Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXIX

[GoAwayPanarin]

This is year 2 - Stepan trade marked the start of the rebuild, letter to the fans aside. Next year will be year 3, with the talent they have and the assets they've acquired it's not absurd to think they'll have a shot making the playoffs next season. Everyone makes the playoffs in this league.

They signed shattenkirk a week later.

I think the plan was to see what they had and slowly strip away with out forcing the tank. That’s a plan that isn’t too bad, it keeps things from being dire for too long but it went into warp speed mode last year after we saw just how much this team needs to rebuild.

It’d be a shame to watch the FO go from clear headed to shit headed this quickly. We’re really a calendar year into this whole thing, it’s not the time to be doing things that are drastic and/or stupid

 

[FIRE DRURY]

I am not expecting to be competing for a cup next year. But you are signing Panarin, an elite talent, for more than just next year. In 2 years, ‘20-‘21 season, Chytil will be going into his 3rd full season. Kravtsov possibly his 2nd. Lias possibly his 2nd. Howden, maybe 3rd. By then you could have Lindgren and Hajek on the D line. Possibly Lundkvist. Rykov. Tarmo. You may also have your 1st rounder from this year top 10 making his way in his 1st season then. They could all help in making this team competitive by then. Year 3 of the rebuild. That is when the Panarin signing starts to have an impact. Kreider and Zib still here.

This does not have to be a 5 year rebuild. The team has (6) 1st round picks from the last 3 drafts. All have talent. They can be a very good team by Year 3 of the rebuild with the right combination of those kids and veteran proven NHLers. It is ok for our team to take the next step and contend for the playoffs because that will mean we drafted the right kids..

Look at Columbus. Better team through and through in comparison to ours. Despite Panarin being elite (which I don't think he is) they're only 9 points ahead of us.

Also highlighted more key words in your post.

Barring a surprise, Smith, Shatty, and Staal are still here next year. So there goes Panarin's 1st season here. They're all here the year after next, so burn another year of paying Panarin 10M+.

His third season here is when I think we'll start being legit. Panarin will be 30 a few weeks after that season starts.

You know what Panarin will help over the next couple of years? He'll help prevent us from picking in the top-5 like a rebuilding team should be doing. He'll help us get a couple of pointless points.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

The Stepan trade absolutely did not start the rebuild. Teams that aren't rebuilding can trade established players.

They traded their #1 center and went into the season without his replacement. That says rebuild to me.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

They signed shattenkirk a week later.

I think the plan was to see what they had and slowly strip away with out forcing the tank. That’s a plan that isn’t too bad, it keeps things from being dire for too long but it went into warp speed mode last year after we saw just how much this team needs to rebuild.

It’d be a shame to watch the FO go from clear headed to **** headed this quickly. We’re really a calendar year into this whole thing, it’s not the time to be doing things that are drastic and/or stupid

I agree with this. But that's still a rebuild, no? Shattenkirk was odd, for sure. But he also gave the Rangers an offer they couldn't refuse. No one was not going to sign him for that. I'd also point out that they were firmly in a playoff spot before Kreider went down with the blood clot.

 

[NYR Viper]

So next season we have Hank Geo Igor and Allen trying to play in the NHL? No thanks

I mean it would require some other moves for sure. Perhaps there would be a team more willing to take Allen at half his cap hit. So the overall deal would be:

Shattenkirk for Allen + ______ + ________
The Rangers save $2.15m on the cap

Allen @ 50% for _______
Rangers save another $2.175m on the cap

The Rangers keep $2.175m on the cap in lieu of the 50% retained on Shattenkirk ($3.25m)

 

[LORDE]

Folks need to stop attempting to fix this roster for next season.

It won't work.

In fact it would be more impossible than last year when they sent the letter. We'll be worse next year in all probability.

Once you start thinking about fixing this roster for the year(s) after, things are more realistic

 

[FIRE DRURY]

This is year 2 - Stepan trade marked the start of the rebuild, letter to the fans aside. Next year will be year 3, with the talent they have and the assets they've acquired it's not absurd to think they'll have a shot making the playoffs next season. Everyone makes the playoffs in this league.

This is year 1. The rebuild letter went out last February. The Stepan trade was to avoid getting locked into a contract for a guy that has likely already peaked and will start regressing.

Those assets we've acquired are still in the pubescent stages of their careers. Chytil, our pride and joy, has been benched. Lias is in Hartford. Lindgren and Hajek? Yea.. Not ready yet. Howden has been invisible for months now. Miller and Lundkvist are years away. Kravtsov should be here next year but expecting big results from him immediately is wishful thinking.

This is year 1 of our rebuild. You're one of many people here who are hellbent on accelerating it because you lack patience.

