Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXIV

[Vinny DeAngelo]

COL 1st + Tyson Jost + Shane Bowers + COL 1st ‘20

Put down the crack pipe

 

[Lion Hound]

Keep #20

Plenty of other peices to move out on or before the deadline that will get a decent return.

 

[Trxjw]

The one team that jumps out at me as a possible destination for Kreider is Nashville. We already made a deal with the Preds this year so you know they've been talking. They lost Watson who gives them some bite, and they could use another top-six winger. They also have the kind of pieces that I think would entice the Rangers to listen. Fiala is a highly-skilled roster player who has been inconsistent in his play and could do well with a change of scenery. Poille has been dealing draft picks like crazy. Then of course the obvious prospect is Fabbro who of course has a Quinn connection. Tolvanen is talented but incredibly raw outside of his shot.

Poille said in an interview about a week ago that he likes all of his lines except the 2nd line. Turris has been out with an injury but they've had trouble stabilizing that line even when he was healthy. Send them Kreider and Zucc and they have the makings of a damn good 2nd line. Sets up perfectly as a 2nd power play unit to boot. They'd have plenty of room to sign Zucc to an extension.

Perhaps the most interesting part is that they're not only in full blown "win now" mode but are poised for a bit of an arms race with another team in their division. Gorton has pieces that both Nashville and Winnipeg would want. Hayes to Winnipeg and Kreider to Nashville.

 

[Waivers]

If we trade Kreider and Zibanejad, then the “rebuild” will take much, much longer. I thought Gorton make it seem that this was going to be an expedited rebuild or did he forecast that this will take 5+ years? I cannot see the Rangers being so completely removed from being relevant for an additional 5 years on top of the sell offs from two years ago. I know a lot of folks just want to keep selling off any asset who is not on a ELC but that to me is unrealistic and not ideal for success.

 

[Machinehead]

If we trade Kreider and Zibanejad, then the “rebuild” will take much, much longer. I thought Gorton make it seem that this was going to be an expedited rebuild or did he forecast that this will take 5+ years? I cannot see the Rangers being so completely removed from being relevant for an additional 5 years on top of the sell offs from two years ago. I know a lot of folks just want to keep selling off any asset who is not on a ELC but that to me is unrealistic and not ideal for success.

Dolan is not going to do a 5 year thing.

 

[SA16]

Trade Kreider Hayes Zucc Namestnikov/Strome

Sign two of Duchene Stone Karlsson Panarin

Trading Kreider and using the money on Panarin or Stone seems easily correct to me. It’ll cost an addition 2-3M in salary for better players at the same age while also adding a ton of value in assets.

 

[Synergy27]

If we trade Kreider and Zibanejad, then the “rebuild” will take much, much longer. I thought Gorton make it seem that this was going to be an expedited rebuild or did he forecast that this will take 5+ years? I cannot see the Rangers being so completely removed from being relevant for an additional 5 years on top of the sell offs from two years ago. I know a lot of folks just want to keep selling off any asset who is not on a ELC but that to me is unrealistic and not ideal for success.

This rebuild is going to last as long as it takes to find a cornerstone skater prospect. People don't realize that this rebuild has been going on since Brian Leetch was traded. Hughes please.

 

[LORDE]

Dolan is not going to do a 5 year thing.

Dolan has no choice.

None.

We are stuck until we get 1-2 elite

 

[Machinehead]

Dolan has no choice.

None.

We are stuck until we get 1-2 elite

He does have a choice. He decides who the General Manager is.

 

[bobbop]

To me, Kreider has the most value of any of the forwards mentioned. That second year on a value contract is very important. I also have felt for a long time that the perceptions his play is greater than reality.

For Kreider, I want any deal to start with a blue chip prospect. Think Cody Glass, Owen Tippett or similar. Build from there. Vegas might be just the team to do business with.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Rangers kept Kreider and tried to move him at the draft for a top 5 or 6 pick.

But all of that said, resigning him isn’t a bad option either. He will cost $7MM X at least 6, but remember the cap will be moving quickly with the US TV deal expiring (and rights likely doubling) in two years.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

You're right, I forgot every UFA player we want to sign over the next few years is frothing at the mouth to play with Kreider

They arent frothing at the mouth to play with Fast I can tell you that.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Trade Kreider Hayes Zucc Namestnikov/Strome

Sign two of Duchene Stone Karlsson Panarin

Trading Kreider and using the money on Panarin or Stone seems easily correct to me. It’ll cost an addition 2-3M in salary for better players at the same age while also adding a ton of value in assets.

