Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXII

[haohmaru]

no.

"Do we need 'true 1C's' with our wingers? That's the question."

^

That's you, right? Yes. Yes, it is.

 

[mas0764]

Zibanejad is a solid two-way center though, even if not on that level, and his offensive high-end is above Toews'. If you look at the Hawks, our approach should be:

Zibanejad :: Toews

I buy this if Zibanejad was 22 or 23. He's not, he's going to be 29 this season.

Kakko is 20 and Lafreniere is 19.

Who is going to be their Toews?

The pieces are there. If the kids can grow into those projections - which is a tall order - it's a pretty comparable setup. You've got Miller, Lundkvist, Chytil, Blais to fill in for the other guys who made impacts. We have room to be better in some areas. And in some areas, like Trouba not being up to prime Seabrook level, we have depth in young guys with high ceilings to make up for it.

By the time they grow into it, Zibanejad will no longer be Zibanejad.

And even so, I think he's less than Toews. I'd want a higher end 2C to go with him. Maybe that can be Chytil, maybe not.

And the Hawks are one example. The Lightning went like four deep at quality centers. The Bruins, Capitals, Penguins, Kings, all had not only a star or stars but great depth too.

Thus, we still have a lot of work to do at center.

We probably are going to need to replace Zibanejad. I just don't see him as a guy who is going to be anywhere close to what he is now at age 33 or 34. And we need another good center or two, even assuming Chytil pans out.

That's why it's so painful we've whiffed on getting the extra assets to get centers these past three drafts (Zegras in 2019 from Edmonton, not trading up to get Lundell in 2020, taking a middle six winger instead of a center in 2021). The position has to be addressed, very soon. It's way overdue. We don't need more grit or middle six wingers, we need a center who can play long term top 6.

 

[LokiDog]

Zibanejad WAS a solid 2 way center. His defensive game has gone from meh to bad to straight up butt.

Covid 100% had a part of it being hella butt last year, but its been getting worse even before that. Perhaps the coaching change will help, but I wouldn't throw him in a 2 way category.

I care less about his defense because he scores a shit load of goals, but they would be better served with a line that can handle heavier defensive matchups (Quinn tried this with him last year almost out of necessity, it didn't work and he stupidly stuck with it) with out creating an all out checking line (which don't really exist anymore, and I really hope that we don't try to do this.) This is the issue with Strome, because he doesn't defend well either and he isn't good enough everywhere else to really justify his role. I think Chytil could be that guy with his tool kit (and he was easily our best defensive C last year, but usage also had a part in that.)

They don't necessarily need a TRUE #1 CENTER AND DEPTH AT THE POSITION, but they do need to round out their skill set at the position. It'd probably be smartest to see if Chytil can handle more responsibility this upcoming season rather than trying to force Zib/Strome to do something we know they can't, but this is why they were in on Danault and would have dropped Strome had they signed him.

This I agree with 100%. For me, I have absolutely nothing against Strome, but I just see him as the one who has to be replaced with a different BRAND of center. As you said, we need to round out the skill set of our overall GROUP. And why I was personally hoping to land Danault. He would produce well enough here due to being surrounded by offense, but the rest of his game was the exact type of center that would really solidify our group. To me, that's still the type of center we should be seeking.

 

[duhmetreE]

Well moreover, nobody's a True Elite #1 Champion Center (TM) until they are. The Ducks won in '07 with Andy MacDonald as their 1C, Getzlaf broke out in the playoffs, but MacDonald played with Selanne throughout. Even Kopitar was never regarded as such until they won in 2012.

Also, I don't get it here at all... our 1C has scored 65 goals in his last 113 games, and he had COVID for a segment of them. I get he's no Toews in his own end, but seriously, is there another center in the NHL that can score goals at that pace right now?

we need two of them now and xe/he/they need to be under 25

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

I didn't think Mika's two-way game, PK etc was particularly bad last year. That's why I had a hard time thinking it was purely a covid issue, because the stamina and the hustle level was where it always was and in the first couple months, he just went from being one of the league's best powerplay players to one of its worst. But I'm just some poster, I've never been an elite athlete playing through post-covid.

I have no idea what they should do with him. I don't think they want to trade him for futures before the start of the season, and they can't if making the playoffs is an ultimatum.

