Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXIV

[Ori]

I'm not sure what you're position is with this post.

I don't believe that the "talent is there."

That said, I will say there are couple of talented players. And they, by and large, are having their best seasons playing under Quinn (Zib, Kreider, Hayes)

Yes true @SingnBluesOnBroadway - I know I have talked about the coach recently, but it`s a whole coaching staff. Maybe they need to upgrade player evaluation part of the staff on daily basis. And I`m still unsure about Ruff`s role - he has not been a massive success here.

 

[NYR Viper]

I mean, I don't think the organization can replace a bottom six winger. There is no organizational winger depth. Guys like Lettieri are non prospects, and nothing else is ready.

Could Nieves be that type of guy? I think they need to let Lettieri play through his growing pains a bit. He's too good for the AHL

 

[Savant]

Could Nieves be that type of guy? I think they need to let Lettieri play through his growing pains a bit. He's too good for the AHL

Lettieri is a quadruple A guy, and I do not believe Nieves is a wing. I also dont thinn they should be paying free agents for that role. Over paying bottom six players in very bad for the cap. At least with Fast, you know what you are getting.

 

[NYR Viper]

Lettieri is a quadruple A guy, and I do not believe Nieves is a wing. I also dont thinn they should be paying free agents for that role. Over paying bottom six players in very bad for the cap. At least with Fast, you know what you are getting.

I don't think they would need to overpay though. Just wait out the market. Chiasson is a good example.

 

[nyr2k2]

I'll trade Fast or Vesey if someone wants to overpay for them, or at least give very fair value. I don't want to make moves just to make moves. Particularly with Vesey. He's a couple years younger, still has a year left on a reasonable deal, and seems to be getting a bit better still. Again--someone makes me a very good offer, sure. If it's just a mid-round pick and a spare part? I'll hold onto those guys. They still have value, even on a team in transition. I don't believe the best way to rebuild is to strip every element from the car but the engine and drive train. There are other pieces worth keeping.

 

[Savant]

I don't think they would need to overpay though. Just wait out the market. Chiasson is a good example.

More failures than successes

 

[Thirty One]

https://www.tsn.ca/panarin-jumps-to-the-top-of-tsn-s-trade-bait-board-1.1249434

Not sure if posted already but TSN's tradecenter posted their top 45 players for the deadline. Rangers have 5 players on the list.

5) Zucarello
15) Hayes
24) Kreider
35) McQuaid
39) Namestnikov

They don't really give their criteria for the ranking, but Hayes at 15 is weird. Almost a certainty to be traded and a lot better player than lots of players above him.

 

[nyr2k2]

Could Nieves be that type of guy? I think they need to let Lettieri play through his growing pains a bit. He's too good for the AHL

IDK about Vesey, and IDK about him being too good for the AHL. There are always a bunch of guys in the AHL that are league veterans scoring a PPG or more. Holland has become that guy. Greg Carey, Chris Terry, Chris Mueller, Chris Bourque, Newbury, etc. There'd be a couple dozen more if a lot of them didn't leave to play overseas. I'm not suggesting that Lettieri shouldn't get one more look, but guys that can produce like him in the AHL but not the NHL are all over the place. The fact that he is going to be 24/25 nest season doesn't really help him. He's in the same boat as Nieves and Fogarty--they kind of had to make it this year or maybe not ever.

My thing with Lettieri is that I don't really see growing pains. I just see a guy that comes up and looks invisible. I don't see him just struggling with execution or anything, I just see a guy floating around not really knowing what to do when the game speeds up. That's the big difference--he can physically keep up, but I'm not sure if he can mentally keep up.

If someone wants to acquire him I'm all for it. I'd take a late pick or a younger guy who maybe still has some perceived potential.

 

[Lion Hound]

They don't really give their criteria for the ranking, but Hayes at 15 is weird. Almost a certainty to be traded and a lot better player than lots of players above him.

I thought the same thing. Even when peeking on other clubs forums here, Hayes is mentioned often.

With the Panarin saga growing i can clearly see him as the #1. Jarmo's comments to me were very telling. But...Really thought of Hayes as top 5 for sure. Again, Big Rangy two way center. They always have considerable worth.

 

[nyr2k2]

They don't really give their criteria for the ranking, but Hayes at 15 is weird. Almost a certainty to be traded and a lot better player than lots of players above him.

That was my thought. The only reason I'd have Zucc over Hayes, for instance, is the cost to acquire Zucc will assuredly be lower. They're both rentals so I don't know what else it would be, since, as you said, Hayes is superior.

 

[nyr2k2]

I thought the same thing. Even when peeking on other clubs forums here, Hayes is mentioned often.

With the Panarin saga growing i can clearly see him as the #1. Jarmo's comments to me were very telling. But...Really thought of Hayes as top 5 for sure. Again, Big Rangy two way center. They always have considerable worth.

Right. And if you want to look at him as more than a rental, the cost to sign him will be substantial but I don't think astronomical.

 

[Edge]

They don't really give their criteria for the ranking, but Hayes at 15 is weird. Almost a certainty to be traded and a lot better player than lots of players above him.

I wonder if they slid him down based on the fact that Zucc is probably a goner regardless of the cost, whereas there is still the (slight) possibility that the Rangers actually sign Hayes.

 

[NYR Viper]

 

[FIRE DRURY]

I'll trade Fast or Vesey if someone wants to overpay for them, or at least give very fair value. I don't want to make moves just to make moves. Particularly with Vesey. He's a couple years younger, still has a year left on a reasonable deal, and seems to be getting a bit better still. Again--someone makes me a very good offer, sure. If it's just a mid-round pick and a spare part? I'll hold onto those guys. They still have value, even on a team in transition. I don't believe the best way to rebuild is to strip every element from the car but the engine and drive train. There are other pieces worth keeping.

