Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXIX

[NYR Viper]

Would anyone take:

Kassian + Manning + EDM 2nd '20 for Fogarty

Oilers clear some cap space. The Rangers gain a couple of depth players for next year which will help with the eventual bodies moving out this deadline and off-season. Manning is more of a #7 but may be 'inexpensive' depth

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Shocking...Kreider likely not going anywhere.

Which means Gorton intends on having a competitive team next year. Because why else make a statement like that regarding Kreider?

I can see them signing Panarin and EK if he makes it there. Probably why they didnt want to invest long term with Zucc and Hayes.

I think it has much more to do with getting the right return for Kreider rather than being competitive. If they make runs for Panarin or - even worse - Karlsson, they'd have learned not a damn thing from their decades and decades of quick fixes and lack of patience.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Would anyone take:

Kassian + Manning + EDM 2nd '20 for Fogarty

Oilers clear some cap space. The Rangers gain a couple of depth players for next year which will help with the eventual bodies moving out this deadline and off-season. Manning is more of a #7 but may be 'inexpensive' depth

I don't see why Edm does this....

 

[SA16]

If Kreider wasn't a Ranger and was going to be an upcoming FA (say this or next year) would anyone really argue that the team should sign him? It's the same argument that people make against Panarin/Stone/Karlsson except that he's already on the team. Going to be 29 when he signs...back years could look bad...team is in a rebuild etc. So as much as I like him as a player if you're not for signing Panarin/Stone/Karlsson I can not possibly understand why you would not want to trade Kreider.

 

[NYR Viper]

I don't see why Edm does this....

They clear a boatload of cap space for this year and next. That's just over $3m in cap space

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

They clear a boatload of cap space for this year and next. That's just over $3m in cap space

I'd do it. But I'm not sure that I'd consider 3-4 million a boatload...and I'm not sure it's worth a second rounder to them.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If Kreider wasn't a Ranger and was going to be an upcoming FA (say this or next year) would anyone really argue that the team should sign him? It's the same argument that people make against Panarin/Stone/Karlsson except that he's already on the team. Going to be 29 when he signs...back years could look bad...team is in a rebuild etc. So as much as I like him as a player if you're not for signing Panarin/Stone/Karlsson I can not possibly understand why you would not want to trade Kreider.

He won’t command the money those guys will but I can’t say that I disagree with the premise.

 

[duhmetreE]

Kreider is more valuable than his stats

 

[Fireonk]

If Kreider wasn't a Ranger and was going to be an upcoming FA (say this or next year) would anyone really argue that the team should sign him? It's the same argument that people make against Panarin/Stone/Karlsson except that he's already on the team. Going to be 29 when he signs...back years could look bad...team is in a rebuild etc. So as much as I like him as a player if you're not for signing Panarin/Stone/Karlsson I can not possibly understand why you would not want to trade Kreider.

I think there are two other reasons besides him just being a Ranger, although I agree with your premise that it makes myself and others more interested in signing him. 1. He won't cost nearly as much as those other guys. 2. His UFA isn't this coming season but the year after which would bring us 1 year closer to when we are expecting to start competing again.

 

[SA16]

He won’t command the money those guys will but I can’t say that I disagree with the premise.

He won't but it's not like he will be cheap we're still talking likely over 7M for 7-8 years and the reason he is cheaper is because the other guys are considerably better.

I think there are two other reasons besides him just being a Ranger, although I agree with your premise that it makes myself and others more interested in signing him. 1. He won't cost nearly as much as those other guys. 2. His UFA isn't this coming season but the year after which would bring us 1 year closer to when we are expecting to start competing again.

While this is true, he is also one year older than Stone and 6 months older than Panarin.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

He won’t command the money those guys will but I can’t say that I disagree with the premise.

I feel the same. I am rather ambivalent towards Kreider's situation. On the one hand, he won't cost as much and has proven he can be an effective leader in NY (which I actually put some stock in). On the other, I would surely trade him if the price is right. But I rank him as more valuable than both Hayes and Zucc and his skillset as more difficult to replace.

