Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXIV
- Thread starter Gardner McKay
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NYR Viper
Registered User
Didn't he trade Brassard with three seasons left and 90% of this board had a meltdown?
McDonagh had one year remaining on his contract just like Kreider.
Miller was one year away from group III. Good bye.
20 & 93 are the new Kane and Toews.
LaffyTaffy
Brooklyn-Belarussian
Aside from their style of play being complete different, they are both on very team-friendly contracts. Chicago is paying Toews 10 million. 20 and 93 also don't play the same role on our team as Kane and Toews do on theirs. Quite frankly we have a totally different team structure.
SA16
Sixstring
The difference in salary between Kreider and Panarin is going to be like the same as Strome or Namestnikov vs random cheap forward.
Beer League Sniper
Homeless Man's Rick Nash
I said "young enough," meaning not decrepit. Kreider is a big, fast, disruptive power forward that's only getting better. I don't see any reason why he wouldn't be able to hold up for another 5 years after this contract is up. He clearly takes his health and fitness very seriously, more so than most players.
And, FWIW, I expect to be competing again in 3 years.
- Aug 5, 2010
- 13,871
- 9,509
My reply was a little tongue-in-cheek to remind you of your view re. Brooks' motivations when he posted about resigning Hayes. How my "views" on the insiders' motivations any different?
Otherwise, I already replied earlier that there's not enough insight at this point on the shape of the Rangers future top-6 to make a determination whether Kreider fits in there or not.
"But what if someone offers a crazy return for him, should the Rangers not do it"? Of course you take a crazy return but then I don't want to waste time discussing possibilities that are unlikely. I mean there's a mathematical chance that the Rangers will make playoffs this year but we don't need to talk about this unlikely outcome.
TheBloodyNine
Pure Bred Soviet Savage
Johnson is a Ranger hater. He was was a nothing player in the NHL and he's even worse as an "analyst". He also said he was on an expiring contract, which he isn't, which goes to show you how much he actually knows about what's going on.
Beer League Sniper
Homeless Man's Rick Nash
I thought you could sign an extension up to a year before your current contract is up, unless you're on a one-year deal.
So, Kreider could sign an extension July 1st. That was my impression.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
Well, the problem is Johnson doesn't know that Kreider is not an expiring contract.
Yep thats it. I dont care about the team’s future because i dont think they should or will trade one piece out of how many? So that they can have a future that doesnt resemble one of the Oilers and Coyotes efforts?
Trade everyone, ice a team of kids. Lets see how that works out...lets see how it works out for their development when they are getting bitch slapped every night. When they have to log every minutes against established NHL players in the league who stifle them and their creativity repeatedly, mentally exhausting them, and stunting their development.
I see three scenarios for Kreider
1.) Extend his contract
I get the 7x7 concerns. When you look at Kreider though, he really has had very few injury issues during his career. Its well documented, and my friend use to train with him during the off-season, but the guy is a physical beast. If there was a guy that could last till his mid 30s, he is one that I would bet on. The fact that he is really liked by his teammates, speaks Russians and is a good influence on younger players because of his work habits and training, he is a guy that I would be comfortable making the captain and accepting the risk of a decline down the road. Staal, Smith, Shattenkirk, and Lundqvists cap hits will be gone.
2.) Trade him before the deadline
I think this only makes sense on the condition that a team completely overpays for him. Once the trade is done, I expect to see hfboards and reddit talking about how Gorton fleeced XXXX team. Otherwise I will likely be disappointed.
3.) Trade him next deadline
If you are going to trade him, his value is obviously higher at this trade deadline. But if Panarin is being seriously considered as an option, it might make more sense to wait and see if we can actually sign him. Saying. "Lets trade Kredier and sign Panarin" is a bit of a silly statement when you have no idea if you can even pull it off. If you can sign Panarin, and you dont want to hold on to Kredier, wait and see if you can even get the guy first.
I am of the opinion that the best way to build teams is to take your 22-23 year old players and sign them to their long term contracts then. Like the Skjei contract. You take the risk that they never become the players you hope they will be. But I think its worth the risk. It beats having a guy taking up a huge contract till their mid 30s. But I think Kreider is an exception. Especially for a team that will have no bad contracts in 2 years, needs leadership, and needs a new captain, and currently has no standout alternatives. I see the worst case scenario is that Gorton hopes to sign Panarin, is unable to do so, and decided to move Kreider at next years deadline.
1.) Extend his contract
I get the 7x7 concerns. When you look at Kreider though, he really has had very few injury issues during his career. Its well documented, and my friend use to train with him during the off-season, but the guy is a physical beast. If there was a guy that could last till his mid 30s, he is one that I would bet on. The fact that he is really liked by his teammates, speaks Russians and is a good influence on younger players because of his work habits and training, he is a guy that I would be comfortable making the captain and accepting the risk of a decline down the road. Staal, Smith, Shattenkirk, and Lundqvists cap hits will be gone.
2.) Trade him before the deadline
I think this only makes sense on the condition that a team completely overpays for him. Once the trade is done, I expect to see hfboards and reddit talking about how Gorton fleeced XXXX team. Otherwise I will likely be disappointed.
