Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXV - Time to say Goodbye

[Kocur Dill]

Carp is in fantasy land

I fully expect Gorton to sell of his assets by the trade deadline and continue building through the draft. This summer is not the time to strike in the FA market IMO.

Play our cards right and we can stock this team and HFT full of talented, cheap depth and if Matthews/Marner extend for 5 years one of them can come here when they are UFA like Taveres did to a rebuilt TO last year.

TO tanked and used cap space to add valued assets in trade for a couple years when Big Lou took over. They drafted well and now are one of the top teams. No reason not to emulate that to some extent, the irony is if one of those 2 bolts for here when we/they are coincidentaly ready provided the rumor is true that Matthews is looking for a 5 year deal.

 

[Mac n Gs]

An offer sheet doesn’t always have to be for 4 first rounders. Say the Jets are screwed cap wise, you can offer sheet someone like Connor or Trouba for $8M and it’ll cost a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

 

[Edge]

One of my concerns with the current NHL landscape, and it's been pointed out in another post/thread, is that a lot of the offensive talent in the league is stacked.

In other words, your high scorers are playing with other high scores or teams with multiple top offensive weapons. Obviously talent playing with talent can be a multiplier.

But there's a bit of hesitation on my part with going out and acquiring players and expecting them to do the same with less.

So when we look at numbers for guys in Tampa, or Toronto, or other teams, I wonder just how much of decline we're looking at in an environment where they are carrying a major portion of the load, as opposed to carrying a share of the load.

 

[EpicDing]

An offer sheet doesn’t always have to be for 4 first rounders. Say the Jets are screwed cap wise, you can offer sheet someone like Connor or Trouba for $8M and it’ll cost a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

Brayden Point may be a good target as well. Tampa currently has about $80mil committed next year already.

 

[Edge]

One of my concerns with the current NHL landscape, and it's been pointed out in another post/thread, is that a lot of the offensive talent in the league is stacked.

In other words, your high scorers are playing with other high scores or teams with multiple top offensive weapons. Obviously talent playing with talent can be a multiplier.

But there's a bit of hesitation on my part with going out and acquiring players and expecting them to do the same with less.

So when we look at numbers for guys in Tampa, or Toronto, or other teams, I wonder just how much of decline we're looking at in an environment where they are carrying a major portion of the load, as opposed to carrying a share of the load.

Some of the moves we're mentioning are guys you get when you're looking to round out what you have. We're just not there yet.

 

[Bob Richards]

We should file Offer Sheets in the same category as Sasquatch Alchemy and clean White Castle bathrooms.

 

[TheBPA]

Even if we get Hughes, we shouldn't stray from the course we're on. Build through the draft. Develop the talent. Build a new core. Then look to free agency to fill the gaps.

Except the timing doesn't really work. If you wait a few years to sign a free agent to augment the core, you are going to be doing so around the same time that Hughes, etc. would be needing their next big contract.

If you get Hughes or Kakko, you sign that elite free agent NOW, for several reasons:

(1) they are available this year, which is not very common;

(2) the earlier you sign them, the less % of the cap they will take up, and term they will have left, by the time Hughes/Kakko needs to get paid (i.e. next year's cap is roughly $83 million. If you sign Panarin now to a $10/mil per deal, he would take up 12% of the cap. In 4 years, assuming the cap goes up $3 million a year, he would only be taking up 10.5% of the cap, would continue to trend down, and would only be signed for 3 more years by the time you need to renew Hughes/Kakko);

(3) Lundqvist, Staal, Shattenkirk, Smith all come off the books in 2 years. That alone frees up $25.2 million, giving you the flexibility to sign an elite player (which I consider Panarin and Stone to be, ages 27 and 26 and with games that are unlikely to suffer a steep decline), now, while they are available.

