Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXV - Time to say Goodbye

[Ola]

I believe the point is that Skjei was never going to have an offensive role here so his salary would never get that boost from being an offensive defenseman. The second they traded for Shattenkirk, already had DeAngelo, and "found" Pionk that pretty much ended all chances for Skjei ever seeing any/good PP time. He had one good offensive year, that he never showed at previous levels, where he had a ton of secondary assists. Dumba is a guy who was a big time scorer in junior and the AHL.

You have the opportunity to lock up a player long-term after his ELC. Why would a player that plays 3 years of an ELC contract and then 2 years of a bridge-deal then accept a long term deal often only including 2 RFA years and 3-6 UFA years?

For your own sake, please stop making these ridiculous statements based on some insane belief that all you need to do is watch some metrics taken out of context. How can Skjei's contract be bad? Its like you think he has negative value. We signed him for 5.2m until he is 29. The length is perfect. What you can discuss is a few 100k here and there. The option is to give him a bridge deal. This is a contract year for him. Then you have two arbitration processes and he becomes a UFA just when he hits his prime.

We have all seen the conclusions:
Skjei and Smith are our best defenders and AV is the worst coach ever for not playing them more!

Skjei has negative value!

Howden is one of the worst players in the NHL!

Shatty is a top defender!

Adam Clendenning is really good!

Pionk is one of the worst defenders ever!

Stone is one of the best players in the NHL!

Seriously. Its a joke. Stop posting completely ridiculous statements year in and year out and then attack others.

 

[SA16]

The revisionist history/looking at things in hindsight around here is astounding sometimes.

Go read the Skjei signing thread. Like 90% of people in it think it was a fair deal at the time. Even most people advocating for a bridge deal think it was fair for both sides.

Does it not look great now? Sure, but at the time it was certainly fair. Most people likely didn't expect a sophomore slump to continue into the third year (which is a fair assumption to make)

Confirmed with Link: - Brady Skjei re-signed [6 years, $5.25MM AAV]

"It’s fine but I still would have preferred to bridge him."

"I don't think the type of player he is will lend his contracts demands to significantly change over the next two seasons. And I don't expect him to get much PP time which should keep his counting numbers lower."

-SA16

I said the same thing then I'm saying now. I don't think that's an egregious overpay also didn't, still don't, think that his demands would change in two seasons time.

 

[SA16]

You have the opportunity to lock up a player long-term after his ELC. Why would a player that plays 3 years of an ELC contract and then 2 years of a bridge-deal then accept a long term deal often only including 2 RFA years and 3-6 UFA years?

For your own sake, please stop making these ridiculous statements based on some insane belief that all you need to do is watch some metrics taken out of context. How can Skjei's contract be bad? Its like you think he has negative value. We signed him for 5.2m until he is 29. The length is perfect. What you can discuss is a few 100k here and there. The option is to give him a bridge deal. This is a contract year for him. Then you have two arbitration processes and he becomes a UFA just when he hits his prime.

We have all seen the conclusions:
Skjei and Smith are our best defenders and AV is the worst coach ever for not playing them more!

Skjei has negative value!

Howden is one of the worst players in the NHL!

Shatty is a top defender!

Adam Clendenning is really good!

Pionk is one of the worst defenders ever!

Stone is one of the best players in the NHL!

Seriously. Its a joke. Stop posting completely ridiculous statements year in and year out and then attack others.

Still waiting on your explanation for why you're asking me about Cody Franson who, prior to yesterday, I had made two posts about in 13 years.

Additionally if you used that tremendous archive feature that you mentioned yesterday you could read my previous post about Skjei where in the thread I stated "it's fine" so saying that I think "he has negative value" is blatantly false". Not to worry though you don't actually need to use the archive feature because I quoted my previous post right above this one.

Stop posting nonsense.

