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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXV - Time to say Goodbye

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haveandare said:
Well yeah but if we’re going to use outcomes that require luck rather than making a conscious decision, we can just say picking 1OA this year and next would speed up the rebuild.

Of course finishing low would help but the players aren’t going to go out to try to lose and the coaches would let them even if they wanted to. There are more than 3 awful teams in this league.
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Take Zucc and Hayes off this team and they're as bad as anyone.

The Rangers are currently getting career years from half of their top 6 and have been pretty lucky along the way, yet they still sit in 8th (virtual tie for 6)

Unless what we're seeing from Zibanejad and Kreider are the new normal, they're going to be horrendous next season should they stay away from UFA's. Even if they land Hughes.
 
ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
Take Zucc and Hayes off this team and they're as bad as anyone.

The Rangers are currently getting career years from half of their top 6 and have been pretty lucky along the way, yet they still sit in 8th (virtual tie for 6)

Unless what we're seeing from Zibanejad and Kreider are the new normal, they're going to be horrendous next season should they stay away from UFA's. Even if they land Hughes.
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I get your logic but I think you’re drastically underselling the competing idea.

It’s completley logical that people would rather sign elite talent for free now than trade a bunch of assets for it in the future. I get why you disagree but the idea isn’t as crazy or baseless as it’s being made to sound. There’s a logic to doing the thing that is certain instead of hoping for the thing that is out of your hands.
 
If Jeff G. wait until TDL - we will continue to win games which will hurt the rebuild.

I believe both are back to normal next season @ZuccsFluffierFluffer , because in stats they are not going to keep up their current pace related to point production - (career stats). In that regard I can understand if they move one of those pieces including Hayes & Zucc.
 
haveandare said:
I get your logic but I think you’re drastically underselling the competing idea.

It’s completely logical that people would rather sign elite talent for free now than trade a bunch of assets for it in the future. I get why you disagree but the idea isn’t as crazy or baseless as it’s being made to sound. There’s a logic to doing the thing that is certain instead of hoping for the thing that is out of your hands.
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Even if they sign UFA's this off season, they aren't competing for anything other than a playoff spot and thats a soft maybe.

To me, its a sure fire way to make sure you get stuck in the middle unless you get realllly lucky along the way (i.e: landing Hank in the 7th round.) If you look at the way the teams that have actually won have done it, it hasn't been by trying to expedite a rebuild that is 1 year in by signing the biggest free agent(s) on the market. Had we been a few years into it and had a stocked system and a bunch of young guys driving things then sure, go for it - like when they signed Richards, even if that move ended up looking pretty ugly really quickly he was still a pretty big part of helping that group take that next step.

That isn't the crazy part of it though, the crazy part is the front office is considering do the trade and re-sign with Hayes and Zucc. Its like they're trying to f*** this up - and I like Hayes.
 
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I will be surprised if they don`t move Zucc for rental even u dont like the player I think u are spot on with that post @ZuccsFluffierFluffer - that`s why I mention earlier to @RangerBoy it`s no point to hurry the rebuild with a big name UFA signing, because we are not there yet concering the farm system and future draft picks.
 
RangerBoy said:
Bob’s agent is Manhattan based Paul Theofanous. He was also represented Michael Nylander. Theofanous and Sather agreed to a contract extension for Nylander in 06-07 without keeping Michael is the loop. Nylander fired Theofanous when he found out. Someone told Brooks. Probably the agent. The Rangers don’t disclose contract negotiations. Brooks reported the exact numbers and everything in the failed extension.

Columbus needs Bob to waive and the agent is in the loop. Theofanous tells Brooks.

Theofanous also represents Kravstov. Brooks has some info about Kravstov joining the Rangers when his KHL season is over a few months ago.
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Man, I love it when you bring info like this to the table.

All of us disagree sometimes regarding the direction of the team, but you are a quality contributor. Thank you.
 
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NYR Viper said:
Would anyone trade Brendan Smith + Mat Beleskey for Brandon Dubinsky?
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Thats a tough one.

I love Dubi, wanted him to stay. With that said, i think he's cooked! 2 more years after this one. Makes sense to move out Smith's contract as there are others that can play over him but i think Smith might actually have trade value next season when there is one more year left.
 
Avery16 said:
I don’t think anyone would trade for Smith period. He cleared waivers last season.
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Dubi has had a few rough seasons

Here's why I would seriously consider it:
I think Dubi would be a good guy to have around in the room, he plays hard, and he can fill a role as a depth forward and PKer for the next couple of years. The Rangers really don't have a spot for Smith.