(4) Yes we need to continue building through the draft, but we have made 5 first round selections in the last 2 years, not to mention this coming draft, not to mention Howden, Hajek, Shestyorkin, Rykov. The pipeline is already getting deeper, we are just missing an elite talent or two. Drafting is one way to get them, free agency is another. We have the cap space and resources to do both.

(5) There is only ONE elite free agent possibly available in the summer of 2020 - Taylor Hall, who you would be asking to cross the river. I'd much rather pay out guys like Panarin and Stone who can produce and generally stay healthy as opposed to a guy who is 1 year older and always misses games.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Play our cards right and we can stock this team and HFT full of talented, cheap depth and if Matthews/Marner extend for 5 years one of them can come here when they are UFA like Taveres did to a rebuilt TO last year.

TO tanked and used cap space to add valued assets in trade for a couple years when Big Lou took over. They drafted well and now are one of the top teams. No reason not to emulate that to some extent, the irony is if one of those 2 bolts for here when we/they are coincidentaly ready provided the rumor is true that Matthews is looking for a 5 year deal.

It should be the blueprint and in some ways, they've followed it somewhat (Kravstov would be our Nylander, if we're going for parallels.)

Heres where things differ, that team committed to being bad, like really bad. I'm not sure I see the same commitment here. Theres been too much talk about the "playoffs" both from coaches, players and front office types alike (as unrealistic as it may be) and the trade and re-sign rumor that was dropped the other day doesn't make it seem like they're interested in following the same path (if they follow through on that.) That sounds more like what the leafs tried to do in the late 2000's and into the next decade... Before they finally figured out that it wasn't going to work that way and committed to the track they're on now.

The Rangers have a realistic shot at finishing bottom 5 this season and bottom 3 next year if they stay clear of the UFA's. That would give you 4 full drafts worth of picks, 4 straight in the top 10 and multiple later in the later 1st.

How this isn't seen as the most appealing and only course of action for the FO is beyond me. It's one thing for the fans to grow impatient and want this team to scrap the rebuild to put together a rag tag bubble team, but it's another for the people in charge who are supposed to be level headed to even consider this a viable option. It's not like you'd have to put up with THAT much more crappy hockey.

 

[Webster]

A realistic scenario...

NYR News-The chance that Zuccarello and Hayes are traded but return this summer

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Except the timing doesn't really work. If you wait a few years to sign a free agent to augment the core, you are going to be doing so around the same time that Hughes, etc. would be needing their next big contract.

If you get Hughes or Kakko, you sign that elite free agent NOW, for several reasons:

(1) they are available this year, which is not very common;

(2) the earlier you sign them, the less % of the cap they will take up, and term they will have left, by the time Hughes/Kakko needs to get paid (i.e. next year's cap is roughly $83 million. If you sign Panarin now to a $10/mil per deal, he would take up 12% of the cap. In 4 years, assuming the cap goes up $3 million a year, he would only be taking up 10.5% of the cap, would continue to trend down, and would only be signed for 3 more years by the time you need to renew Hughes/Kakko);

(3) Lundqvist, Staal, Shattenkirk, Smith all come off the books in 2 years. That alone frees up $25.2 million, giving you the flexibility to sign an elite player (which I consider Panarin and Stone to be, ages 27 and 26 and with games that are unlikely to suffer a steep decline), now, while they are available.

(4) Yes we need to continue building through the draft, but we have made 5 first round selections in the last 2 years, not to mention this coming draft, not to mention Howden, Hajek, Shestyorkin, Rykov. The pipeline is already getting deeper, we are just missing an elite talent or two. Drafting is one way to get them, free agency is another. We have the cap space and resources to do both.

(5) There is only ONE elite free agent possibly available in the summer of 2020 - Taylor Hall, who you would be asking to cross the river. I'd much rather pay out guys like Panarin and Stone who can produce and generally stay healthy as opposed to a guy who is 1 year older and always misses games.

How about 2021?

Or the guy who inevitably demands a trade out of where ever he is playing now?

 

[Ghost of jas]

It should be the blueprint and in some ways, they've followed it somewhat (Kravstov would be our Nylander, if we're going for parallels.)