Lastly, I think it's a moot point, because unlike Zucc and Hayes (or Panarin and EK) there is no situation in which we have to sign Kreider to an extension this off-season. So if you ask me next year at this same time how I feel (and I can also better assess the progress or lack thereof of the rebuild) then I will have a better response for you.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

For the record, if Kreider was an FA this year (and 28 years old), I would be 100% on the trade him bandwagon (assuming his contract demands are similar to Hayes').

 

[Inferno]

Was bored

Deadline Trades
Mats Zuccarello for Adam Fox and a 2020 3rd
Kevin Hayes for Oscar Kylington and a 2019 first
Chris Kreider at 50% + Adam McQuaid for William Nylander and Engvall
Bo Nieves and Pionk for Ryan Callahan, a decent fwd prospect and a 2nd in 2019 (conditions on the earlier 1st go away)
Kevin Shattenkirk at 50% to Dallas for Nishkushkin and a 2019 2nd rounder
Namestnikov, Vesey and Georgiev for Kassian, Manning, Pulujärvi and Cam Talbot. Maybe Oil add a pick.

Offseason - Pavel Buchnevich + nonroster asset for Alex Nylander

NYR “Team Tank” for 2020
W Nylander - Zib - A Nylander
Chytil - Kakko - Stone (signed as UFA)
Kravtsov - Howden - Pulujärvi
Nishkushkin/Kassian- Andersson/Strome - Fast

Gortons job to solve in the offseason
Callahan

Callup(s): Engvall/Meskanen/Gettinger/Fontaine/Bellesky/Virta/Gropp/2 vets

Staal - ADA
Skjei - Fox
Kylington - Claesson

Gortons job to solve in offseason
Manning
Smith

Callup(s): Raddysh/Lindgren/Hajek/Rykov/Crawley/Day/Vet

King Hank
Czar Igor

NYR Draft picks 2019

• 1st round pick NYR - Kaapo Kakko (C/RW)
• 1st round pick from Calgary - Albin Grewe (RW)
• 1st round pick from TBL - Yeger Afanseyev (RW)
• 2nd round pick NYR - Ilya Mironov (D)
• 2nd round pick from Dallas - Robert Mastrosimone (LW)
• 2nd round pick from TBL - Ethan Keppen (LW)
• 3rd round pick NYR - Tobias Björnfot (D)
• 5th round pick NYR - Trent Miner (G)
• 6th round pick NYR - Ethan Frisch (D)
• 7th round pick (trade for a 2020 7th) - Ethan Langevin (G)
• 7th round pick (trade for a 2020 7th) - Lucas Feuk (C)

Top New and/or Unsigned Prospects
Adam Huska (NCAA)
Tyler Wall (NCAA)
Olof Lindbom (SHL)
Trent Miner (WHL)
Ethan Langevin (OHL)

K’Andre Miller (NCAA)
Nils Lundkvist (SHL)
Ilya Mironov (KHL)
Tobias Björnfot (SHL)
Nico Gross (OHL)
Joey Keane (OHL)
Jacob Ragnarsson (Allsvenskan)
Ethan Frisch (USHL)
Calle Själin (Allsvenskan)
Tarmo Reunanen (Liiga)

Albin Grewe (SHL)
Yeger Afanseyev (KHL)
Robert Mastrosimone (USHL)
Ethan Keppen (OHL)
Morgan Barron (NCAA)
Riley Hughes (BCHL)
Lucas Feuk (Allsvenskan)

Sorry

Wasn't Talbot already traded? (I'm way behind in this thread)

 

[HonestGabe]

Rangers are the rebuild no one is talking about

For anyone looking for a nice, horribly written article about the Rangers by a novice who doesn’t do any research, well, here you go.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

He won't but it's not like he will be cheap we're still talking likely over 7M for 7-8 years and the reason he is cheaper is because the other guys are considerably better.



