Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXIX

[NYR Viper]

That was a beauty hit.

Agreed

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

This is year 1. Next is year 2. I think they can be competitive in “year 3” of the rebuild as in being a tough out in the playoffs. That is not unrealistic.

People dont want Panarin because it hurts the tank capability for next season. I think some here would enjoy rebuilding forever. There is no reason to think that the prospects we already have plus what we add via trades and the draft this year cant become very very good players, maybe even great and help us win with added pieces from different channels

First of all, it's obviously hyperbole to claim people want to rebuild forever. No one wants to rebuild forever and I think the majority of us would never prefer to have to rebuild at all. That does not change the fact that this team is in deep need of a serious rebuild and, in my opinion and others, taking it seriously, rather than doing what you propose, would be the best way forward to eventually achieving a cup.

You act like if they suck for 2 years, it's some complete disaster. Many of us grew up on dark age Rangers. Others lived through it. Much of what your advocating- these shortcut methods of doing a rebuild - is exactly what led to an eon of failure for this organization.

Furthermore, the arguments you espouse regarding people not wanting Panarin are mostly incorrect. Myself, and most others, argue that signing a 28 year old to an enormous deal that will very likely take him to age 35-36, is absurd for a franchise that will almost certainly not be competitive for 2-4 years. It is very possible, by the time this team is ready to seriously compete, Panarin will be on the decline. Moreover, adding Panarin does little to a team with as many holes as the Rangers.

Now, I appreciate your optimism and its nice that you live in a world with such rosy visions, but I am hardly a pessimist. Maybe you equate realism with pessimism, but that would be rather incorrect. From what I see, the Rangers have a lot of positive, beginning pieces. However, they have far to many holes to imagine them fixing all of them within 1-2 years to be competitive. Now, could everything on your list happen -- absolutely could. I might also win powerball in the next drawing. Never say never. Yet, the likelihood of those things all happening to make this team competitive in the next two years is extremely unlikely.

Thus, I believe the quickest path to true and sustained success is by really seeing through the rebuild we began in earnest a year ago. It was a great start last season. It can be better if they make the right moves this year. And within 2-3 years, hopefully it will all blossom into a team that can again sustain success for a decade or more (and this time with one or more cups).

 

[effen]

Take a look at that tweet above.

Unless thats all lip service to attempt to drive up the price (which is may be), this is a decision that should have been made by now.

Extending those guys would be a massive failure, less so with Hayes but still a pretty big **** up and a signal that JG has no idea which direction he wants to go in other than straight to Minnesota Wildville.

I think there's more than lip service there in that they like these guys and this org is a lot less cutthroat than others. The possible benefits to that are hard to quantify but it's probably more than 0. There's also no reason to publicly (or privately) remove options on your own for the sake of it.

Gorton's very clearly no dummy and you don't write the "letter" just to reverse on it a year later when you're in 12th in the conference with ~none of the kiddos doing especially well.

The thing people are struggling with is the lack of action which sadly is a league-wide problem much more than a Gorton problem. NHL GMs are notorious for not doing shit until the last minute despite having all year to do so. There might not even be standing underpayment offers, just "interest". Takes two to make a deal.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Jeff you're a dope....

... Unless you sit them starting tomorrow and trade them anyway... Then GJ JG.

It’s a nothing burger of a statement. Complete GM speak. Gorton runs a notoriously tight ship, why would that change now?

 

[Off Sides]

Take a look at that tweet above.

Unless thats all lip service to attempt to drive up the price (which is may be), this is a decision that should have been made by now.

Extending those guys would be a massive failure, less so with Hayes but still a pretty big **** up and a signal that JG has no idea which direction he wants to go in other than straight to Minnesota Wildville.