Would be tough to sign 2 even with trading Kreider, would have to either buyout Smith or trade him with not much retention.

 

[LORDE]

He does have a choice. He decides who the General Manager is.

So you feel the hands off owner of the NYR who has written blank checks over and over and over and over again to pay for over the hill or bad players is going to fire the fairly newly appointed GM after 1 yr of a rebuild?

I mean... I respect u as a poster but plz. The path is ongoing and barely 11 months old... firing Gorton after 3 or 4 years would be ridiculous!

A rudderless ship isn’t what we want. ANY direction is better than no direction at all.

 

[Elliman]

I believe Lundqvist thinks we will sign EK & Panarin. If we don’t (which is what I expect) he will then consider being dealt. If you keep CK, Zibs and add EK+Panarin the king will truly believe he can not only get this team back into the playoffs but make another win at the cup.....

I’d love to sign and see EK skate up and down the garden ice but for me it only makes sense if it’s an amazing contract so he can play with his buddies and get to play in NY/MSG with Hank.....

Personally I think nobody is going to do us any favors and we move Zucc, Hayes, Freddy and McQuiad this season.

Between the draft and 2019-2020 deadline we move Kreider, Lundqvist (he’ll ask for a deal for a shot at a cup, we’ll eat half the salary), Shattenkirk, Vlad, Strome, VZ and Fast...

Rangers will also look to trade any short term vets they sign this upcoming offseason which they will use to plug in the open spots up and down the line up. Expect character type players for leadership. Don’t expect much back at the deadline for them.

This season is a wash. Get high pick. Trade for picks & kids. Willing to eat salary for 1-3 years.

Next season is a wash. Kids get more playing time, bigger roles and continue to grow.

Season 2020-2021 Is the season I believe we’ll make a huge splash in free agency.

 

[egelband]

Are the Jets still looking to move Trouba?

Don’t know. But if the Jets are selling now, we’ve got problems.

 

[egelband]

I agree with almost everything you said here in a more traditional sense - and what I mean by that is if this team was in a different place, competing with a veteran core and a veteran coach, I'd agree with it 100%. But they're not, and that makes this situation more tenuous. This is a young team with a rookie coach and, by all accounts, Buchnevich seems to be overtly ignoring.....something....coming from Quinn and it's really unacceptable at this stage. At least that's my opinion. Anyway, I keep harping on this for 2 seasons:

1. Buchnevich is not offensively talented enough to be pulling something like that. You brought up Kovalev before. That guy was literally one of the most talented players I've ever seen from an offensive standpoint. My mouth would be completely shut if Buchnevich had even a hint of that type of talent in him.

2. I just don't understand what's stopping him from listening to the coach. It seems like a situation that's so avoidable. All he needs to do is engage himself more. It seems so simple, and it aggravates me when a player can't pull himself together to do such a thing at this level.

If Buchnevich is tuning out and turning off a second coach, we may be looking at headcase player. I don’t know... there’s still plenty of time. But I hope we’re just mid-reading things.

 

[cheech70]

Dolan is not going to do a 5 year thing.

Good chance Dolan is selling the team getting into the music business LA and Vegas

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Duchene will end up like Chris Drury. I have no interest in having him here on a big contract. Frankly, Panarin as well. He will be old by the time we are competing again.

We seem to never learn our lessons of signing FA's to huge money. When has a marquee name worked out for us in this way? The argument can be made for Nash, I guess.

It's a bad way to build a team. It has repeatedly failed us. Unless we get a shot at a guy like Tavares, who is an absolutely can't miss in terms of X amount of years of production (barring injury), or we get someone just entering their prime years (e.g. 24/25, not like Panarin who will be 28 or Duchene 29).

Time and time again I have been fooled into thinking Richards, Shattenkirk, Drury, Gomez, Redden, etc are the pieces that were needed to fix the team or put them over the top. The fact is, very few players can maintain their high level of play into their 30's. Giving 6 or 7 year deals to a 28 year old means we will almost certainly be saddled with another awful contract within a few years.

That being said, having seen it happen time and time again, I'm sure we will end up doing something just like this and the cycle will repeat itself without another cup.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

You can also add Karlsson to that group who comes with severe baggage. Aging, obvious decline in play (albeit still at a high level), consistent injury history. He is a recipe for disaster.

 

[EpicDing]

Duchene will end up like Chris Drury. I have no interest in having him here on a big contract. Frankly, Panarin as well. He will be old by the time we are competing again.

We seem to never learn our lessons of signing FA's to huge money. When has a marquee name worked out for us in this way? The argument can be made for Nash, I guess.