While this is true, he is also one year older than Stone and 6 months older than Panarin.

My problem with Panarin has nothing to do with his actual skill level, or even what he will command, it has to do with where I see the team today. Right now, I see this team as awful and likely headed for another awful season next year, thus wasting the first year of Panarin's contract. That will likely carry over to another 2-3 years of mediocrity/missing playoffs, until which time we can hopefully compete.

That being said, if some of the things @RGY proposed come to fruition, let's say for example:

1. Chtyil takes the next step and establishes himself as a top 6 forward.
2. Lias establishes himself as a solid, NHL, bottom 6 center.
3. We get a top 3 pick - one of Hughes/Kaako/Cozens
4. Gorton adds a solid player on D (not EK) and one of our guys - Rykov, Lindgren, Hajek, becomes a steady 3rd pairing guy.

Now....I don't think these are completely implausible. So let's assume a few of these happen and the Rangers are slightly better than last year. Maybe on the cusp of being a playoff team. In that case, I could see a stronger argument for signing Kreider (or Panarin had his FA been delayed a year).

However, as it stands now, I think the majority of us who want to 'tank' would likely advocate for trading Kreider had he been in the same situation as Hayes and Zucc. But he's not, so it's much easier for us to have patience in dealing with him.

 

[Trxjw]

The Blueshirts have also received inquiries on Chris Kreider, with the Maple Leafs, Bruins and Predators believed to be three interested parties, but we’re told the winger is only available if general manager Jeff Gorton receives an offer he cannot refuse for No. 20. Thus far, no severed horses’ heads have appeared between the sheets.

Unless the Rangers are simply overwhelmed by an offer including a William Nylander or Charlie McAvoy, trading Kreider in addition to Hayes and Zuccarello would strip the team of three of its four best players (non-goalie division) with only Mika Zibanejad left behind to carry the torch.

So dealing 2 of or best 4 forwards is totally fine, but dealing 3 is totally irresponsible? Makes total sense. Larry's still worried about the record of the team.

Fiala and Fabbro. Kapanen and Sandin/Liljegren. DeBrusk and Vaakanainen. Those are all similar packages for Kreider that I would be good with. Preferably the Predators package. Can't see the Leafs or Bruins tabling them in the middle of a playoff push though.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

 

[SA16]

My problem with Panarin has nothing to do with his actual skill level, or even what he will command, it has to do with where I see the team today. Right now, I see this team as awful and likely headed for another awful season next year, thus wasting the first year of Panarin's contract. That will likely carry over to another 2-3 years of mediocrity/missing playoffs, until which time we can hopefully compete.

That being said, if some of the things @RGY proposed come to fruition, let's say for example:

1. Chtyil takes the next step and establishes himself as a top 6 forward.
2. Lias establishes himself as a solid, NHL, bottom 6 center.
3. We get a top 3 pick - one of Hughes/Kaako/Cozens
4. Gorton adds a solid player on D (not EK) and one of our guys - Rykov, Lindgren, Hajek, becomes a steady 3rd pairing guy.

Now....I don't think these are completely implausible. So let's assume a few of these happen and the Rangers are slightly better than last year. Maybe on the cusp of being a playoff team. In that case, I could see a stronger argument for signing Kreider (or Panarin had his FA been delayed a year).

However, as it stands now, I think the majority of us who want to 'tank' would likely advocate for trading Kreider had he been in the same situation as Hayes and Zucc. But he's not, so it's much easier for us to have patience in dealing with him.

Yes I guess this is where my disconnect is. If the team is looking to bottom out next year still - fine - but having either Kreider or Panarin on the team will both hurt that. Panarin will obviously hurt it more but he is also the far superior long term option and comes with an additional group of picks and prospects you would get for Kreider (and will cost 3-4M more). If they're looking to compete next year then again Panarin is better immediately though they obviously need more than that. What does holding on to Kreider until next deadline do other than get you a lesser return for him a year from now or signing a lesser player to a long term deal when you had the ability to get much better players just the year before?

