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Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXII

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NYR Viper said:
Let me ask this:

Why does Zibanejad get more than Couturier?


2016-17
[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD][/TD]
[TD]G[/TD][TD]A[/TD][TD]P[/TD][TD]TOI[/TD][TD]FO%[/TD][TD]CF% Rel[/TD][TD]FF% Rel[/TD][TD]Games Played[/TD][TD][/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Zibanejad[/TD][TD]14[/TD][TD]23[/TD][TD]37[/TD][TD]17:04[/TD][TD]52.0[/TD][TD]6.2[/TD][TD]6.7[/TD][TD]56[/TD][TD][/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Couturier[/TD][TD]14[/TD][TD]20[/TD][TD]34[/TD][TD]18:27[/TD][TD]55.1[/TD][TD]2.1[/TD][TD]2.3[/TD][TD]66[/TD][TD][/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]
2017-2018
GAPTOIFO%CF% RelFF% RelGames Played
Zibanejad 272047 17:58 50.8 13.013.9 72
Couturier31 45 76 21:36 52.8 9.38.8 82
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
2018-2019
GAPTOIFO%CF% RelFF% RelGames Played
Zibanejad 3044 74 20:34 49.6 5.65.7 82
Couturier 3343 76 22:08 57.1 9.610.5 80
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
2019-2020
GAPTOIFO%CF% RelFF% RelGames Played
Zibanejad 41 3475 21:38 49.27.7 7.157
Couturier 2237 59 19:5059.7 8.97.6 69
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
2020-2021
GAPTOIFO%CF% RelFF% RelGames Played
Zibanejad242650 20:06 46.3 6.4 6.2 56
Couturier18 23 41 19:2056.9 8.79.1 45
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

They seem pretty much neck and neck in terms of stats with possibly a slight nod to Couturier in most things outside of scoring goals
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Recent offensive performance is on Zbad’s side but the Couterier contract could be a blessing for us in negotiations. Even if Zib’s side can argue his 65 goals over the past 110 games and overall point per game ratio makes him more valuable, it won’t be a full 2M per year more valuable. If you can get Zib locked in under 9, that’s good.


Zib has 95 goals, 199 points in his last 195 games. Couts has 73 goals 176 points in his last 194. Both over the past 3 seasons. But Couts is a Selke winner and more complete player. I think his contract will be a help for us in negotiations.
 
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Edge said:
That's why the talks could be very interesting.

Right now I tend to think there are decent odds the Rangers end up going a direction that includes neither Eichel or Zibanejad.
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Im very interested in seeing Larkin on this team. He is the only real answer out there that makes sense.
 
Loki Dog 74 said:
Recent offensive performance is on Zbad’s side but the Couterier contract could be a blessing for us in negotiations. Even if Zib’s side can argue his 65 goals over the past 110 games and overall point per game ratio makes him more valuable, it won’t be a full 2M per year more valuable. If you can get Zib locked in under 9, that’s good.
Click to expand...

The Rangers will definitely point to this deal if they engage in detailed contract talks.
 
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Edge said:
That's why the talks could be very interesting.

Right now I tend to think there are decent odds the Rangers end up going a direction that includes neither Eichel or Zibanejad.
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I could see it. It would freak some people out but who knows what the options look like next July (or earlier.)

I personally think they extend Zibanejad after a monster season. They’ll replace strome in UFA (Trochek would be my target) and figure out the rest as they go along. Whether that means bridge deals or whatever.
 
Chalfdiggity3 said:
Its not about having a guy play 7 years for us. Its about having a guy young enough to grow with our talented wingers. Getting guys that are over the hill, past their prime, 35+ up category does not solve the issue. Malkin is a shell of himself and cant stay healthy, other option are what? Coutierer signed, Hertl has knee issues, we arent getting crosby, Kuz has cocaine issues and is another Tony D. Barkov is resigning. I like Zibs but he has issues not sure i want to give him a massive contract. So yea we need a guy who is in their mid 20's to grow with this team
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So you are saying that an experienced guy like Bergeron or say Malkin, couldn't gel with our wingers in one or two seasons? And in turn, they couldn't adapt and learn to play with them very quckly? Enough to challenge for a Cup?

Sorry, I don't think that argument carries much weight.

You don't "need a guy who is in their mid 20's to grow with the team." It would be nice. Maybe it would be beneficial. It makes for a nice story and as a fan makes for an emotional attachment. But there is a huge leap between all that and what you are claiming, that it's a "necessity". Frankly, I think you are WAY overstating the importance.
 
Edge said:
I think other teams are hoping the Rangers think their options are drying up and that they make a panic move.