Additionally I will respond to all of your other statements listed above:

1. Skjei led the team in 5v5 TOI last year so your statement "AV...playing them more" doesn't make sense.
2. Smith has put up very good numbers as a Ranger except he takes too many penalties and makes a lot of bad turnovers. The results with him on the ice are good.
3. Howden has been one of the worst players in the league. It's not debatable. He's also young, a first round pick, and hopefully will get better.
4. Shattenkirk was the best PPQB in the league over 5 years with good 5v5 impacts. He should not be played in a defensive role against top competition because that is not his strength.
5. Clendening has always performed well in the NHL in a sheltered role. Instead of bashing a guy for not being good enough to play higher up the lineup maybe he should just...play in that sheltered role where he does well?
6. Pionk fluked his way to PP pts and is terrible at 5v5. Not getting into this.
7. You don't know who Mark Stone is. He is an elite wing who is a PLAYMAKER not a goal scorer. He's always been a low volume shooter. He's a tremendous playmaker and defensive player who can take the puck away from anyone.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Still waiting on your explanation for why you're asking me about Cody Franson who, prior to yesterday, I had made two posts about in 13 years.

You all look the same. You, Machinehead, Rasp. Same.

 

[Ola]

The revisionist history/looking at things in hindsight around here is astounding sometimes.

Go read the Skjei signing thread. Like 90% of people in it think it was a fair deal at the time. Even most people advocating for a bridge deal think it was fair for both sides.

Does it not look great now? Sure, but at the time it was certainly fair. Most people likely didn't expect a sophomore slump to continue into the third year (which is a fair assumption to make)

Confirmed with Link: - Brady Skjei re-signed [6 years, $5.25MM AAV]

I covered all these things before the rebuild started. I can dig up the posts if anyone want me to. Everyone wanted a rebuild, but it was obvious many would never be able to handle the same rebuild and that is the problem. It wasn't long ago when Skjei was flying high that I posted -- just be prepared that if we start a rebuild, guys like Skjei will struggle.

If we asked someone in 2016 how they would have reacted if we started a rebuild and then brought up a rookie D and played him on the top pair and he wasn't quite ready for it -- I do think many would have said, "I would have no problem with that, its what should be expected". Then when someone like Pionk struggles they go off a cliff. Edmonton have had those TOP PICKS -- absolutely top picks -- for over a decade. They suck much worse than we do. And there are so many teams like them who have rebuilt for ever. There are many reasons for that, but one major reason is that you look and play like crap on crap teams. And looking and playing like crap hurts the kids development.

We have and have had during the season a ton of kids and younger players on this team. Name one kid that have looked good!? Nobody. There is a reason for that, kids don't look good on crap teams. Its irrelevant to go running to corsica.hockey and revert with info on how all our young players in the league are among the worst in the business. Zero context, crap team = crap results.

 

[Ola]

You all look the same. You, Machinehead, Rasp. Same.

Yeah I am guilty of this, but...

 

[EpicDing]

I covered all these things before the rebuild started. I can dig up the posts if anyone want me to. Everyone wanted a rebuild, but it was obvious many would never be able to handle the same rebuild and that is the problem. It wasn't long ago when Skjei was flying high that I posted -- just be prepared that if we start a rebuild, guys like Skjei will struggle.

If we asked someone in 2016 how they would have reacted if we started a rebuild and then brought up a rookie D and played him on the top pair and he wasn't quite ready for it -- I do think many would have said, "I would have no problem with that, its what should be expected". Then when someone like Pionk struggles they go off a cliff. Edmonton have had those TOP PICKS -- absolutely top picks -- for over a decade. They suck much worse than we do. And there are so many teams like them who have rebuilt for ever. There are many reasons for that, but one major reason is that you look and play like crap on crap teams. And looking and playing like crap hurts the kids development.

We have and have had during the season a ton of kids and younger players on this team. Name one kid that have looked good!? Nobody. There is a reason for that, kids don't look good on crap teams. Its irrelevant to go running to corsica.hockey and revert with info on how all our young players in the league are among the worst in the business. Zero context, crap team = crap results.