Heres where things differ, that team committed to being bad, like really bad. I'm not sure I see the same commitment here. Theres been too much talk about the "playoffs" both from coaches, players and front office types alike (as unrealistic as it may be) and the trade and re-sign rumor that was dropped the other day doesn't make it seem like they're interested in following the same path (if they follow through on that.) That sounds more like what the leafs tried to do in the late 2000's and into the next decade... Before they finally figured out that it wasn't going to work that way and committed to the track they're on now.

The Rangers have a realistic shot at finishing bottom 5 this season and bottom 3 next year if they stay clear of the UFA's. That would give you 4 full drafts worth of picks, 4 straight in the top 10 and multiple later in the later 1st.

How this isn't seen as the most appealing and only course of action for the FO is beyond me. It's one thing for the fans to grow impatient and want this team to scrap the rebuild to put together a rag tag bubble team, but it's another for the people in charge who are supposed to be level headed to even consider this a viable option. It's not like you'd have to put up with THAT much more crappy hockey.

While there may be lip service to making the playoffs, what has Gorton done to actually confirm such a notion? He’s involved in trade to ship out players that a tram with playoff aspirations would likely self-rent. He’s even listening to offers for his top forward who still has term.

I think there’s both a lot of wishful thinking on the part of the local and national media in addition to the fanbase that this rebuild is going to be a short one. Nothing in the near year since the ‘letter’ appeared suggests that Gorton and company are straying from the plan that was sketched out. This trade deadline is only cementing what has already taken place.

 

[TheBPA]

How about 2021?

Or the guy who inevitably demands a trade out of where ever he is playing now?

2021? You're talking 27 year old RNH, Saad, Hamilton, Landeskog. Not even close to Stone or Panarin. No one else is available who is even close to elite, unless you like a 35 year old Getzlaf or Byfuglien.

Trade? So we're stockpiling assets in order to give them away in a trade to get that elite player? Why not just sign them with the cap space we have?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

A realistic scenario...

NYR News-The chance that Zuccarello and Hayes are traded but return this summer

It's not realistic at all. In the last 15 years, only 1 noteworthy player has been traded at the deadline as a rental, followed by signing with his old team in July. Antoine Vermette. That's it.

You think it's realistic because it fits your desire

 

[Webster]

It's not realistic at all. In the last 15 years, only 1 noteworthy player has been traded at the deadline as a rental, followed by signing with his old team in July. Antoine Vermette. That's it.

You think it's realistic because it fits your desire

It's realistic because Zuccarello is a special player to the Rangers, and he will certainly not hurt the team going forward.

There's a reason why Zucc had a meeting with the manager and the team president, that's also special.
Then he returned to the ice playing much better, they obviously have a plan he really liked...

 

[Thirty One]

It's not realistic at all. In the last 15 years, only 1 noteworthy player has been traded at the deadline as a rental, followed by signing with his old team in July. Antoine Vermette. That's it.

You think it's realistic because it fits your desire

Tkachuk? Weight?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Tkachuk? Weight?

I should have gone with 10 years haha

 

[True Blue]

If you get Hughes or Kakko, you sign that elite free agent NOW, for several reasons:

In other words, abandon the rebuild and go into the "go for it" situation.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

2021? You're talking 27 year old RNH, Saad, Hamilton, Landeskog. Not even close to Stone or Panarin. No one else is available who is even close to elite, unless you like a 35 year old Getzlaf or Byfuglien.

Trade? So we're stockpiling assets in order to give them away in a trade to get that elite player? Why not just sign them with the cap space we have?

Well, thats kind of why you stockpile assets, you're not going to be able to play all of them.

And yeah, I'd rather trade the extra assets for the right player at the right time than sign the right player at the wrong time.

 

[TheBPA]

In other words, abandon the rebuild and go into the "go for it" situation.