I don't know if the Rangers quite feel the same way at this point. I think they feel pretty confident that the options they have today aren't going anywhere immediately and that other options may also emerge.
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I hope other options emerge bc strome is not an option in my mind. Zibs next contract scares me. We cant self rent these players. Assets from a strome trade could also help with acquiring the center we want/need
 
Chalfdiggity3 said:
Stevie Y is open to trading him. Talks were the 15th and Kravy/nils
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How substantiated was that rumor exactly? I mean, how do you KNOW that for a fact? Right now Red Wings fans and some Red Wings journo's are REALLY down on Larkin. And they want him replaced. But that doesn't mean Yzerman agrees. Just asking for a citation of sorts.
 
What worries me about Zibs is he's getting paid for PP #'s. I personally don't like paying people based on their PP success. The deeper you get into the playoffs, the less it's relevant.

but, Zibs was the best forward in our last playoff 'push', 5 years ago. He didn't light it up by any means but it was discernible... this was also before his 'coming out party'.
 
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Edge said:
I think if/when it gets to that point, the Rangers wouldn't have a hard time moving Trouba. I also don't know if Lundkvist or Schneider are looking at huge contracts on their next deal. Not with Adam Fox eating 25-30 minutes per night.
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I don't think they are looking at huge deals but I do think we are looking at cheaper and better players, so why keep paying $8m to a guy who might be no better than your third best RD and maybe not even your third best? It's no huge reach to think that Lundkvist and Schneider both surpass Trouba within 3 years.
 
brakeyawself said:
So you are saying that an experienced guy like Bergeron or say Malkin, couldn't gel with our wingers in one or two seasons? And in turn, they couldn't adapt and learn to play with them very quckly? Enough to challenge for a Cup?

Sorry, I don't think that argument carries much weight.

You don't "need a guy who is in their mid 20's to grow with the team." It would be nice. Maybe it would be beneficial. It makes for a nice story and as a fan makes for an emotional attachment. But there is a huge leap between all that and what you are claiming, that it's a "necessity". Frankly, I think you are WAY overstating the importance.
Click to expand...

Bergeron is in europe! Malkin cant stay healthy period. I didnt say that they cant gel, its that our options are drying up. Those players arent the answer. They are a stop gap and its kicking the can down the road.

My importance is finding someone who is the long term answer at center. That is a necessity in my book. You can not bank on those players becoming available. Coutier was just resign, Barkov will be too.

I believe Larkin is the answer then have Chytl play 2nd line
 
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Chalfdiggity3 said:
I hope other options emerge bc strome is not an option in my mind. Zibs next contract scares me. We cant self rent these players. Assets from a strome trade could also help with acquiring the center we want/need
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I still think we are going to end up trading for that center, using guys like Lundqvist and picks to do so.

Either that, or I could still see (dream) about AM getting fed up with the Leafs and saying, I'm gonna go to free agency and take my chances. In which case, being strapped to a guy like Zibanijad long term would be detrimental. I understand we can't plan solely around the idea of getting Matthews, or maybe Elias Lindholm or PLD the year after, but I think we should be prepared to try when the chance arises.

Rangers are the MOST valuable team in the NHL in one of the absolute top markets. NYC affords intangibles that no other market can touch. As big as hockey is in Toronto and Montreal, they come close, but it's still not NYC.

So in the chance that AM did become a FA, I would imagine we would be the frontrunner to sign him. But that solely depends on us having the cap and financial ability to do so. Which to me, should be kept in mind when discussing Zibs long term future.
 
brakeyawself said:
How substantiated was that rumor exactly? I mean, how do you KNOW that for a fact? Right now Red Wings fans and some Red Wings journo's are REALLY down on Larkin. And they want him replaced. But that doesn't mean Yzerman agrees. Just asking for a citation of sorts.
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I know it for a fact because @Edge has stated that as fact. He is our insider.
 
brakeyawself said:
St. Louis?

Zetterberg was pretty old when he won with the Red Wings.

Vegas seems to do just fine without a stud center.

Washington did it. And sure, Backstrom is good, Kuznetsov has his moments.

There's more than one way to skin a cat and win a cup.

And I still think you are underselling where Chytil will be in a few years time. Not saying I know he will be good enough to be a star 1C. But I think he at least has the 2C position locked down.

But either way, if you can sign a guy like Bergeron for 2 years, and his performance remains high, you don't think you can win a cup like that? Why does a guy need to be on a team for like 8 years in order to win? That's the part that I don't think makes sense. Sure you need a good 1C. But the idea that the player needs to be with your team for like 7 years doesn't add up.
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ROR was the Blues 1C locked up for term when they won.