I think the three way trade for the neck man has always made sense in terms of the assets and contracts, but you need a team like Minnesota or Vegas with enough interest in Zibanejad that he would also want to stay with. If there isn't that third team, and obviously if there are too many questions about Eichel's tedious medical stuff, you can't do it.

Can't play him this year and let him go the way you probably can with Ryan Strome from an assets perspective, unless he's absolutely horrible. So you're kind of lurching towards the extension.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Well moreover, nobody's a True Elite #1 Champion Center (TM) until they are. The Ducks won in '07 with Andy MacDonald as their 1C, Getzlaf broke out in the playoffs, but MacDonald played with Selanne throughout. Even Kopitar was never regarded as such until they won in 2012.

Also, I don't get it here at all... our 1C has scored 65 goals in his last 113 games, and he had COVID for a segment of them. I get he's no Toews in his own end, but seriously, is there another center in the NHL that can score goals at that pace right now?

Matthews and McDavid.

Thats it.

 

[mas0764]

Just goes to show you how much not having two #1 centers can undermine you.

edit: I guess it might be unclear what I was saying. People used to say (here lots) that a low seed can't win the Cup, and that's why I was happy to see LA win it in 2012, so I didn't have to hear that anymore. Vegas winning with a ragtag group of centers would do the same for me.

Not sure it would change the argument all that much.

One team winning in twenty years without a true 1C doesn't really mean that's what the Rangers should aspire to try to do.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

we need two of them now and xe/he/they need to be under 25

And they need to be cup winners before they actually win a cup because we never make this determination in hindsight.

 

[duhmetreE]

"Do we need 'true 1C's' with our wingers? That's the question."

^

That's you, right? Yes. Yes, it is.

That's a question. As in do we need Eichel to find success. QUESTION MARK. and where's the rest of the quote?

No where did I say Center doesn't need to be addressed... Asking HOW should it be addressed.

So. No.

 

[Machinehead]

I wouldn't be against adding him.

Imagine him teaching Miller?

Plus, we're one injury away from Tinordi and two injuries away from Libor f***ing Hajek.

That being said, I don't think Chara would be willing to split time.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I wouldn't be against adding him.

Imagine him teaching Miller?

Plus, we're one injury away from Tinordi and two injuries away from Libor f***ing Hajek.

That being said, I don't think Chara would be willing to split time.

Maybe back to where it all began on the Island?

He's huge and really slow, but Trotz can work with that.

 

[mas0764]

Well moreover, nobody's a True Elite #1 Champion Center (TM) until they are.

Yes, but they play like a #1 center which helps them win the Cup?

The Ducks won in '07 with Andy MacDonald as their 1C, Getzlaf broke out in the playoffs, but MacDonald played with Selanne throughout. Even Kopitar was never regarded as such until they won in 2012.

Yeah but McDonald scored 78 points in 82 games that season. So.... maybe he was a 1C that year?

Kopitar wasn't regarded as a 1C after "because they won," it's because his play as a 1C during that run won them the Cup. Thus he was recognized for it.

Also, I don't get it here at all... our 1C has scored 65 goals in his last 113 games, and he had COVID for a segment of them. I get he's no Toews in his own end, but seriously, is there another center in the NHL that can score goals at that pace right now?

I don't have a problem with Zibanejad as a box-checking 1C.... today.

It's tomorrow that's the problem with him.

 

[duhmetreE]

I wouldn't be against adding him.

Imagine him teaching Miller?

Plus, we're one injury away from Tinordi and two injuries away from Libor f***ing Hajek.

That being said, I don't think Chara would be willing to split time.

I would have overpaid him to be the 7th D man ( over Tinordi ). I don't know if he would have accepted it but as a mentor/locker room/depth guy, he would have been nice. Even if it was something absurd like 1 year $4M

 

[RangersFan1994]

I wouldn't be against adding him.

Imagine him teaching Miller?

Plus, we're one injury away from Tinordi and two injuries away from Libor f***ing Hajek.

That being said, I don't think Chara would be willing to split time.

I would love Chara here. although another hall of famer on the wrong side of 40 lmfao, gotta keep him fresh for the playoffs

 

[Machinehead]

Maybe back to where it all began on the Island?

He's huge and really slow, but Trotz can work with that.