I'm literally only talking about the Skjei thing

 

[Ghost of jas]

My initial reaction on the Skjei deal was meh, so I didn’t apparently hate it as much as I thought I did. However, I did predict he won’t be here for the duration of the deal, and I obviously still stand by that.

 

[SA16]

You all look the same. You, Machinehead, Rasp. Same.

Well coming from someone (not you) who literally made a post yesterday telling me about the wonders of the "archive at this place" it's a bit hypocritical to make a statement saying I said something in the past when you can easily look it up and see that I did not.

 

[Ola]

@SA16 - I am sorry if I attach you to some opinions you haven't had, my mistake. I like a lot of things you post, thought your analysis on how to handle Buch's contract was brilliant.

But its stuff like this that annoys me: "Howden has been one of the worst players in the league over the last 3 months"

His metrics leads you to that conclusion. Its ridiculous. Had we had a 115 pts team Howden would have looked great and everyone would have hyped him beyond tomorrow. And you can't say "You don't know that, you are just speculating", but I can. I've been around this place for what 15 years?

Howden is what he is. He is finding his way in this league. So are many others, and many of those others also have worse tools than him.

 

[EpicDing]

"It’s fine but I still would have preferred to bridge him."

"I don't think the type of player he is will lend his contracts demands to significantly change over the next two seasons. And I don't expect him to get much PP time which should keep his counting numbers lower."

-SA16

I said the same thing then I'm saying now. I don't think that's an egregious overpay also didn't, still don't, think that his demands would change in two seasons time.

Yeah no that's fine. I'm more talking about people essentially saying this was never a good contract and the FO was mentally deficient for signing hin to it.

 

[Edge]

I'll own it, I thought it was a solid deal.

Truth be told, if he can get back to keeping things simple, and we can get him back to a role for which he is better suited, I'm still okay with the deal.

But we'll have to see if/when/how the second sentence goes.

 

[SA16]

To clarify I don't think the Skjei deal is a bad deal. I think it was basically market value. But I also don't think it was a necessary deal. What would be the path for him to suddenly be worth so much more than that?

 

[SA16]

@SA16 - I am sorry if I attach you to some opinions you haven't had, my mistake. I like a lot of things you post, thought your analysis on how to handle Buch's contract was brilliant.

But its stuff like this that annoys me: "Howden has been one of the worst players in the league over the last 3 months"

His metrics leads you to that conclusion. Its ridiculous. Had we had a 115 pts team Howden would have looked great and everyone would have hyped him beyond tomorrow. And you can't say "You don't know that, you are just speculating", but I can. I've been around this place for what 15 years?

Howden is what he is. He is finding his way in this league. So are many others, and many of those others also have worse tools than him.

I don't see what's so wrong with that opinion. Yes, his metrics lead me to that but when you're literally dead last in the league (or up there) in many categories something is wrong. It is pretty hard to simultaneously play great hockey yet also generate no offense and get shelled while on the ice and he doesn't shoot. But as I said he is young, has put up good production in junior and hopefully will improve and become an important player down the road but he's not there now. Unfortunately he was playing really well in the game he got hurt in. But again, as I've mentioned, he's 20 years old, he certainly isn't lighting up the NHL or producing even like a Kotkaniemi 35-40 point level, he doesn't show the flashes of offense like Chytil and he's played 5 AHL games and they were two years ago. Why should he not play in the AHL? Most non-extremely top prospects play more than 5 AHL games.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Skjei is actually one thing that is right on d right now. DeAngelo, Skjei and Claussen when he was healthy are the few bright spots there lately. The contract will creep along with him and even with moderate inflation the deal will be fine. Cap hit at this point isnt much of a problem. If we could rid ourselves of Smith and Staal we would be a better team on D especially when Claussen is back. I actually liked when I saw Skjei and DeAngelo on together last night it gave me some hope for the future, they looked good together.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I'll own it, I thought it was a solid deal.

Truth be told, if he can get back to keeping things simple, and we can get him back to a role for which he is better suited, I'm still okay with the deal.

But we'll have to see if/when/how the second sentence goes.