It's a bad way to build a team. It has repeatedly failed us. Unless we get a shot at a guy like Tavares, who is an absolutely can't miss in terms of X amount of years of production (barring injury), or we get someone just entering their prime years (e.g. 24/25, not like Panarin who will be 28 or Duchene 29).

Time and time again I have been fooled into thinking Richards, Shattenkirk, Drury, Gomez, Redden, etc are the pieces that were needed to fix the team or put them over the top. The fact is, very few players can maintain their high level of play into their 30's. Giving 6 or 7 year deals to a 28 year old means we will almost certainly be saddled with another awful contract within a few years.

That being said, having seen it happen time and time again, I'm sure we will end up doing something just like this and the cycle will repeat itself without another cup.

Nash was a trade. Gaborik worked out.

 

[Machinehead]

So you feel the hands off owner of the NYR who has written blank checks over and over and over and over again to pay for over the hill or bad players is going to fire the fairly newly appointed GM after 1 yr of a rebuild?

I mean... I respect u as a poster but plz. The path is ongoing and barely 11 months old... firing Gorton after 3 or 4 years would be ridiculous!

A rudderless ship isn’t what we want. ANY direction is better than no direction at all.

I agree with the premise.

That said, if the Rangers suck enough for this to hit Dolan's bottom line, he suddenly doesn't become so hands off.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Nash was a trade. Gaborik worked out.

I know Nash was a trade, but he was still a marquee, non-homegrown player, thus providing a similar context to the other players I mentioned.

It's true Gaborik, for the most part, worked out (although I would argue it wasn't quite a home-run due to seasons predictably plagued by injuries).

However, Gaborik was younger than both Panarin or Duchene at 27 (still older than I think we should be signing guys nowadays). Moreover, his contract was only for 5 years, not 6-7, which is a huge difference. Signing Panarin, at 28, for 7 years, brings him to age 35. Gaborik's contract ended at 32. Even further, since Gaborik's time in the league, it has progressively trended younger.

I really don't see how anyone could really make a strong argument for why we should sign Panarin, EK or Duchene this year. We are not going to be contenders next season, this much is obvious. It's very likely we are facing at least 2-3 years of non-playoff success. It just makes no sense to bring in long-term committments that will be on the tail end of their careers once we are able to compete again.

The only reason a team should be signing an FA like Panarin is to put them over the top. Bringing in a 28 year old to aid in a rebuild is just plain stupid.

 

[kovazub94]

23:37

Darren Dreger was on Pierre LeBrun's & Scott Burnside's podcast today. Dreger mentioned the Rangers having five players on the TSN trade list. Hayes. Zuccarello. McQuaid. Kreider. Namestnikov. Dreger thinks Gorton has a strong appetite to trade if not all of them but as many as he can. Dreger said Gorton will need to move some of those players before the deadline because you can't make every deal at the deadline. Trading Kreider would be a significant deal. He was referring to an earlier discussion in the podcast.

It's a sellers market because there aren't many declared sellers. The playoff race in the west is wide open. Some of the non-playoff teams in the east don't have much to sell.

These insiders are wrong about Kreider. They need more activity and splashy trades to talk about. That’s all they care about. Every TDL recently they talk it up going into it and then act surprised that there was so little action. Kind of like your assessment of Brooks’ takes on bringing FAs, resigning own...

 

[Wind Waker]

They arent frothing at the mouth to play with Fast I can tell you that.

I agree, but that doesn't invalidate my point.

 

[EpicDing]

I know Nash was a trade, but he was still a marquee, non-homegrown player, thus providing a similar context to the other players I mentioned.

It's true Gaborik, for the most part, worked out (although I would argue it wasn't quite a home-run due to seasons predictably plagued by injuries).

However, Gaborik was younger than both Panarin or Duchene at 27 (still older than I think we should be signing guys nowadays). Moreover, his contract was only for 5 years, not 6-7, which is a huge difference. Signing Panarin, at 28, for 7 years, brings him to age 35. Gaborik's contract ended at 32. Even further, since Gaborik's time in the league, it has progressively trended younger.

I really don't see how anyone could really make a strong argument for why we should sign Panarin, EK or Duchene this year. We are not going to be contenders next season, this much is obvious. It's very likely we are facing at least 2-3 years of non-playoff success. It just makes no sense to bring in long-term committments that will be on the tail end of their careers once we are able to compete again.

The only reason a team should be signing an FA like Panarin is to put them over the top. Bringing in a 28 year old to aid in a rebuild is just plain stupid.

I don't have a problem with Nash's tenure here, but I get your point. Really just playing devil's advocate.