 

[NYR Viper]

So dealing 2 of or best 4 forwards is totally fine, but dealing 3 is totally irresponsible? Makes total sense. Larry's still worried about the record of the team.

Fiala and Fabbro. Kapanen and Sandin/Liljegren. DeBrusk and Vaakanainen. Those are all similar packages for Kreider that I would be good with. Preferably the Predators package. Can't see the Leafs or Bruins tabling them in the middle of a playoff push though.

Agreed. And Kreider REALLY fits with the way their team plays and their window to compete. It gives them (2) years of a legit power forward. More size for when they need to play either St Louis and/or Winnipeg and another net front scoring presence on a team that has a gameplan to bomb away from the point.

 

[SA16]

Kreider is actually a perfect fit for Toronto given we can trade him him at 50% which would be a 2.3M cap hit and they have major cap issues in the first place. Toronto has kind of run into an issue that their best years to compete with their young guys on ELC corresponded directly with the Lightning being stacked.

 

[TheBPA]

Yes I guess this is where my disconnect is. If the team is looking to bottom out next year still - fine - but having either Kreider or Panarin on the team will both hurt that. Panarin will obviously hurt it more but he is also the far superior long term option and comes with an additional group of picks and prospects you would get for Kreider (and will cost 3-4M more). If they're looking to compete next year then again Panarin is better immediately though they obviously need more than that. What does holding on to Kreider until next deadline do other than get you a lesser return for him a year from now or signing a lesser player to a long term deal when you had the ability to get much better players just the year before?

I'd be ok with trading Kreider if they can get a return that really makes it worth it. Fiala and Fabbro would do it for me, or if we could somehow convince the Leafs to exchange Nylander for Kreider.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Yes I guess this is where my disconnect is. If the team is looking to bottom out next year still - fine - but having either Kreider or Panarin on the team will both hurt that. Panarin will obviously hurt it more but he is also the far superior long term option and comes with an additional group of picks and prospects you would get for Kreider (and will cost 3-4M more). If they're looking to compete next year then again Panarin is better immediately though they obviously need more than that. What does holding on to Kreider until next deadline do other than get you a lesser return for him a year from now or signing a lesser player to a long term deal when you had the ability to get much better players just the year before?

I thought it was pretty clear. My reason for not signing Panarin is that I find it pretty unlikely we'll be anything more than a bottom 10 team next year. However, on the off chance that we actually improve (based on those assumptions made in my previous post) then resigning Kreider might not be such a bad thing. It's impossible for me to assess what this team will be like a year from now. Especially considering we still have the chance to potentially get a top tier talent in the draft. That changes things enormously. A Kaakko or Hughes in the organization changes the nature of the rebuild.

Moreover, from recent history, I think the added value between trading a guy now, versus next deadline is pretty overblown. This market is also a really bad one for forwards because of how many are available. We could actually luck out next year if there are not many teams selling. We just don't know. If they get a great offer for Kreids today, they should obviously take it, but if it's not something really good, then holding out to see where we're at next deadline wouldn't be the dumbest decision.

So overall, I'm fine if the trade Kreider, but I don't see it as an absolutely necessity whereas Hayes and Zucc obviously are.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Kreider is more valuable than his stats

This is the kind of baseless compliment a player gets just because he's been around for a while.

Kreider never particularly struck me as some sort of team leader. I think he's exactly as valuable as his stats indicate, and that translates to a term/$$$ figure that the Rangers cannot and should not entertain.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Only way I'm moving Kreider is if its Nylander and a 1st.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Rangers are the rebuild no one is talking about

For anyone looking for a nice, horribly written article about the Rangers by a novice who doesn’t do any research, well, here you go.

It was definitely horribly written without any research.