Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXII

[Avery16]

Barkov is about to get a massive extension in Florida.
If he comes to NYR, it will be after hes 35 and washed up.

 

[IDvsEGO]

St. Louis is literally the only team even close to not have two top centers to win.

Really? Because I’d argue that Pittsburg was the only team this decade to have two top centers.

the kings had kopitar, and he was very good, but he’s borderline top 10.
backstrom and kutz don’t make my top 10, but their wing play was really strong.
Point makes my top 10 but cirelli is not even top 32.
the hawks have toews, but 2C was nothing special, again strong wings overcome that gap.

 

[Thirty One]

Brayden Pointe/Steven Stamkos, Ryan O' Reilly scoring 77 in 82 and playing Selke defense, Kuznetzov/Backstrom combo, Crosby/Malkin combo, Toews scoring 66 in 81 games playing Selke defense, Anze Kopitar followed by Carter and Richards, Krejci/Bergeron, Datsyuk/Zetterberg, etc.

Stamkos either played wing or didn't play in Tampa's cup runs.

 

[mas0764]

Even if it were a 100% set in stone requirement

It pretty much is.

the ultimate question is, is Zibanejad a #1C on a Cup winner over the relevant timeframe (2022-23 season through whenever)?

A very good question and why this team shouldn't have cut off it's rebuild before adding another center or two that it felt can be top line-ish guys someday even if they aren't Crosbys or Eichels or Zegrases.

 

[Kocur Dill]

the Rangers will lose at least one, maybe two, kids everybody wants to keep if Zibby gets that kind of contract.

Laf, Kakko, Krav . . . somebody in this talent neighborhood is going to be lost. No question. Watch the Devils steal one while the Rangers have an immovable Zibby

Out of those three, I see Kravtsov as being a bridge deal. I dont think we loose any of them in the near future for cap reasons because of Mika.

I dont see Kreider being here the full term. I've commented before about the chain-of-causation from the Callahan/Torts era to the Nash/AV era, and the ballyhoo'd culture change of this x/Gallant era. Kreider is the last link to the Nash/AV "country club" mentality.

You can't teach and old dog new tricks. And Kreider, outside of reinventing himself physically after his heart issue, is consistently what he's always been. I'm not optimistic even Gallant can change that. With that in mind, his cap number makes him a square peg in a board with 12 round holes that are already penciled in without wiggle room

 

[mas0764]

Stamkos either played wing or didn't play in Tampa's cup runs.

He didn't exclusively play wing, he took like 400 faceoffs still. Even still, Brayden Point counts.

Tampa is an outlier in that they are an all time talented team and can afford to roll talent at any position on any line and can afford to put Stamkos on the wing.

 

[pld459666]

the Rangers will lose at least one, maybe two, kids everybody wants to keep if Zibby gets that kind of contract.

Laf, Kakko, Krav . . . somebody in this talent neighborhood is going to be lost. No question. Watch the Devils steal one while the Rangers have an immovable Zibby

Both Kreider and Trouba CAN be traded with out without the NTC

Destination is the key to any potential trade

 

[SA16]

You need good players to win. It really does not matter if they are wings, center, defense, or goalies.

He didn't exclusively play wing, he took like 400 faceoffs still. Even still, Brayden Point counts.

Tampa is an outlier in that they are an all time talented team and can afford to roll talent at any position on any line and can afford to put Stamkos on the wing.

Taking faceoffs is not the same thing as playing center. Stamkos played wing almost the entire year both this year and last year.

 

[duhmetreE]

Brayden Pointe/Steven Stamkos, Ryan O' Reilly scoring 77 in 82 and playing Selke defense, Kuznetzov/Backstrom combo, Crosby/Malkin combo, Toews scoring 66 in 81 games playing Selke defense, Anze Kopitar followed by Carter and Richards, Krejci/Bergeron, Datsyuk/Zetterberg, etc.

I was asking for a definition

Is there 32 1C's or is there an arbitrary number of 1Cs?

 

[mas0764]

So Zibs is enough? Just need 2way center depth.

Zibs would probably be enough today if we had an upgrade to Strome for a well rounded 60 point scorer, and Chytil.

But Zibs is not going to be enough 3-4 years from now most likely. And that is the time frame we have to be making most decisions for.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Out of those three, I see Kravtsov as being a bridge deal. I dont think we loose any of them in the near future for cap reasons because of Mika.

I dont see Kreider being here the full term. I've commented before about the chain-of-causation from the Callahan/Torts era to the Nash/AV era, and the ballyhoo'd culture change of this x/Gallant era. Kreider is the last link to the Nash/AV "country club" mentality.

You can't teach and old dog new tricks. And Kreider, outside of reinventing himself physically after his heart issue, is consistently what he's always been. I'm not optimistic even Gallant can change that. With that in mind, his cap number makes him a square peg in a board with 12 round holes that are already penciled in without wiggle room

well, the near future comes and goes pretty quickly imo. I want no part of any long term 3rd contracts for any of these guys.

Kreider, no surprise, was at his best pre-contract. Appears there was a nice offer coming out of Dallas which i would have taken simply b/c i felt the team is still rebuilding. Once Laf unexpectedly fell into the Rangers laps suddenly LW was flooded. The residual was Buch being removed imo.

i like Zibby and the Rangers need a center. He's going to be great going into a contract year. Is he worth a ton long term? No

 

[mas0764]

You need good players to win. It really does not matter if they are wings, center, defense, or goalies.

