Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXV - Time to say Goodbye
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Tawnos
A guy with a bass
Literally dying right now
Should probably go to the hospital.
- Oct 23, 2014
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- Nov 7, 2017
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Looks like we’re getting a lot of snow
lol...perhaps some experts should explain what those paintings actually show.
Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
If you need heatmaps explained to you...wew.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I completely agree and was thinking about over the years I've been a fan, going back to when I was a kid.
It's not to say that certain players couldn't come to New York and have an impact. But I think we need to also take into consideration that some numbers are going to be inflated --- both with guys we're eyeing, and with guys we may have traded.
DutchShamrock
Registered User
They said it would last a lifetime and they meant it.
Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
I have no problem with Stone, but lol why are we comparing Kreider with him? Or Duchene? 
They are more or less — totally — different players. Stone is a finisher who’s game is all about being the guy that his two linemates put in a position to score. Good shot and goes to the net well. Definitely a pretty average hockey player overall. Hart Trophy? Lol
Kreider is a complimentary winger, drives up and down his side of the ice, tough to contain for Ds. OK infront of the net. Good around the boards and definitely OK with the puck. Covers a lot of ice with his engine.
Stone can’t play the role Kreider can and Kreider can’t play the role Stone can. Stone would be an awful fit with a center like Tavares. Eichel. And so forth. Guys who plays their best when they have wingers that can get the puck to them, not vice versa. Kreider would be very good with those two. Stone can be the shooter for his team, the one all players turns to get the puck too. Imagine Kreider in that role? Have anyone ever seen Kreider one time a slapper?
This is the problem I have with metrics. The ‘Let’s compare Duchene, Stone and Kreiders value as rentals by looking at shoot maps from all three’. You know what, it kinda depends on what your team needs.
Like let’s look at our 2014 team.
Scenario 1: Who would you take of the above 3 on our Cup finals team? Of course we could have used Stone, but without Kreider we don’t have that line that could get the toughest minutes there is and still come out of it corsi positive in Kreider-Step-Nash. You could — definitely — argue that Kreider was more valuable for us than Stone and Duchene would have been.
Scenario 2: Brassard breaks a leg 1 week before the deadline in 14. Who do you take Kreider, Duchene or Stone?
Scenario 3: Laine breaks a leg the coming days. Winnipeg can get either Stone, Kreider or Duchene. Hm wonder who they totally would zero in on.
Metrics can be great but the context matters helluva lot too.
They are more or less — totally — different players. Stone is a finisher who’s game is all about being the guy that his two linemates put in a position to score. Good shot and goes to the net well. Definitely a pretty average hockey player overall. Hart Trophy? Lol
Kreider is a complimentary winger, drives up and down his side of the ice, tough to contain for Ds. OK infront of the net. Good around the boards and definitely OK with the puck. Covers a lot of ice with his engine.
Stone can’t play the role Kreider can and Kreider can’t play the role Stone can. Stone would be an awful fit with a center like Tavares. Eichel. And so forth. Guys who plays their best when they have wingers that can get the puck to them, not vice versa. Kreider would be very good with those two. Stone can be the shooter for his team, the one all players turns to get the puck too. Imagine Kreider in that role? Have anyone ever seen Kreider one time a slapper?
This is the problem I have with metrics. The ‘Let’s compare Duchene, Stone and Kreiders value as rentals by looking at shoot maps from all three’. You know what, it kinda depends on what your team needs.
Like let’s look at our 2014 team.
Scenario 1: Who would you take of the above 3 on our Cup finals team? Of course we could have used Stone, but without Kreider we don’t have that line that could get the toughest minutes there is and still come out of it corsi positive in Kreider-Step-Nash. You could — definitely — argue that Kreider was more valuable for us than Stone and Duchene would have been.
Scenario 2: Brassard breaks a leg 1 week before the deadline in 14. Who do you take Kreider, Duchene or Stone?
Scenario 3: Laine breaks a leg the coming days. Winnipeg can get either Stone, Kreider or Duchene. Hm wonder who they totally would zero in on.
Metrics can be great but the context matters helluva lot too.
JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
Twenty f*ckin years
- Oct 8, 2010
- 80,076
- 17,715
Stone has averaged .87 PPG since 2014. He’s been a PPG player over the last two years playing on a terrible Sens team. Stone is anything but an average hockey player.
And Kreider isn’t just, ok in front of the net. He’s one of the very best in the world.
C’mon Ola....
https://nypost.com/2019/02/04/not-even-brady-skjei-feels-safe-from-rangers-trade-potential/
For all the flack Gorton gets, this contract may be the leader so far for his biggest mistake as GM.
For all the flack Gorton gets, this contract may be the leader so far for his biggest mistake as GM.
Agreed, but he’s also a consistent 20+ goal scorer so he’s not as one dimensional offensively as someone like Zucc. I think Stone breaks 30 this year too.
JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
Twenty f*ckin years
- Oct 8, 2010
- 80,076
- 17,715
He's a tremendous all around player, an absolute stud. He's going to get paiiiiiiiiiid
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
While I agree it isn't looking like a good deal, it happens. If we bridged Skjei and he exploded, then he would have received a ton of flack of not locking him up long term. You know what I mean?
I'm not saying JG doesn't deserve some blame but I don't believe this was a deal that was bad from the minute it was signed. Those are the deals that truly make a GM look bad. The Chiarelli-esque deals.
pld459666
Registered User
Ratelleitlikeitis
Registered User
In response to Ola's question... Have anyone ever seen Kreider one time a slapper?
I remember his rookie year I believe in the Eastern semi Game 1, April 28, 2012 vs Holtby. Buried it just over the blue line. Man I thought he was going to do that all the time.
I remember his rookie year I believe in the Eastern semi Game 1, April 28, 2012 vs Holtby. Buried it just over the blue line. Man I thought he was going to do that all the time.
SA16
Sixstring
Absolutely no way to know that because you don't know who they would have drafted or spent the 8M on.
SA16
Sixstring
In other news we just learned that Ola has no idea who Mark Stone is.
effen
Registered User
- Jun 27, 2003
- 12,754
- 10,974
Skjei is who the scouting reports thought he was. Great skater, ok strength, ok defensively, above average at lugging the puck, poor offensive instincts and so-so puck/shot skills. Brett Hedican 2.0.
He's overpaid by like 1M/yr which isn't great but isn't a death sentence. On pace for 25 points which is about right. He's ~fine and nothing more.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
- 28,981
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When the contract was signed I heard a lot of the possibility of Brady Skjei exploding, which made me wonder if there were two players by that name. I just don't see that in Skjei.
Oh absolutely. He might not produce at the same rate as someone like Panarin, but he’s a better two way player.
One of my favorite players in the league.
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