Well if you get a franchise player in addition to the 5 first round picks made over the last 2 years, plus our own other picks and picks acquired via trades at this year's trade deadline, yeah, at some point, the process speeds up.

 

[Thirty One]

I should have gone with 10 years haha

There was a lot of talk that a few of the players traded off in the 2004 purge would come back. For a team that was straight garbage, a lot of players seemed to really like it. Nedved, Rucinsky, Barnaby, Simon. Only Rucinsky ended up doing so.

 

[Dijock94]

A realistic scenario...

NYR News-The chance that Zuccarello and Hayes are traded but return this summer

I like the premise. They would be doing it to get assets for the team and get a playoff run as well. Who knows, maybe that’s why they signed Hayes to that 1 year deal to begin with (doubtful) but I can dream

 

[Webster]

There was a lot of talk that a few of the players traded off in the 2004 purge would come back. For a team that was straight garbage, a lot of players seemed to really like it. Nedved, Rucinsky, Barnaby, Simon. Only Rucinsky ended up doing so.

Normally you can understand why players don't come back, your old team showed you the door...

But in Zucc's case it's very different, I believe the Rangers want him, and he wants to stay. As a rental to a cup contender it will be a win win for both, Zucc goes to the playoffs, the Rangers receive some nice assets...and they will have him back for next season.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

If you get Hughes or Kakko, you sign that elite free agent NOW, for several reasons:

(1) they are available this year, which is not very common;

I hear the same thing almost every year.

2) the earlier you sign them, the less % of the cap they will take up, and term they will have left, by the time Hughes/Kakko needs to get paid (i.e. next year's cap is roughly $83 million. If you sign Panarin now to a $10/mil per deal, he would take up 12% of the cap. In 4 years, assuming the cap goes up $3 million a year, he would only be taking up 10.5% of the cap, would continue to trend down, and would only be signed for 3 more years by the time you need to renew Hughes/Kakko);

In 4 years, Panarin will be a 31 year old and will likely start his regression with another 3 years left on his contract. Signing Panarin this summer is going to prevent us from bottoming out next year. He'll also be getting valuable ice-time over a kid that should be developing.

(3) Lundqvist, Staal, Shattenkirk, Smith all come off the books in 2 years. That alone frees up $25.2 million, giving you the flexibility to sign an elite player (which I consider Panarin and Stone to be, ages 27 and 26 and with games that are unlikely to suffer a steep decline), now, while they are available.

Who's playing Defense for us next year? And the year after? This team isn't going to contend for **** until the Defense is revamped. Miller? Lundkvist? They're years away.

(4) Yes we need to continue building through the draft, but we have made 5 first round selections in the last 2 years, not to mention this coming draft, not to mention Howden, Hajek, Shestyorkin, Rykov. The pipeline is already getting deeper, we are just missing an elite talent or two. Drafting is one way to get them, free agency is another. We have the cap space and resources to do both.

We're missing a hell of a lot more than an Elite talent or two. We don't know what we have yet with our youngsters. Chytil? Andersson? Kravtsov?

(5) There is only ONE elite free agent possibly available in the summer of 2020 - Taylor Hall, who you would be asking to cross the river. I'd much rather pay out guys like Panarin and Stone who can produce and generally stay healthy as opposed to a guy who is 1 year older and always misses games.

Pass on all three of those players. The idea of an accelerated rebuild needs to stop. Have some patience. See this rebuild through. Some of you guys just, can't avoid the shiny objects July 1st. There were people here who wanted us to pursuit Tavares last summer.

Groundhog day with some of ya'll..

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Well, thats kind of why you stockpile assets, you're not going to be able to play all of them.

And yeah, I'd rather trade the extra assets for the right player at the right time than sign the right player at the wrong time.

Yes

You stockpile assets to not only try and find as much talent as possible, but to be able to make a splash when an unexpected players becomes available

 

[Trxjw]

Barely a year into the rebuild and we already need to accelerate it. Sounds about right.