Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXIV
- Thread starter Gardner McKay
- Start date
- Status
Well the difference to me for Contending vs tanking. I’m talking about trying to reach the playoffs vs trying to tank for 1st overall. Will they be true contenders next year, no of course not but like to see this team grow and get better, and then in a few years who knows.
I’d rather they get the 1st overall than sneak in.
This team is so far away. They could 100000% UFA their way into the playoffs next year but they shouldn’t.
Yeah I hear ya. It’s wise to do this the right way and not end up like a Buffalo or Edmonton.
True. And what compounds the issue is he seems to pout at the first signs of adversity. Quinn has shown a propensity to move guys up and down the lineup. He also demands his team to practice often, and practice hard.
Brooks' article on him suggests that this most recent benching has more to do about how he practiced coming out of the break.
This isn't a difficult equation. Buchnevich needs to work harder away from the puck and be engaged in practice. This "he is what he is" crap is deflecting the problem away from the player, where this issue so obviously lies at the moment.
The Rangers ability/inability to lay off of Panarin will be a major indicator of what the plan is for this team long-term.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
It's always hard to judge someone on effort. But I'm going to do it! He doesn't seem passionate about the game. There's no fire in his game. If he's not scoring, I don't see a determination to do something else well. Hit somebody. Back check. Fore check. Keep a puck in the zone. Cause a turnover. It's not enough to quit/pout/coast/ just because you're not doing the hardest thing to do: score. He's not established or productive enough to deal with or accept "he is what he is".
We've seen a guy like Ryan Strome come in—a guy who two teams have already given up on—and find a ways contribute to the team. And sometimes (usually?) its not in flashy or apparent ways. It's what you said: away from the puck or in the corners.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
SA16
Sixstring
Strome has been contributing less than Buchnevich it's just that their expectations are different. He's scoring less than him and getting outscored more than him.
Over the last 30 games (since Strome became a Ranger) Howden has the worst CF% in the league. Strome has the 12th worst. He's also not scoring himself.
The main reason the perception of Strome is that he's playing well is because he is not Spooner and not expected to score. The team has not been good when he's been playing.
Over the last 30 games (since Strome became a Ranger) Howden has the worst CF% in the league. Strome has the 12th worst. He's also not scoring himself.
The main reason the perception of Strome is that he's playing well is because he is not Spooner and not expected to score. The team has not been good when he's been playing.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
Or is he contributing beyond just the score sheet? There's probably some fancy stat that I'm not aware of.
I think my point remains, though. The natural reaction is to look at scoring—but is he doing other things? Evidently if Quinn keeps playing him.
I understand that`s the coach view at the moment: Quinn believes that he need to work harder in puck battles and have better defensive efforts. Although you don`t reach 43 points in a different system and coach last season with couple of tricks in his overall skillset. Pavel is a highly skilled talent so my point is still rock solid, and I sometimes overlook Larry Brooks based on his reasoning and look at the bigger picture. Because Larry tend to write in a political manner especially with a Rangers who has an inexperienced NHL coach in his first season at NHL level based on coaching. So in Larry case it`s much easier to go after the player instead and talk about effort and work ethnic. We just approach Pavel`s struggle differently, but that is all fine and normal to have different opinions.
Anyway about a completely different topic concerning drafting - Rangers really need Jack Hughes at the summer draft 2019 coming from a Canuck fan too and he start to get some subs on Youtube.
SA16
Sixstring
If the sum of all other contributions do not end up affecting the score then what is the purpose of those contributions?
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
If their expectations are different, why are you using the same metrics to judge them?
SA16
Sixstring
Im in agreement completely.
Thats why it's so difficult for me to comprehend how people can take a position that is basically "throw this guy out there every night despite his attitude/lack of worth ethic because he might get you 40-50 points"
Thats a sacrifice you potentially make for a 70-80 point player....and there seems to be some delusions of grandeur that this is what Buchnevich can become if he just got playing time. I don't see it, at all.
- Sep 17, 2007
- 24,967
- 22,936
This is such a myopic view. How do you know that isn't hasn't affected the scoresheet? It's not like we've won a lot of games.
The bottom line is that Quinn has asked Buchnevich to do certain things and he's not doing them. You don't need to analyze it any further than that. It isn't all about production. If it was, Zherdev would still be in the NHL and Pirri would be an all-star.
What do you propose he does? Order Gorton to penalize players for scoring goals? Scratch players for hard play? Send Henke on a two month vacation? Not only trade Hayes and Zucc, but trade Kreider and Zbad for whatever deal he can get?
Have a weekly "Least Valuable Player" award.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
Even when player expectations are "correct" (whatever the hell that means), a player who is meeting them looks better than a player who isn't, even if the player who isn't is performing better in reality. That's the exact situation you're arguing against. There's a word for this: quixotic.
Off Sides
Registered User
- Sep 8, 2008
- 9,755
- 5,585
To me that is where the faith has to come into play concerning later 1st rounders and beyond, Rangers are essentially going to have to beat the odds and find a way to either move up in the draft, or draft players that should have been taken earlier in those drafts.
It's not like they do not at least have some track record of doing so, while not elite, since 2000 past pick #16 they've found Skjei, Buch, Fast, Kreider, Stepan, Hagelin, Anisimov, Dubinsky, Callahan, Tyutin, Zidlicky, Moore. (some of which they turned into Nash, etc)
If they can replicate that over a shorter span of years since they should have more picks, plus use their own earlier picks on a tier of better players, (hopefully a tier of players who are on par with the best in the league) it could be pretty good. No guarantees of course but the alternative is to basically do what they had been doing prior to the rebuild, which we have seen carries no guarantees either.
It's not like I enjoy the odds either way, yet at the very least in the draft they have some chance to get something(s) really good who would be cost controlled for a pretty long time, which I just don't see them ever being able to attain any other way short of another Gomez for McD like trade which are pretty darn rare.
It isn't just a difference in usage or role expectations. No one is watching Strome play and saying "Man, I wish he would hit that other gear I know he has in him." Part of that is because you see the effort going in in all aspects of the game. With Buch, you see the obvious skill, and you just know if he was engaged a bit more when he didn't have the puck on his stick he could really be an impact player.
That's why he's so frustrating to me at least.
That's why he's so frustrating to me at least.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
LORDE
I am Lorde, YA YA YA
People continually want to rush a process that can and will only fail if rushed. We are finally on the right path to building something organically (an overused but appropriate word here) and folks are talking about contending next year?!?!
We don’t even have one elite/great piece in this team.
Next year we may very well be worse! It takes time
- Status