I think they have similar values. 3rd and meh prospect.

With the success rate of 3rd rounders being so low, I'd rather just hang on to them. @jas brought up a good point not too long ago about them being throw-ins for bigger deals. That's something I can get behind.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I'll trade Fast or Vesey if someone wants to overpay for them, or at least give very fair value. I don't want to make moves just to make moves. Particularly with Vesey. He's a couple years younger, still has a year left on a reasonable deal, and seems to be getting a bit better still. Again--someone makes me a very good offer, sure. If it's just a mid-round pick and a spare part? I'll hold onto those guys. They still have value, even on a team in transition. I don't believe the best way to rebuild is to strip every element from the car but the engine and drive train. There are other pieces worth keeping.

Fast is an interesting guy for a contending team. He can kill penalties and augment most team's third lines. He also has value because he can play up on the top 6 is there's need because of an injury or play a lesser role not he 4th line and still be contribute.

But what would be an overpayment for him?

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I think they have similar values. 3rd and meh prospect.

With the success rate of 3rd rounders being so low, I'd rather just hang on to them. @jas brought up a good point not too long ago about them being throw-ins for bigger deals. That's something I can get behind.

If someone offered a second for Fast, I think I'd have to pull the trigger.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I see three scenarios for Kreider

1.) Extend his contract
I get the 7x7 concerns. When you look at Kreider though, he really has had very few injury issues during his career. Its well documented, and my friend use to train with him during the off-season, but the guy is a physical beast. If there was a guy that could last till his mid 30s, he is one that I would bet on. The fact that he is really liked by his teammates, speaks Russians and is a good influence on younger players because of his work habits and training, he is a guy that I would be comfortable making the captain and accepting the risk of a decline down the road. Staal, Smith, Shattenkirk, and Lundqvists cap hits will be gone.

2.) Trade him before the deadline
I think this only makes sense on the condition that a team completely overpays for him. Once the trade is done, I expect to see hfboards and reddit talking about how Gorton fleeced XXXX team. Otherwise I will likely be disappointed.

3.) Trade him next deadline
If you are going to trade him, his value is obviously higher at this trade deadline. But if Panarin is being seriously considered as an option, it might make more sense to wait and see if we can actually sign him. Saying. "Lets trade Kredier and sign Panarin" is a bit of a silly statement when you have no idea if you can even pull it off. If you can sign Panarin, and you dont want to hold on to Kredier, wait and see if you can even get the guy first.

I am of the opinion that the best way to build teams is to take your 22-23 year old players and sign them to their long term contracts then. Like the Skjei contract. You take the risk that they never become the players you hope they will be. But I think its worth the risk. It beats having a guy taking up a huge contract till their mid 30s. But I think Kreider is an exception. Especially for a team that will have no bad contracts in 2 years, needs leadership, and needs a new captain, and currently has no standout alternatives. I see the worst case scenario is that Gorton hopes to sign Panarin, is unable to do so, and decided to move Kreider at next years deadline.

Option 3 is the worst of them IMO

 

[Ola]

Damn, 14 pts in 41 games is so bad for Shatty. He got 5 pts in his last 8 games, too little too late? Still 7 games left, right?, before the deadline.

Game-plan should be, pass the puck to Kevin. Its probably the last shot at moving him.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Damn, 14 pts in 41 games is so bad for Shatty. He got 5 pts in his last 8 games, too little too late? Still 7 games left, right?, before the deadline.

Game-plan should be, pass the puck to Kevin. Its probably the last shot at moving him.

13 games.

 

[Zats Muccarello]

If someone offered a second for Fast, I think I'd have to pull the trigger.

But why would anyone offer that? Can't imagine a team trading a 2nd for a bottom 6 winger. If he played center I could see it.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

If someone offered a second for Fast, I think I'd have to pull the trigger.

What about a late 3rd and meh prospect?

 

[pld459666]

Obviously there isn’t a current one but it hasn’t stopped that from being the ask. Point being, he’ll get more than $9.5M IMO.

Considering hes put off negotiating until after the season, I call BS on the stated "ask" of 12.5

 

[Thirty One]

I wonder if they slid him down based on the fact that Zucc is probably a goner regardless of the cost, whereas there is still the (slight) possibility that the Rangers actually sign Hayes.

OK, but is he less likely to be traded than Brassard? Ferland?

 

[kovazub94]

They don't really give their criteria for the ranking, but Hayes at 15 is weird. Almost a certainty to be traded and a lot better player than lots of players above him.

I thought the same thing. Even when peeking on other clubs forums here, Hayes is mentioned often.

With the Panarin saga growing i can clearly see him as the #1. Jarmo's comments to me were very telling. But...Really thought of Hayes as top 5 for sure. Again, Big Rangy two way center. They always have considerable worth.

I wonder if they slid him down based on the fact that Zucc is probably a goner regardless of the cost, whereas there is still the (slight) possibility that the Rangers actually sign Hayes.

Could the ranking be on a likelihood of being traded? This is the only category I'd rank Zuke higher than Hayes.

 

[MetalJaws]

Relax guys it'll all end up just fine

2019-2020

Kreider - Zib - Panarin
Chytil - Hughes - Kravtsov
Andersson - Howden - Vesey
Strome - Nieves - Fast

Skjei - ADA
Miller - Shatty
Staal - Pionk

Hank
Shesty

Def another down year. Who would complain watching that lineup though!
Fingers crossed!

As I state often, Rangers haven't had a top 3 pick since Brad Park in 1966! We're f***ing due! All is well, this team is bad, trading away Hayes, McQuaid, Buch, Names and Zucc is just fine and drops us in top 3 range for sure.