This is not true.

You need good #1 centers. There is no real debating this.

Taking faceoffs is not the same thing as playing center. Stamkos played wing almost the entire year both this year and last year.

Show me this please. I do not think it is true he played only wing.

Not that its really relevant because Point counts as their #1 center.

 

[mas0764]

I was asking for a definition

There is no definition, so in place of that red herring I was giving you examples of the types of centers we need to prepare to have or find.

Is there 32 1C's or is there an arbitrary number of 1Cs?

Who cares?

 

[NYSPORTS]

Both Kreider and Trouba CAN be traded with out without the NTC

Destination is the key to any potential trade

imo, unlike getting something of value for Kreider this will be a salary dump. Only hope, and i doubt it will happen, is the cap really jumps down the road and Trouba looks like a bargain. Doubt it happens so could see the Rangers having to retain some dollars.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Really? Because I’d argue that Pittsburg was the only team this decade to have two top centers.

the kings had kopitar, and he was very good, but he’s borderline top 10.
backstrom and kutz don’t make my top 10, but their wing play was really strong.
Point makes my top 10 but cirelli is not even top 32.
the hawks have toews, but 2C was nothing special, again strong wings overcome that gap.

JT really struggled through their 2013 run too.

C depth is a dumb archaic concept for building a winner. Good teams that win or contend are deep teams. It's how you overcome players getting hurt or going cold.

Its not like Pittsburgh would have been worse off if Crosby and Malkin played on the wing.

 

[mas0764]

Really? Because I’d argue that Pittsburg was the only team this decade to have two top centers.

the kings had kopitar, and he was very good, but he’s borderline top 10.
backstrom and kutz don’t make my top 10, but their wing play was really strong.
Point makes my top 10 but cirelli is not even top 32.
the hawks have toews, but 2C was nothing special, again strong wings overcome that gap.

I'd say Pittsburgh is the only team to have two clear cut #1 centers. But all the other teams, other than maybe St. Louis, had a surefire elite #1 and then top 2nd liners (or better) behind them. Cirelli and Gourde don't make the top 32 maybe but they are like 33-38.

 

[duhmetreE]

There is no definition, so in place of that red herring I was giving you examples of the types of centers we need to prepare to have or find.



Who cares?

You say we need 1Cs to win. I'm asking what defines a 1C. You say 'who cares'?.

 

[SA16]

This is not true.

You need good #1 centers. There is no real debating this.

Show me this please. I do not think it is true he played only wing.

Not that its really relevant because Point counts as their #1 center.

You do not need good #1 centers. This is one of the main fallacies. There are a lot of good centers in the league and generally since they are good that helps their team be good so you see teams with good centers win a lot. Doesn't at all mean you need them. Vegas is perfectly fine without them. Having an elite 1C would be totally wasteful for them considering they have one of the best top lines in the league which is centered by Chandler Stephenson.

There is nothing to show. He played almost exclusively wing. I suppose you can look up the tweets of Erik Erlendsson/Bryan Burns/Joe Smith prior to each Lightning game and you will see he is always listed on wing in line rushes. I literally follow the line combinations of every team, every game, for the entire season. I can assure you it is extremely rare at this point for Stamkos to play center. It really only occurs if guys are injured or are they are losing and shaking things up.

 

[pld459666]

imo, unlike getting something of value for Kreider this will be a salary dump. Only hope, and i doubt it will happen, is the cap really jumps down the road and Trouba looks like a bargain. Doubt it happens so could see the Rangers having to retain some dollars.

I think too much is made about Kreider.

Hes a beast on the PP, good for 25+ goals a year. Defensively responsible

Unless he falls off a cliff, hes going to be a solid player and not a cap dump.

I'm not worried about his value in 2-3 years

 

[NYSPORTS]

I think too much is made about Kreider.

Hes a beast on the PP, good for 25+ goals a year. Defensively responsible

Unless he falls off a cliff, hes going to be a solid player and not a cap dump.

I'm not worried about his value in 2-3 years

if Laf can move to center, Kreider is a need imo.

 

[Thirty One]

You can't win a Cup with a European captain. You can't win a Cup as a low seed. Until you can.

That's one reason I wouldn't have minded Vegas winning this year.

 

[romba]

the Rangers will lose at least one, maybe two, kids everybody wants to keep if Zibby gets that kind of contract.

Laf, Kakko, Krav . . . somebody in this talent neighborhood is going to be lost. No question. Watch the Devils steal one while the Rangers have an immovable Zibby

Cap is optional for other teams why can't we figure out creative ways too god damnit

 

[Thirty One]

Cap is optional for other teams why can't we figure out creative ways too god damnit

This is a meme and I doubt there's a team that took advantage of compliance buy-outs and burying contracts more than this one.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Cap is optional for other teams why can't we figure out creative ways too god damnit

Just have Panarin say something about Putin and the Rangers will have $11 million in cap space.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

Just have Panarin say something about Putin and the Rangers will have $11 million in cap space.

I do prefer my New York Rangers to spill into foreign affairs.