 

[Thirty One]

They traded their #1 center and went into the season without his replacement. That says rebuild to me.

They talked with Thornton and Marleau, but ended up signing Shattenkirk. They ditched a $6.5 million veteran and brought in a $6.65 veteran. I don't see the sharp change of course.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

They traded their #1 center and went into the season without his replacement. That says rebuild to me.

Or they thought Zibanejad and Hayes were ready to slide up the roster

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

I mean it would require some other moves for sure. Perhaps there would be a team more willing to take Allen at half his cap hit. So the overall deal would be:

Shattenkirk for Allen + ______ + ________
The Rangers save $2.15m on the cap

Allen @ 50% for _______
Rangers save another $2.175m on the cap

The Rangers keep $2.175m on the cap in lieu of the 50% retained on Shattenkirk ($3.25m)

IMHO We dont have a good enough front office to pull this off

 

[FIRE DRURY]

They traded their #1 center and went into the season without his replacement. That says rebuild to me.

Zbad was his replacement. Why didn't you see other vets moved when Stepan was traded?

Because we weren't rebuilding.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Folks need to stop attempting to fix this roster for next season.

It won't work.

In fact it would be more impossible than last year when they sent the letter. We'll be worse next year in all probability.

Once you start thinking about fixing this roster for the year(s) after, things are more realistic

Some people can only see 2-3 moves ahead of them when they're playing a game chess.

Fortunately, our GM isn't one of those guys.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

This is year 1. The rebuild letter went out last February. The Stepan trade was to avoid getting locked into a contract for a guy that has likely already peaked and will start regressing.

Those assets we've acquired are still in the pubescent stages of their careers. Chytil, our pride and joy, has been benched. Lias is in Hartford. Lindgren and Hajek? Yea.. Not ready yet. Howden has been invisible for months now. Miller and Lundkvist are years away. Kravtsov should be here next year but expecting big results from him immediately is wishful thinking.

This is year 1 of our rebuild. You're one of many people here who are hellbent on accelerating it because you lack patience.

What you call lack of patience, I call reality. I'm not saying accelerate anything. Things are fluid, players will become available, others will get hurt. Who here thought the Stralman signing years ago would have gotten that return? No one.

I get it, everyone wants a Hughes or Lafrenierre or whatever embryo is playing midget hockey in Thunderbay. Cause they're always the answer. It's not realistic. If that was the route they were taking, they would have iced a much different team this season. Purposely being bad in this league doesn't give you the first overall pick. And yes, Chytil will get benched, Anderson will spend a year in Hartford and Howden will go invisible at times. That's young players being young players. I remember reading on this site last year people wanting to trade Krieder for Puljarvi, straight up. How would that have worked out? The shiny new object is always better than what you have. Until it's not.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I agree with this. But that's still a rebuild, no? Shattenkirk was odd, for sure. But he also gave the Rangers an offer they couldn't refuse. No one was not going to sign him for that. I'd also point out that they were firmly in a playoff spot before Kreider went down with the blood clot.

Nope.

Moving a player to open up space to sign another is a re-tool.

They were in a playoff spot getting their lunch shoved down their throats on a nightly basis. The injuries really only further facilitated what was probably coming anyway.

This years team has had so much go right for them, 4 guys having career seasons, no major injuries, shoot out wins out the ass, yet they’re 9 points out (for now, while being 7 points higher in the standings than they should be.)

 

[Larrybiv]

Looking at things from a value perspective -- I got to say that dealing Chris Kreider at 50% retention should make more sense than keeping him with an upcoming contract situation that isn't going to be perfect.

There are so many teams out there with a tight cap situation that are legit contenders. From Calgary to Winnipeg to Tampa to Pittsburgh to Washington to Toronto and so forth. Either tight against the cap this season or next. For these teams it would of course be huge to add Kreider at 2.3m per for 1.5 years. The retention length is perfect for us, just next year when we are rebuilding anyway.

Would Washington give up Burakovsky, Vrana and their 1st for Kreider at 50%?

Fiala and Tolvanen from Nashville for Kreider at 50%?

This is very interesting. Never really contemplated trading Kreids, but hypothetically speaking.........
Trading Hayes to say.......Nashville, done.
Then does Winnipeg get a call from Gorton stating......"well, Nashville just upgraded with Hayes, would you be interested in Kreids?

Of course Panarin, Stone and Duchene are in play......but Kreids is indeed under contract, and your proposal "should be" quite the take.......and could get us quite the haul.
Don't "want to" trade Kreids, because I believe that would upset the balance of the team.....but man, wouldn't that be something.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Nope.

Moving a player to open up space to sign another is a re-tool.