I too am hoping that is just GM speak for we did our homework, yet I agree it comes off more like they have no long term plan.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

My point is that those players were acquired in one vending machine... the VERY top of the draft and those of you who want to resign Hayes, Zucc (Nash and Grabner last yr) will never, EVER have access to that vending machine because it'll be empty. You'll be left there to lick the crumbs off the wrappers, in the trash can, left by the smart teams who purchased them ahead of you.

I don't, nor ever did, want any of the players you've mentioned resigned. Except for maybe Hayes. But if they do trade him, I'd be fine with it. And if the Rangers get lucky and land the first or second pick in the draft this year, awesome. But if they don't, I'm not gonna sulk after wins or demand every good player over the age of 26 gets traded.

But good luck standing on that line, fella. Hopefully when your turn comes you get a Chicago instead of an Edmonton.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

And what do Edmonton, Florida and Buffalo all have in common? I'll wait.

I'll say this again, regardless of what you or I want, the Rangers are never going to purposely tank. If that was their plan, they would have sold guys off last summer. And I'm 100% with the Stay Competitive Crowd. Right up until the day the NHL changes the draft lottery rules.

And maybe you're too young to remember, but they put themselves in position to draft Crosby, and they got unlucky and the pick went to Pittsburgh. Being bad guarantees you nothing but being bad.

What do Edmonton et al have in common?


Bad management. You can stop waiting now.

 

[Ola]

This is very interesting. Never really contemplated trading Kreids, but hypothetically speaking.........
Trading Hayes to say.......Nashville, done.
Then does Winnipeg get a call from Gorton stating......"well, Nashville just upgraded with Hayes, would you be interested in Kreids?

Of course Panarin, Stone and Duchene are in play......but Kreids is indeed under contract, and your proposal "should be" quite the take.......and could get us quite the haul.
Don't "want to" trade Kreids, because I believe that would upset the balance of the team.....but man, wouldn't that be something.

Yeah, to a contender with little cap space, Kreider at 50% should just be worth a lot more than to us.

So many other teams are stating that they aren't mortgaging their future for a Cup run. And so forth. But those contenders like Washington and Pittsburgh and co will definitely give up futures for present gains. Kreider at 50% is a big gain for those teams.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It’s a nothing burger of a statement. Complete GM speak. Gorton runs a notoriously tight ship, why would that change now?

Maybe, but its completely different than the way he dealt with shit last year.

 

[RGY]

First of all, it's obviously hyperbole to claim people want to rebuild forever. No one wants to rebuild forever and I think the majority of us would never prefer to have to rebuild at all. That does not change the fact that this team is in deep need of a serious rebuild and, in my opinion and others, taking it seriously, rather than doing what you propose, would be the best way forward to eventually achieving a cup.

You act like if they suck for 2 years, it's some complete disaster. Many of us grew up on dark age Rangers. Others lived through it. Much of what your advocating- these shortcut methods of doing a rebuild - is exactly what led to an eon of failure for this organization.

Furthermore, the arguments you espouse regarding people not wanting Panarin are mostly incorrect. Myself, and most others, argue that signing a 28 year old to an enormous deal that will very likely take him to age 35-36, is absurd for a franchise that will almost certainly not be competitive for 2-4 years. It is very possible, by the time this team is ready to seriously compete, Panarin will be on the decline. Moreover, adding Panarin does little to a team with as many holes as the Rangers.

Now, I appreciate your optimism and its nice that you live in a world with such rosy visions, but I am hardly a pessimist. Maybe you equate realism with pessimism, but that would be rather incorrect. From what I see, the Rangers have a lot of positive, beginning pieces. However, they have far to many holes to imagine them fixing all of them within 1-2 years to be competitive. Now, could everything on your list happen -- absolutely could. I might also win powerball in the next drawing. Never say never. Yet, the likelihood of those things all happening to make this team competitive in the next two years is extremely unlikely.

Thus, I, along with many others, seem to believe the quickest path to true and sustained success is by really seeing through the rebuild we began in earnest a year ago. It was a great start last season. It can be better if they make the right moves this year. And within 2-3 years, hopefully it will all blossom into a team that can again sustain success for a decade or more (and this time with one or more cups).