I’m in the same boat, and I still like the deal. Being thrust into a top-pairing role with guys who have been previously utilized as 2nd/3rd pairing guys will be rough on any young dman.

He’s still had many faults of his own, but I have seen some progression after a poor start to the year.

 

[Waivers]

Nothing wrong with the Skjei deal, it’s just another scapegoat the people love to abuse on these boards. For a guy who is a top pairing defenseman for the Rangers (and I know he is not that on any other team), how is that dollar figure a terrible deal? Some people just like to point fingers at just about anything.

 

[NYR2007]

Does anyone have any clue what the rangers plans on D is? they are playing and paying these veteran guys too much.. do you think staal will be bought out at end of the season

 

[Tawnos]

Does anyone have any clue what the rangers plans on D is? they are playing and paying these veteran guys too much.. do you think staal will be bought out at end of the season

This it's probably more likely they buy out Smith. Staal probably isn't going anywhere. He's a perfect player for a rebuilding team.

 

[Profet]

Does anyone have any clue what the rangers plans on D is? they are playing and paying these veteran guys too much.. do you think staal will be bought out at end of the season

There is zero reason to buy anyone out. Since the team isn't in contender/compete mode yet, there is no reason to double the amount of time necessary to get these contracts off the books.

 

[GAGLine]

Does anyone have any clue what the rangers plans on D is? they are playing and paying these veteran guys too much.. do you think staal will be bought out at end of the season

I've posted about it before, but all of Shatty, Staal and Smith have smaller base salaries in the final year of their contracts. They may be attractive to a cap floor team. Smith provides the least savings and is the worst player of the three, so he'd be the least likely to be traded. And Staal has the NMC, which could negate any trade. I think Shatty will be traded at some point though. His base salary in 2020 is 2 mil (after a 2 mil signing bonus). With a cap hit of 6.65 mil, teams like Arizona and Ottawa might be very interested in him.

All 3 contracts are up in 2 years, so worst case scenario, we ride them all out and let the players walk. I can see the argument for buying out Smith, but I'd rather not do that this summer. We'd save a lot in 2019-20, but only about 1.2 mil in 2020-21. Plus, we'd incur penalties for 2021-22 and 2022-23. Smith can be buried or we can keep him around as a 7th/8th dman. We aren't competing in the short term and we don't need the cap space, so why saddle ourselves with cap penalties in years when we hope to be competing again?

 

[Ghost of jas]

This it's probably more likely they buy out Smith. Staal probably isn't going anywhere. He's a perfect player for a rebuilding team.

As long as DeAngelo is his partner.

 

[Kovalev27]

I’m fine with the Skjei deal. He’s a second pairing dman being forced to play top pairing mins when he shouldn’t.

He also doesn’t play on the PP so the points aren’t going to be there.

What bothers me is he thinks he’s an offensive dman when he’s not. He should be focusing on being better defensively. He should be comfortable next to a DeAngelo not a McQuaid. He should be the McQuaid to a DeAngelo. So I think he’s a bit confused there. But I like Skjei

 

[Ghost of jas]

I’m fine with the Skjei deal. He’s a second pairing dman being forced to play top pairing mins when he shouldn’t.

He also doesn’t play on the PP so the points aren’t going to be there.

What bothers me is he thinks he’s an offensive dman when he’s not. He should be focusing on being better defensively. He should be comfortable next to a DeAngelo not a McQuaid. He should be the McQuaid to a DeAngelo. So I think he’s a bit confused there. But I like Skjei

He’s a good player when he’s on his game. My problem with is that I don’t see him as ‘untouchable’, and it appears the Rangers have overrated him in the same manner they are doing with Pionk. There are only five players on the roster right now, that IMO, have special qualities about them. Skjei isn’t one of those players.

 

[Gardner McKay]

You all look the same. You, Machinehead, Rasp. Same.

As someone who completely disagreed with a lot of what @Machinehead said last season, I don't believe I have disagreed with him at all this year. He hasn't been wrong on anything.