They were in a playoff spot getting their lunch shoved down their throats on a nightly basis. The injuries really only further facilitated what was probably coming anyway.

This years team has had so much go right for them, 4 guys having career seasons, no major injuries, shoot out wins out the ass, yet they’re 9 points out (for now, while being 7 points higher in the standings than they should be.)

Ok, retool, rebuild whatever you people want to call it is fine with me. We can talk in circles here all day, and that's fun, but it's clear the fans and management aren't exactly aligned with the direction of the team. You don't think trading Stepan indicated that they knew they weren't competing for a Cup last season, fine, we have differing opinions.

 

[LORDE]

Some people can only see 2-3 moves ahead of them when they're playing a game chess.

Fortunately, our GM isn't one of those guys.

It's like trying to drive down the highway at 70 MPH and only looking right in front of your bumper. Things are likely to go sideways VERY quickly like that.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

It's like trying to drive down the highway at 70 MPH and only looking right in front of your bumper. Things are likely to go sideways VERY quickly like that.

Motherf***ers here straight looking out the back window

 

[LORDE]

What you call lack of patience, I call reality. I'm not saying accelerate anything. Things are fluid, players will become available, others will get hurt. Who here thought the Stralman signing years ago would have gotten that return? No one.

I get it, everyone wants a Hughes or Lafrenierre or whatever embryo is playing midget hockey in Thunderbay. Cause they're always the answer. It's not realistic. If that was the route they were taking, they would have iced a much different team this season. Purposely being bad in this league doesn't give you the first overall pick. And yes, Chytil will get benched, Anderson will spend a year in Hartford and Howden will go invisible at times. That's young players being young players. I remember reading on this site last year people wanting to trade Krieder for Puljarvi, straight up. How would that have worked out? The shiny new object is always better than what you have. Until it's not.

Yeah... why would anyone covet Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Ovechkin, types... they were just embryos when they went in the draft. What have THEY ever accomplished?

We need more Anisimovs, Dubinskys, Callahans, Staals, and Skjeis!

This incarnation of this thread is UNREADABLE

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Some people can only see 2-3 moves ahead of them when they're playing a game chess.

Fortunately, our GM isn't one of those guys.

But if our GM was doing what you wanted him to do, this year's team would be much, much, much different than it is. So go ahead and play chess or hungry hungry hippos and let the pros play hockey.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Ok, retool, rebuild whatever you people want to call it is fine with me. We can talk in circles here all day, and that's fun, but it's clear the fans and management aren't exactly aligned with the direction of the team. You don't think trading Stepan indicated that they knew they weren't competing for a Cup last season, fine, we have differing opinions.

Cup? No, but I’m pretty sure they felt the roster was playoff worthy

 

[Beer League Sniper]

They talked with Thornton and Marleau, but ended up signing Shattenkirk. They ditched a $6.5 million veteran and brought in a $6.65 veteran. I don't see the sharp change of course.

Enough hyperbole. You're smart enough to know that Shattenkirk isn't even remotely the same situation.

Thornton and Marleau both signed 35+ NMC contracts. Shattenkirk was 29, and basically begged to play for us. He took a big discount in term and a smaller one in AAV to sign here.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Yeah... why would anyone covet Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Ovechkin, types... they were just embryos when they went in the draft. What have THEY ever accomplished?

We need more Anisimovs, Dubinskys, Callahans, Staals, and Skjeis!

Who doesn't covet any of those players you mentioned??? Where's the vending machine you can go buy them at? And who wants any of the other guys you mentioned. Hyperbole much? What's even your point with this? Good lord.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

What you call lack of patience, I call reality.

You want reality?

1 Cup in the last 80 ****ing years.

What do Washington, Pittsburgh, and Chicago have in common? They drafted their core. Elite players plucked early. They filled out the rest of our roster through trades and UFA's. Some of the players they traded or signed have moved on, but their core is still there.

Gorton needs to follow the same blueprint. Who's the future face of our franchise? Chytil and Kravtsov? This draft and next years draft are loaded. This is when we need to stock up on as many picks as possible. Signing Panarin is going to prevent us from bottoming out. You may not want to admit this but you're part of the Stay Competitive While Rebuilding Crowd.

I want us to do something we have never done before. I think it's time this team puts themselves in position to draft an elite superstar that we can ultimately build around.

 

[Thirty One]

Enough hyperbole. You're smart enough to know that Shattenkirk isn't even remotely the same situation.

Thornton and Marleau both signed 35+ NMC contracts. Shattenkirk was 29, and basically begged to play for us. He took a big discount in term and a smaller one in AAV to sign here.

I don't understand the distinction, but ok.

Did the Scott Gomez and Marian Gaborik trades also signify the start rebuilds?