In saying that, Columbus saves a boatload of real money and if they keep Beleskey in the minors, they also save a bit on the cap. More in the 2nd year as Beleskey is gone.

Just a thought
 
Rangers dropped the ball a little for the 25th anniversary night which is Friday the 8th. Now i'm certain that they will do a great job with the presentation, and it will be a special night with the entire team present, minus Karpotsov of course. The one thing the dropped the ball on. The cup won't be there. Don;t ask me how i know. So prior to they will do a little segment with the cup and a few players, to make it look like it was in the house, but...It's not. Cup will be up in Canada that day elsewhere. That would have been amazing seeing Mess and company with it on the ice. Rangers always do an amazing job with these tributes however so im sure it will be a really good night.
 
Avery16 said:
I don’t think anyone would trade for Smith period. He cleared waivers last season.
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Clearing waivers doesn't mean he can't be traded. It's actually fairly common for players to be waived, clear and then be traded. No one is going to add Smith to their roster at 4.35 mil, but if the Rangers retain and/or take back a bad contract, it's possible.
 
ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
Even if they sign UFA's this off season, they aren't competing for anything other than a playoff spot and thats a soft maybe.

To me, its a sure fire way to make sure you get stuck in the middle unless you get realllly lucky along the way (i.e: landing Hank in the 7th round.) If you look at the way the teams that have actually won have done it, it hasn't been by trying to expedite a rebuild that is 1 year in by signing the biggest free agent(s) on the market. Had we been a few years into it and had a stocked system and a bunch of young guys driving things then sure, go for it - like when they signed Richards, even if that move ended up looking pretty ugly really quickly he was still a pretty big part of helping that group take that next step.

That isn't the crazy part of it though, the crazy part is the front office is considering do the trade and re-sign with Hayes and Zucc. Its like they're trying to **** this up - and I like Hayes.
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If I understand correctly, most people don't want them to sign Panarin to win next year or even make the playoffs - most want it just because it's a semi-rare chance to get an elite talent with comparatively little NHL mileage on him for nothing but money. Yeah, there are UFAs every year but it's pretty rare to have them be ppg players with ~300 NHL games to their name. Yes, he played in the KHL previously but it's big ice, less physical, and shorter seasons. If Panarin for whatever reason is okay coming here knowing it'll be the Panarin show for a year or two or three before the rest of the team fills out and it's time to push for something real, I'm not yet totally convinced that it's a bad idea.

You don't have to get Hank levels of lucky to get a great player out of the top few picks. Just in the last few years guys like Barzal, Boeser, Chabot, McAvoy, Pastrnak and Larkin were all taken mid to late first round and are looking pretty elite now. You don't need franchise player at 205OA luck to get top talent without a top 5 pick. You do need some good luck admittedly and it's not the preferable way to go about it, but it's not as long a shot as you make it sound, even if adding Panarin to this team minus Hayes an Zucc makes them a playoff bubble team which I'm not sure it would.

I'm not worried about the trade and re-sign scenario honestly. I very seriously doubt it's a real thing that is even on the table.
 
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GAGLine said:
Clearing waivers doesn't mean he can't be traded. It's actually fairly common for players to be waived, clear and then be traded. No one is going to add Smith to their roster at 4.35 mil, but if the Rangers retain and/or take back a bad contract, it's possible.
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Like Dubinsky's contract?
 
ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
In fact, they haven't even spoken with his agent.

They've had some talks with Hayes camp. Nothing with Zucc.
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I don't think you know much about that. I would be surprised if his agent hasn't been updated, if they have a plan. Oster did tweet @KvatHockey that he will not comment on contract talks, nor will Zucc.
 
GAGLine said:
Clearing waivers doesn't mean he can't be traded. It's actually fairly common for players to be waived, clear and then be traded. No one is going to add Smith to their roster at 4.35 mil, but if the Rangers retain and/or take back a bad contract, it's possible.
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But Florida seems to actually have a trade partner for Brassard. Columbus wants his contract.
 
NYR Viper said:
Dubi has had a few rough seasons

Here's why I would seriously consider it:
I think Dubi would be a good guy to have around in the room, he plays hard, and he can fill a role as a depth forward and PKer for the next couple of years. The Rangers really don't have a spot for Smith.

In saying that, Columbus saves a boatload of real money and if they keep Beleskey in the minors, they also save a bit on the cap. More in the 2nd year as Beleskey is gone.

Just a thought
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Whoops I misread, I thought you were saying Beleskey and Smith for Brassard. But the same point applies- doesn't Columbus/Torts still value Dubinsky?
 
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