This is a great idea and it's a great idea for the Islanders, so I'm going to pretend it wasn't said.

 

[SA16]

Thank you for making this post. Saved me 30 minutes of my day replying to the clowns on here who think you can win a cup with out top tier center talent.

To those arguing that it can be done without top tier center talent, sure it can.......anything is possible, but its WAY WAY WAY outside the norm, and lets be honest, we dont do so good when we operate outside the norm. I'd rather build onn something thats proven as opposed to hoping and praying that an outside the box formula MIGHT pay dividends.

Mika Zibanajed is the closest thing we have had to a legitimate 1st line center in alomst 20 years ( michael nylander gets an honorable mention in the 3 years he was a ranger back in 2005-2008 ). I'm fine with him as our 1C. He is a legitimate top tier first line center right now. We have the rest of the pieces......maybe needing a stronger 2c, but I think we are built for the future with Mika on the first line and the rest of the team growing into their respective roles.

Barkov
Bergeron
Matthews
Point
(Norris)
(Danault)
Larkin
Eichel

(Roslovic)
Aho
Backstrom
Crosby
Couturier
Zibanejad
Barzal
(Hischier)

(Eriksson Ek)
(Suter)
Scheifele
Johansen
(Dvorak)
O'Reilly
MacKinnon
Seguin

Monahan
(Stephenson)
(Getzlaf)
Pettersson
Hertl
Kopitar
McDavid

Those are mostly the 1C's from last year. And that right there is why most teams that win have good first line centers. There are a lot of good first line centers. Only Ottawa, Montreal, Columbus, Minnesota, Chicago, Vegas, Anaheim, maybe NJ are particularly weak there to start. And sure someone like Larkin/Monahan isn't a top tier center talent but he's still a high quality center who can surely center the first line on a top team.

 

[Fitzy]

I wouldn't be against adding him.

Imagine him teaching Miller?

Plus, we're one injury away from Tinordi and two injuries away from Libor f***ing Hajek.

That being said, I don't think Chara would be willing to split time.

I fully expect the Robertson, Schneider, Joneses of the world to get a cup of coffee if there's more than one injury.

 

[Thirty One]

I got sucked into debates I got sucked into in 2014 again. I am disappoint.

 

[haohmaru]

That's a question. As in do we need Eichel to find success. QUESTION MARK. and where's the rest of the quote?

No where did I say Center doesn't need to be addressed... Asking HOW should it be addressed.

So. No.

Dude, you're talking in circles. I've never said anything about your VIEWS on HOW or IF it should be addressed only that I ANSWERED a QUESTION that YOU asked. Holy shit.

You asked if we need a #1 center-ish type player to win a Cup.
I said we did since it's been an issues since the mid 90's.
You said "who said it wasn't a need?"
I said "You asked if it was. It is".
You said "No".
I said: "Do we need 'true 1C's' with our wingers? That's the question."

^

That's you, right? Yes. Yes, it is. (This is the question I originally answered with MY view on the question)

And, finally, the above which has f*ckall to do with anything that I've said.

So. Yes. You asked, I answered, and I didn't ask what your view on the topic is.

 

[duhmetreE]

I got sucked into debates I got sucked into in 2014 again. I am disappoint.

We cant win unless we get the #1OA Pick

 

[duhmetreE]

Dude, you're talking in circles. I've never said anything about your VIEWS on HOW or IF it should be addressed only that I ANSWERED a QUESTION that YOU asked. Holy shit.

You asked if we need a #1 center-ish type player to win a Cup.
I said we did since it's been an issues since the mid 90's.
You said "who said it wasn't a need?"
I said "You asked if it was. It is".
You said "No".
I said: "Do we need 'true 1C's' with our wingers? That's the question."

^

That's you, right? Yes. Yes, it is. (This is the question I originally answered with MY view on the question)

And, finally, the above which has f*ckall to do with anything that I've said.

So. Yes. You asked, I answered, and I didn't ask what your view on the topic is.

moving on.

 

[Thirty One]

Let's try to lift each other up, not bring each other down.

 

[haohmaru]

Let's try to lift each other up, not bring each other down.

+1 Sanctimonious Douche HFB Boardie Award

 

[Thirty One]

+1 Sanctimonious Douche HFB Boardie Award

Did not find this uplifting.

 

[RangerBoy]