Ya know what would've been actually risk free? A 2 year bridge deal.

 

[Thirty One]

Is it the worst contract we ever signed? It’s basically totally risk free.

I don't think that a cheap (but not free) buy-out option that's available for a very short time and not within a reasonable evaluation time period makes the contract basically totally risk free.

No I don't (nor does anyone else) think it's the worst contract we ever signed.

 

[Ola]

He should be on a bridge deal right now proving his worth like nearly all the other young players. Great contract? My ass. Not now anyways, and maybe not ever.

The only way you ever are going to contend in this league is if you can lock up young players on long term deals that become better with time. Hence it was the right call. When you bridge a player, why should he sign a long contract? He can get to UFA in no time. I would never sign a modest 6 year deal after a 3 year ELC and a 2 year bridge.

I don’t think you understand how the CBA works.

31- worst contract we ever signed — under Gorton. Srry, my mistake. What is a reasonable evaluation time BTW?

 

[Ola]

Are you high fiving yourself for that comeback about it not being the worst contract the Rangers have ever given? Sick burn.

Ya know what would've been actually risk free? A 2 year bridge deal.

There are some good sites with basic info on the CBA, just google for them.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The only way you ever are going to contend in this league is if you can lock up young players on long term deals that become better with time. Hence it was the right call. When you bridge a player, why should he sign a long contract? He can get to UFA in no time. I would never sign a modest 6 year deal after a 3 year ELC and a 2 year bridge.

I don’t think you understand how the CBA works.

31- worst contract we ever signed — under Gorton. Srry, my mistake.

Thanks for the unneeded tutorial that pretty much completely ignores Skjei's level of play in relation to his gift of a contract. My whole point is, if you're going to give a young player that kind of deal, we should all be more certain that he'll eventually live up to it than we are now.

 

[SA16]

But we do know.

What has Philly done with the assets they didnt part with in exchange for Weber??

Who has been the better team since the signing and matching g of the offer?

Go back to the Fedorov offer sheet that he signed with Carolina.

The Wings also remained the better team long after that failed attempt as well.

While the sample sizes are small, they do start to set a trend that has not been shown to be an anomaly

Sample size of 2 one of which was 20 years ago in an older CBA that had no salary cap.

Additionally who was the "better team" tells you nothing. Weber is one guy on a team of 18.

There is no trend.

Four first round picks cannot be too low of compensation when at the same time have we ever seen a trade of one player for first round picks? Don't think so and if it was it certainly wasn't recent.

 

[Thirty One]

31- worst contract we ever signed — under Gorton. Srry, my mistake. What is a reasonable evaluation time BTW?

Not one year, that's for sure. The 1/3 buyout wouldn't be available after this summer, so pretty irrelevant.

 

[DanielBrassard]

https://nypost.com/2019/02/04/not-even-brady-skjei-feels-safe-from-rangers-trade-potential/

For all the flack Gorton gets, this contract may be the leader so far for his biggest mistake as GM.

It's not like anyone saw this coming. Another beautiful contract from the FO of the Rangers.

 

[Thirty One]

Thanks for the unneeded tutorial that pretty much completely ignores Skjei's level of play in relation to his gift of a contract. My whole point is, if you're going to give a young player that kind of deal, we should all be more certain that he'll eventually live up to it than we are now.

There's risk and reward, for sure. But people talking about protecting ourselves in case Skjei becomes a star... that's like locking your cupboards in fear that your Ritz crackers will become mountain lions.

 

[leetch99]

I know it would never happen ...but Lundqvist would likely be a better option for Florida then Bob at this point and likely could hold down the fort until they develop one of their own . I would not give Bob a long lengthy deal if I were Florida .