Without reading much of the story you just posted proclaiming your unique experiences, ill intervene to let you know I grew up through those “dark ages”. I fully lived it. Signing washed up veterans past their prime to put us a bubble team that never made the playoffs while also at the same time having an incompetent farm system due to the Management Staff and Scouts having poor drafts.

Please dont compare now to then. Save me the time. This isn’t the early 2000s. We have a very competent management staff, we have a good farm system because have drafted well and already started selling off old core pieces. Things we did not do back then. Back then we would have never traded Brassard, Stepan, McDonagh, etc. And if we did it would have been for nothing like that Graves trade. We traded for a banged up Lindros. Fleury was good for a second. Bure trade value was fair but injuries derailed him. He had 51 points in 52 games with us.

Just because I think they should sign Panarin, who is 28 and a great talent, does not mean i have the right or wrong intentions for the Rebuild. There isnt one way to do this. Being absolutely terrible, the worst for 2 seasons does not equal success. We know this because Edmonton, Arizona, and Buffalo have been terrible for awhile. A long while. So dont spend your time telling me my ideas are improper, incoherent, wrong, misguided, off the rails, or whatever anyone wants to label them as, because I believe in the draft picks we have made, believe in what we will do moving forward at the TDL and draft, and adding to what we have could result in success that we start to see in 2020-2021 season. Dont sit here and act like you know better for how this should go. Because who are your examples to lean on? What teams that tanked? Pittsburgh who got Crosby and Malkin? How many other teams had the success from tanking?

I’ll wait.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Jeff you're a dope....

... Unless you sit them starting tomorrow and trade them anyway... Then GJ JG.

I mean, our guys aren’t the premier pieces on the market, what GM is going to give a legitimate offer that would include a piece for our guys that would have to be included for those premier guys? They’ve all probably gotten the ground work done for what the deals would look like, but that’s pretty much where everything is until someone gets traded to set the market

 

[Off Sides]

Maybe, but its completely different than the way he dealt with **** last year.

Maybe they learned that stating their intentions in a public letter does not go hand in hand with getting back the best returns?

 

[Trxjw]

Gorton is back to his old tight-lipped ways. He's not going to tip his hand days before the deadline. Nothing to get worked up about.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I mean, our guys aren’t the premier pieces on the market, what GM is going to give a legitimate offer that would include a piece for our guys that would have to be included for those premier guys? They’ve all probably gotten the ground work done for what the deals would look like, but that’s pretty much where everything is until someone gets traded to set the market

This is all true, but again I'll say it.

This is completely different than the way he dealt with the media prior to the deadline last year. Maybe the market has something to do with it because he doesn't have the top players on the market, but this more or less ensures that these guys are going to suit up through Sunday (which is f***ing idiotic no matter what) and sounds like he's looking for reasons to abort his initial plan.

Feel good oh the kids like them! is a bad reason to keep anyone.

These guys are professionals, they'll move on. If they can't, then its time to move those guys along as well.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Maybe they learned that stating their intentions in a public letter does not go hand in hand with getting back the best returns?

Good point.

 

[Larrybiv]

This makes sense, and it coincides with hearing that Boston is pushing for Hayes

Where did you hear that? I have been saying all along that I believe he will go to Boston. They're going to give the Hayes family another shot. I remember reading their fans stating over and over they had the wrong Hayes. Lol. And we always think we have the wrong brothers. Strome for example.

Actually, we have for the most part......have had the majority of the best of the brothers. And even had both in the cases of the Maloney's and the Cook's. (No chefs)
Kelly Miller
Neal Broten
Ric Seiling
Marc & Eric over Jordan
Brian or Joe Mullen?

