Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXIV

[kovazub94]

Because the expectations are wrong.

Expectations are subjective. If your expectations are different from Quinn's which do you think should get a benefit of a doubt or be trusted and which should not?
Quinn's expectations are not based on where Buchnevich was drafted (similar to it's how it's not based on where Strome was drafted) but based on the skillset he sees in practices or games.

As Buch's fan I often specifically follow his on-ice movements and action. As Buch's fan I UNDERSTAND Quinn's actions.

 

[Ori]

Have a weekly "Least Valuable Player" award.

Yes that`s a good suggestion so if someone struggle for some reasons - it just mean we have better chance getting a top #3 draft pick in 2019 even if it cost us games this season.

 

[LORDE]

That Larry article pretty much sums up and confirms what many have been speculating here.

Buch is not practicing or preparing well. Two coaches, same result, same player. Who’s fault?

End of story.

If I were Buch I would tape that article with the last line highlighted to my bathroom mirror.

If it happens, I’d pack it with me to my next city and tape it there after I move.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

You mean start losing?

Yup dump Hayes, Zucc and maybe Kreider.. drive the ship into the rocks don't wait for the tide

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

People continually want to rush a process that can and will only fail if rushed. We are finally on the right path to building something organically (an overused but appropriate word here) and folks are talking about contending next year?!?!

We don’t even have one elite/great piece in this team.

Next year we may very well be worse! It takes time

I would be a little concerned if they don't show any progress from the trade deadline last year to next year. This should be their bottom out season.

 

[Ori]

Because the expectations are wrong.

Yes true the players will figure it out too - just matter of time.

- I hope Jeff Gorton will do something before the TDL - Kyle Dubas was active last monday to improve their blueline. Hayes won`t increase his value at TDL for instant - maybe consider to start move some players.

 

[True Blue]

Yup dump Hayes, Zucc and maybe Kreider.. drive the ship into the rocks don't wait for the tide

You don't think that Gorton is looking out for the best deal possible with Hayes and Zucc? Do you think if he calls teams up and demands that they surrender prospects and picks for Zucc that they will simply turn them over?

As for Kreider, if you truly want a true tank job, go ahead and trade him and ZBad. They you will have 19 and 20 year olds trying to lead the team. Ask Edmonton how that has worked out for them. Again, everyone has a market price, but if a team wants Kreider, it is going to be a king's ransom that includes a first round pick and two prospects, one of which is the crown jewel of the organization. Yeah, it's going to hurt.

 

[LORDE]

I would be a little concerned if they don't show any progress from the trade deadline last year to next year. This should be their bottom out season.

What if they deal Hayes and Zucc and then don’t win the lottery top-2... then Hank retires in off season and or next year deals with injuries? What if they trade Kreider too? Or if Zbad gets injured next year?

Also, who’s playing defense next season other than those already here?

They’ll be as bad and worse if two or more of the above occur

 

[Leonardo87]

Have a weekly "Least Valuable Player" award.

Feel like this is going into Major League territory, lol.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

That Larry article pretty much sums up and confirms what many have been speculating here.

Buch is not practicing or preparing well. Two coaches, same result, same player. Who’s fault?

End of story.

If I were Buch I would tape that article with the last line highlighted to my bathroom mirror.

If it happens, I’d pack it with me to my next city and tape it there after I move.

Who cares if he takes his job seriously, apparently effort is “overrated”

That really has to be one of the most ignorant, out of touch things I’ve ever read on here in my 9 years of posting

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

This is such a myopic view. How do you know that isn't hasn't affected the scoresheet? It's not like we've won a lot of games.

The bottom line is that Quinn has asked Buchnevich to do certain things and he's not doing them. You don't need to analyze it any further than that. It isn't all about production. If it was, Zherdev would still be in the NHL and Pirri would be an all-star.

Good points. And I hate to play a card like this, but anyone who doesn't understand a wider impact being at play here hasn't played team sports. While much tougher to quantify, the atmosphere that a player with attitude problems who isn't willing to put in the work creates across the team is toxic, no matter how talented he is. What kind of message does it send to, say, a player like Chytil who is trying to become a more complete player if a teammate like Buchnevich waltzes into the top 6 every night while loafing it in practice, etc?

 

[LORDE]

Feel like this is going into Major League territory, lol.

Slap shot actually

 

[Tawnos]

Good points. And I hate to play a card like this, but anyone who doesn't understand a wider impact being at play here hasn't played team sports. While much tougher to quantify, the atmosphere that a player with attitude problems who isn't willing to put in the work creates across the team is toxic, no matter how talented he is. What kind of message does it send to, say, a player like Chytil who is trying to become a more complete player if a teammate like Buchnevich waltzes into the top 6 every night while loafing it in practice, etc?

I agree with this, but I also wanted to say that I never have gotten the feeling that the problem with Buchnevich is work ethic. Mainly in the sense that I separate work ethic from engagement, or more specifically, whether a player is imposing his will on the play around him. How does a player's hard work manifest itself? You can work hard and still be ineffective.

Kreider is a really good example of a player who is sometimes on in this regard and sometimes off (though more consistently as his career progresses). He's always working hard, but some nights his hard work has a different impact than others. Buchnevich I think seems to be off pretty often. More so than work ethic, this is a mental thing.

 

[Crease]

Feel like this is going into Major League territory, lol.