3.) Trade him next deadline
If you are going to trade him, his value is obviously higher at this trade deadline. But if Panarin is being seriously considered as an option, it might make more sense to wait and see if we can actually sign him. Saying. "Lets trade Kredier and sign Panarin" is a bit of a silly statement when you have no idea if you can even pull it off. If you can sign Panarin, and you dont want to hold on to Kredier, wait and see if you can even get the guy first.
I am of the opinion that the best way to build teams is to take your 22-23 year old players and sign them to their long term contracts then. Like the Skjei contract. You take the risk that they never become the players you hope they will be. But I think its worth the risk. It beats having a guy taking up a huge contract till their mid 30s. But I think Kreider is an exception. Especially for a team that will have no bad contracts in 2 years, needs leadership, and needs a new captain, and currently has no standout alternatives. I see the worst case scenario is that Gorton hopes to sign Panarin, is unable to do so, and decided to move Kreider at next years deadline.
The exaggerations to fit your narrative of trading everyone continue.
They will only trade Kreider if it is kings ransom and it wont be.
Both of those talking heads thought Kreider was an expiring contract. Just another example of throwing guys on TV to bloviate who opine about everything, including things they know nothing about.
When I was growing up, Sportscenter was in it's infancy and it was literally a show of highlights and serious journalists reporting on actual news about teams/upcoming games. I miss that. Now most programming is about opinions/hot takes, and it leads to misinformed BS like what I just watched.
**end old man rant**
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
- 24,787
- 27,764
Trading Hayes and then re-signing him along with Panarin in the offseason would be fun. Right side of the lineup would still be a mess though:
Kreider - Zibanejad
Panarin - Hayes
Chytil (ELC) - Howden (ELC)
Vesey - Andersson (ELC)
Some combination of Kravtsov (ELC), Buchnevich, Fast, Namestnikov, and Strome on the right side.
Kreider - Zibanejad
Panarin - Hayes
Chytil (ELC) - Howden (ELC)
Vesey - Andersson (ELC)
Some combination of Kravtsov (ELC), Buchnevich, Fast, Namestnikov, and Strome on the right side.
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Yeah, I was off on the date. I guess my question is if there are any rules about when you are allowed to talk to a player/agent about an extension. Like if you had to wait till a certain date before you can even discuss it.
The rebuild was certainly not going on in the 2012 and beyond era where we sold off four 1st round picks.
Leetch was drafted 30 years ago... You get where I’m going with this though, right? This may take several additional years and I do think that Gorton is going to try and push for the Cup in 2021/2022, which would be right in the middle of Panarin’s contract and Hank will be here. Still waiting for the Rangers to draft “that guy” who will be an 80 pt forward, it may never happen, and that’s why in situations where Panarin is available at 27, you need to take him. Folks are putting a lot of stock into Kravtsov and Chytl, and they’re not even out of their teens yet. I do not think NY management has that type of patience - Rangers will be looking to push for a cup sooner than a lot of people think. The part that is worrisome is the blueline, that has such muddy uncertainty that that’s what throws things off.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
So you have a guy on a 30-40 goal pace, at 28 years old, with term left
for
A late first round pick (because it's San Jose), and a guy who is drifting dangerously close to bust territory (but ohhhhh, he was drafted 8th overall three years ago!!!)
This, Mike, is why you're commentating and not working in a front office position.
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HatTrick Swayze
Just Be Nice
E-Train
Registered User
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
And for the record, I'm really not interested in hinging my hopes on prospects whose biggest accomplishment to date is that they were taken in the top 10 in 2016.
In other words, if someone is going to float a big proposal involving the Oilers or Sabres, I don't want Pool-Party or the "other" Nylander as the centerpiece.
In other words, if someone is going to float a big proposal involving the Oilers or Sabres, I don't want Pool-Party or the "other" Nylander as the centerpiece.
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
trading everyone with a contract and replacing them with draft picks and players on elc's sounds great. it isn't reality but it sounds good.
this weird obsession with vilifying guys like hayes and kreider and now even mika because they have the unmitigated gall to get older and play better and not win multiple cups- and then they want to get paid !! imagine that.
then we label them too expensive and not "elite" or "nothing more than a 2/3C" or "only 55 point player". blah blah blah. meanwhile, we draft bums and safe players and average goalies at 39OA we've developed exactly ZERO elite players in the past 10 years.
cant these guys just stop aging until we win ?
it took ovechkin 13 years to hoist his cup. 13 YEARS !!!!!
show me a team thats won a cup who's done the "sell everyone" thing ?
ill wait.
this weird obsession with vilifying guys like hayes and kreider and now even mika because they have the unmitigated gall to get older and play better and not win multiple cups- and then they want to get paid !! imagine that.
then we label them too expensive and not "elite" or "nothing more than a 2/3C" or "only 55 point player". blah blah blah. meanwhile, we draft bums and safe players and average goalies at 39OA we've developed exactly ZERO elite players in the past 10 years.
cant these guys just stop aging until we win ?
it took ovechkin 13 years to hoist his cup. 13 YEARS !!!!!
show me a team thats won a cup who's done the "sell everyone" thing ?
ill wait.
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