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

The irony is Ovechkin was 32 when he finally won a Cup. Half of you would have been screaming to trade him 5 years ago for Yakupov, straight up.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The irony is Ovechkin was 32 when he finally won a Cup. Half of you would have been screaming to trade him 5 years ago for Yakupov, straight up.

Ovechkin is quite possibly the best goal scorer that this league has ever seen.

Most of us want to be in a position to draft a player who can be somewhere around that level of player,

 

[NYR Viper]

 

[FIRE DRURY]

And what do Edmonton, Florida and Buffalo all have in common? I'll wait.

I'll say this again, regardless of what you or I want, the Rangers are never going to purposely tank. If that was their plan, they would have sold guys off last summer. And I'm 100% with the Stay Competitive Crowd. Right up until the day the NHL changes the draft lottery rules.

And maybe you're too young to remember, but they put themselves in position to draft Crosby, and they got unlucky and the pick went to Pittsburgh. Being bad guarantees you nothing but being bad.

Edmonton is a dumpster fire. They would **** up a wet dream. Buffalo is going to be a very competitive team for a long time. Florida - who knows.

Our franchise has drafted and developed 3rd and 4th rounders into quality players for years now. I trust our system a lot more than theirs.

Staying competitive while rebuilding is like trying to lose weight by eating at McDonald's. Good luck with that.

 

[JohnC]

Gorton is back to his old tight-lipped ways. He's not going to tip his hand days before the deadline. Nothing to get worked up about.

This rebuild has taught a lot about this board.

Team Tank and Team Anti-Tank both need to take a chill pill and step away from the ledge a bit. Every small piece of news drives some segment or another insane.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

This is all true, but again I'll say it.

This is completely different than the way he dealt with the media prior to the deadline last year. Maybe the market has something to do with it because he doesn't have the top players on the market, but this more or less ensures that these guys are going to suit up through Sunday (which is ****ing idiotic no matter what) and sounds like he's looking for reasons to abort his initial plan.

Feel good oh the kids like them! is a bad reason to keep anyone.

These guys are professionals, they'll move on. If they can't, then its time to move those guys along as well.

Even then, I feel like there’s more reports out there that have multiple teams interested in our guys (even if they’re they plan B to these teams) than there is about the Rangers keeping them. The only report that isn’t some sort of guess work was that Brooks thing the other day about them meeting with agents, but that even could just be to know their ask for if they actually do want to resign them in the summer or to let teams interested know what they would be looking at contract wise for the next however many years. I’m not really going to worry about them staying around until Monday night if they’re still here

 

[LORDE]

It’s a nothing burger of a statement. Complete GM speak. Gorton runs a notoriously tight ship, why would that change now?

It's more telling to me that he doesn't say anything, then all of a sudden, 5 days away he comes out and say this, not to Larry Brooks mind you (a noted voice used by the NYR to leak what they wish, when they wish) but by Matt Larkin of the HN

He wants the league to know that's he's not against signing them.

 

[Larrybiv]

Yeah, to a contender with little cap space, Kreider at 50% should just be worth a lot more than to us.

So many other teams are stating that they aren't mortgaging their future for a Cup run. And so forth. But those contenders like Washington and Pittsburgh and co will definitely give up futures for present gains. Kreider at 50% is a big gain for those teams.

Yes, especially Washington as they certainly have a legit shot.....Pittsburgh has some serious tweaking to do. Not sure if they "have what it takes" for Kreids. But their 1st might be just about better than any other 1st that might be out there. Who knows? There has to be better teams offering much better for him. "IF" a big if......Gorton is even contemplating it. I believe they will wait till next year to possibly trade him. Lots of things will change and the Rangers have to see what progress is being made until then.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

The irony is Ovechkin was 32 when he finally won a Cup. Half of you would have been screaming to trade him 5 years ago for Yakupov, straight up.

Nonsense.

I had no problem seeing this team go for it during Lundqvist's peak. If we had AO here I doubt 1/2 the people on this forum would have been screaming to trade him for anything.

Very foolish post.