Every time the Rangers win, they take a piece of clothing off a Jim Dolan cutout.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Good points. And I hate to play a card like this, but anyone who doesn't understand a wider impact being at play here hasn't played team sports. While much tougher to quantify, the atmosphere that a player with attitude problems who isn't willing to put in the work creates across the team is toxic, no matter how talented he is. What kind of message does it send to, say, a player like Chytil who is trying to become a more complete player if a teammate like Buchnevich waltzes into the top 6 every night while loafing it in practice, etc?

we dont know if "loafing" is accurate.

ADA probably "loafed" too yet his on ice production is as good as any dman on this roster and certainly better than many who play nearly every game. does that make him teflon like 44 is ?

this idea that every personality is toxic- i dont believe this is the case with buch at all btw, if they are human and show the effects of being yo-yo'd seems to me to be very robotic and not understanding that these guys are human and all very competitive and are aware of the numbers and more importantly, take their job every seriously.

quinn is running this NHL team like its an NCAA program made up of kids who dont use a razor and have never played more than 40 games a season.

im not buying this bad attitude thing. buchnevich needs to play with players not named mcleod.

buch on the 4th line is a ticket to failure for his kid and low and behold, his "intentions" suffer. imagine that.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

What if they deal Hayes and Zucc and then don’t win the lottery top-2... then Hank retires in off season and or next year deals with injuries? What if they trade Kreider too? Or if Zbad gets injured next year?

Also, who’s playing defense next season other than those already here?

They’ll be as bad and worse if two or more of the above occur

I expect them to trade both AND not get the 1st or 2nd pick. Hank isn't retiring, that would be a shocker. You can't factor in injuries in regards to a rebuild, they can happen to any team. If they trade Kredier or Zib, I would assume its for immediate help today and for futures as opposed to Hayes or Zucc, which will probably be for futures. Chityl, Anderson, Howden should improve maybe Kravtsov and Lindgren step in and contribute. I'm not saying they're a playoff lock next year, but I think they'll stabilize.

 

[True Blue]

Feel like this is going into Major League territory, lol.

Ahh....I was wondering who would pick up on that. This is becoming what the scene reminds me off.

The real issue with the Rangers is that they are clearly being coddled too much.

 

[True Blue]

quinn is running this NHL team like its an NCAA program made up of kids who dont use a razor and have never played more than 40 games a season.

By demanding accountability?

im not buying this bad attitude thing. buchnevich needs to play with players not named mcleod.

So now he is to be rewarded for floating and not doing what his coaches demand of him?

buch on the 4th line is a ticket to failure for his kid and low and behold, his "intentions" suffer. imagine that.

Maybe he should do the right things from the 4th line with the right intentions, and then he would no longer be on the 4th line. See Nametsnikov for future reference.

 

[effen]

You mean start losing?

If Gorton controls everything to the point he can make Quinn coach to lose, he should go the extra mile and make the players play to lose too.

No half measures, Gorton.

 

[effen]

offdacrossbar that's a lot of wishcasting with Buchnevich and Quinn.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I agree with this, but I also wanted to say that I never have gotten the feeling that the problem with Buchnevich is work ethic. Mainly in the sense that I separate work ethic from engagement, or more specifically, whether a player is imposing his will on the play around him. How does a player's hard work manifest itself? You can work hard and still be ineffective.

Kreider is a really good example of a player who is sometimes on in this regard and sometimes off (though more consistently as his career progresses). He's always working hard, but some nights his hard work has a different impact than others. Buchnevich I think seems to be off pretty often. More so than work ethic, this is a mental thing.

I don't know if I completely agree. I think Buchnevich only works hard when the puck is on his stick. Perhaps I am conflating work ethic with an unwillingness to engage in other areas of the game. Either way, it's inexcusable.

 

[Gardner McKay]

we dont know if "loafing" is accurate.

ADA probably "loafed" too yet his on ice production is as good as any dman on this roster and certainly better than many who play nearly every game. does that make him teflon like 44 is ?

this idea that every personality is toxic- i dont believe this is the case with buch at all btw, if they are human and show the effects of being yo-yo'd seems to me to be very robotic and not understanding that these guys are human and all very competitive and are aware of the numbers and more importantly, take their job every seriously.

quinn is running this NHL team like its an NCAA program made up of kids who dont use a razor and have never played more than 40 games a season.

im not buying this bad attitude thing. buchnevich needs to play with players not named mcleod.

buch on the 4th line is a ticket to failure for his kid and low and behold, his "intentions" suffer. imagine that.

And what exactly is wrong with that? It isn't like professional athletes never have their effort questioned...

The expectation is to win. You need to do certain things to win. When the coach doesn't see the things he feels are necessary for winning (or at least, conducive to winning) why can't he hold players accountable? We have swung the pendulum from hating the Country Club atmosphere we had under AV to criticizing Quinn for accountability of our players. You know why he is harder on the younger guys? Because they are unfinished products and there is still an opportunity to weed out some of the bad habits. But it isn't as if he doesn't hold the older guys accountable.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Less than a month until the TDL, I'd like to hear some Rangers rumors to give us some new things to discuss.

 

[Edge]

And what exactly is wrong with that? It isn't like professional athletes never have their effort questioned...

The expectation is to win. You need to do certain things to win. When the coach doesn't see the things he feels are necessary for winning (or at least, conducive to winning) why can't he hold players accountable? We have swung the pendulum from hating the Country Club atmosphere we had under AV to criticizing Quinn for accountability of our players. You know why he is harder on them? Because they are unfinished products and there is still an opportunity to weed out some of the bad habits.

We could have every type of personality imaginable behind the bench and there will always be something someone doesn't like or doesn't agree with.

But overall, I have no problem with Quinn pushing these guys.

 

[Off Sides]

All this ideal compete level stuff sounds nice until the roster is comprised of lesser talents who work hard.