Zetterberg was 26 when he won the the Red Wings

VGK hasn't won a Cup, and a lot of people think the center issue is a big reason why.

Backstrom had been their 1C for a long-time and Kuznetsov was also locked up for term.

I'm a bigger Chytil-as-center supporter than you. I agree he's at least going to be a 2C.

Just remember that there's a push and pull here. The push is that the Rangers potentially have a window opening with the combination of their "older" guys in their primes and their kids just coming along. The pull is that the window can potentially continue beyond when Panarin, Trouba, Kreider, etc are still effective because that's when the kids will be in their mid-20s primes. What you're saying about Chytil potentially being a 1C, even if he's not a star one, is possibly right, but that lines up with the pull. I think our roster construction would benefit a lot by having someone that addresses both push and pull. Eichel and Larkin are two good example of that. Bergeron or Malkin are not.
 
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Chalfdiggity3 said:
Bergeron is in europe! Malkin cant stay healthy period. I didnt say that they cant gel, its that our options are drying up. Those players arent the answer. They are a stop gap and its kicking the can down the road.

My importance is finding someone who is the long term answer at center. That is a necessity in my book. You can not bank on those players becoming available. Coutier was just resign, Barkov will be too.

I believe Larkin is the answer then have Chytl play 2nd line
Click to expand...

Wait, what team did Bergeron sign with in Europe? I must have missed that.

I get it, you want a long term answer. I just don't think highly qualified "stop gaps" are a problem. If they are capable of a high level of play and can do so for 2 years, that gives us 2 years with a chance to compete while we "kick the can down the road".
 
Tawnos said:
ROR was the Blues 1C locked up for term when they won.

Zetterberg was 26 when he won the the Red Wings

VGK hasn't won a Cup, and a lot of people think the center issue is a big reason why.

Backstrom had been their 1C for a long-time and Kuznetsov was also locked up for term.

I'm a bigger Chytil-as-center supporter than you. I agree he's at least going to be a 2C.

Just remember that there's a push and pull here. The push is that the Rangers potentially have a window opening with the combination of their "older" guys in their primes and their kids just coming along. The pull is that the window can potentially continue beyond when Panarin, Trouba, Kreider, etc are still effective because that's when the kids will be in their mid-20s primes. What you're saying about Chytil potentially being a 1C, even if he's not a star one, is possibly right, but that lines up with the pull. I think our roster construction would benefit a lot by having someone that addresses both push and pull. Eichel and Larkin are two good example of that. Bergeron or Malkin are not.
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Fair on Zetterberg, I thought he was a in his early 30's at that point.

Will have to see with Vegas. I think their biggest issue now might be goaltending. Doubt they can match what they lost.

Backstrom is a good player, but I don't think he's in the class of some of these other players that people are mentioning, or even Zibby.

And ROR and even Schenn are nice players, but neither are in the class we are talking about. At least IMO. And he's getting paid $7.5 mil, which I think is even a bit high for him. But lower than what we are expecting Zibs to want.

I don't think Eichel fits until we know if the surgery is successful and allows him to play at a high level after that. In the 5 seasons prior to this neck thing, he only played more than 68 games twice. So I don't even trust his regular health, let alone now. Anyway, to me Eichel is WAY more than we need. He'd be a luxury signing.

Larkin is a bit more realistic and at least stays healthy. He wouldn't cost nearly as much either which is key. Or at least he shouldn't.

But I would be fine with a guy like PLD on our top line. Which I don't think is too crazy. Or like I said, Lindholm.

Heck, I would have been ok with Dvorak if the price was right. At least coming in as our 2/3C.
 
brakeyawself said:
Wait, what team did Bergeron sign with in Europe? I must have missed that.

I get it, you want a long term answer. I just don't think highly qualified "stop gaps" are a problem. If they are capable of a high level of play and can do so for 2 years, that gives us 2 years with a chance to compete while we "kick the can down the road".
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Sorry that was Krejci. But we dont know if they are highly qualified in a few years when their contracts are up. Also Malkin is a shell of himself. i dont want him, he cant stay on the ice. Bergeron would have to want to leave boston and i dont see him leaving there.
 
brakeyawself said:
Uh huh. Hey, nothing against "Edge", but I am not so easily convinced.
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Lol you can choose to believe him or not. He is our vetted insider. I choose to believe him, Also the price during the draft was believed to be 15th pick and either Kravy or Nils. Which is a steep price but he is a 24yo who is already a top 25 center in this league.
 
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