Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXII

[Oscar Lindberg]

The conversation would start with Nurse for me, include a first, and then require an additional component(s).

I dunno, Nurse just dosen't do it for me. Every time I watch him I'm underwhelmed

 

[Lion Hound]

Someone else joined Risebrough last night.

Landeskog and Zbad are buddies. Either player would likely be a decent fit. Landeskog to NY and vice versa, Zibanejad to Colorado.

Rangers still don't have a Captain. Its been a year. Can a team ever compete without a true C? Landeskog is 26, carries a very manageable cap hit, which is consistent with his 50 to 60 pt production. This year of course being the exception, as his line is hitting it out of the park. Arguably the best line in the league right now. Would they sell the Captian? Landeskog to NY i think checks alot of boxes. Again, focusing on leadership. Adding a legitimate top 6 guy. C an you add Landeskog w/out selling Kreider to the Avs? If so...what does the package look like? Zucc, Vesey plus a A prospect? K Andre Miller? Maybe Hajek? Not saying I would do that, but its likely going to cost that much or more? Maybe Jesper Fast, Zucc, and one of the A prospects? Avs need depth players. Would the Avs be interested in Skjei? Probably not. Leaves you with #20. Kreider for Landeskog. I think it's close value wise. Kreider with MacKinnon could be scary. Landeskog with MacKinnon already is scary.

I wouldn't do it from a Rangers standpoint.

Flip the coin...

Rangers are in the rebuild mode with only 1 true #1 C on the club for the now. They have potentially another with Hayes, who of course has yet to sign and has been in every trade rumor this side of the Hudson. Hayes mystery injury adds to the suspicion it's him. Most fingers point to him and Zucc as the tradable assets. Maybe the piece isn't Kevin Hayes, but Zibanejad? Can they move him? He's on pace for a 67pt season. Sell high? What could the Avalanche offer for him? I think everyone needs to get Makar out of thier heads. I don't see the Avs moving him. Plus, they haven't even signed him. Who trades for an Unsigned player? Move onto Jost. If the offer starts with Tyson Jost, and continues with a 1st, I would hope that is the Ott pick. Personally, i loved Jost on the Fighting Sioux ( I refuse to call them the Fighting Hawks still). My Niece went there. Got to watch him play. He was excellent. Best player on the ice for either team most nights. Boeser helped of course, but Jost stood out. His transition to the NHL has certainly been less then stellar. Maybe he needed a 2nd year at UND to develop? One thing is certain with Jost. The skill level is there. So is the skating. I remember seeing or hearing something about the Rangers liking him in his draft year. Of course they also loved Keller that year. Didn't matter much anyway. Rangers traded their pick in 2016. They likely wound't have been in striking range anyway. He went 10th overall. He's too young to call him a reclamation project. He a developing prospect.

I would do the Ott pick and Jost for Zibanejad...And Zbad is def one of my fav players on this Rangers squad.

 

[Edge]

The valuation on Kreider turns to what next deadline if he is not extending?

These asks for a player who has the rest of this and next year left under contract seem kind of pie in the sky to me.

He's likely worth two rentals returns for his next two playoffs and some extra for his next regular season.

I don't see the market giving up early picks, lottery picks, some other player who is nearly as good with more term left, a younger cost controlled player who could be nearly as good.

By next year deadline when it's theorized Kreider is asking for something like 7M for 6 years with a full no movement clause, after the Rangers are again not good all season, I think is going to change the optics quite a bit.

You're right, they are pie in the sky. Becuase if I'm the Rangers, I'm not particularly interested in moving him unless I am significantly helping my team.

This isn't moving a 2018 version of McD, this is more like moving a 2014 or 2016 version of McD. So now, I'm not looking to trade an important, impact player for my team unless I get wowed by an offer.

And if I'm not wowed, I sign him.

 

[Edge]

I think part of it is me just being so tired of hearing puljujärvi's name.

He's gonna be 31 playing in the Finnish elite league and people will be like "anyone up for taking a flyer on pool party? he's looking good lately"

I'd take him as a component of a deal, but not as a major piece.

The value, and bankable odds, would need to come elsewhere in any deal.

 

[RGY]

Lindgren wearing #55 tonight

 

[Ghost of jas]

The valuation on Kreider turns to what next deadline if he is not extending?

These asks for a player who has the rest of this and next year left under contract seem kind of pie in the sky to me.

He's likely worth two rentals returns for his next two playoffs and some extra for his next regular season.

I don't see the market giving up early picks, lottery picks, some other player who is nearly as good with more term left, a younger cost controlled player who could be nearly as good.

By next year deadline when it's theorized Kreider is asking for something like 7M for 6 years with a full no movement clause, after the Rangers are again not good all season, I think is going to change the optics quite a bit.

I don’t think the numbers you are suggesting are a turnoff for the Rangers.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Which goes back to something I said yesterday (which I know you already agreed with):

We keep talking about acquiring picks from teams that have lottery odds, but are currently outside the top 10 picks, because they want to make the playoffs.

However, we can’t forgot the second part of that equation: acquiring those picks would require giving up something of significant value.

And giving up something of significant value increases the odds that said pick we acquired would no longer be a lottery pick. So we’re right back to trading a guy for a pick in the 20s. ​

So if we're doing deals based on the picks, that's a very bad idea. The only time you do that, maybe, is after the season is over and the pick is set. Even then, it usually depends on knowing that the guy you want is on the board (aka the rumored Keller deal back in 2016).

If, and I do mean IF, the Rangers were looking to move a guy like Kreider, we wouldn't want to do it just for Edmonton's pick. You'd have to be getting multiple assets --- including a high-end asset.

And before anyone even suggests it, Pool Party would not count fit that last criteria.

This part, the part in bold, is an extremely important sentence.

For the last 18-24 months, posters in the roster building thread have continuously suggested trading Kreider for Puljujarvi in a one for one deal - or close to it. How would we feel about that deal now? I mean, JP is considered a throw in at this point, just a few years removed from being a 4th overall pick.

We significantly overvalue prospects and draft picks.

 

[Edge]

This part, the part in bold, is an extremely important sentence.

For the last 18-24 months, posters in the roster building thread have continuously suggested trading Kreider for Puljujarvi in a one for one deal - or close to it. How would we feel about that deal now? I mean, JP is considered a throw in at this point, just a few years removed from being a 4th overall pick.

We significantly overvalue prospects and draft picks.

There were also more than a few people who wanted to ship him (with additional assets) to Tampa for Drouin. That would've been a disaster on multiple fronts.

We're a smart board, overall, but sometimes it's good to have a little ego check and remember that we're not as infallible as we think.

 

[RangerBoy]

Sit Hayes out until the 29th.

 

[Lion Hound]

Lindgren wearing #55 tonight

Oh God, please change his number...do they want him to fail?

Marty McSorelegs wore 55 <--One of the toughest SOB ever but was an Ankle bender by the time he played for NY
Igor Ulanov wore 55 <--Top 5 worst Dman in Rangers history.
David Liffiton wore 55 <--Underrated guy that didnt get a chance
Christian Backman wore 55
Chris Summers wore 55

 

[Off Sides]

You're right, they are pie in the sky. Becuase if I'm the Rangers, I'm not particularly interested in moving him unless I am significantly helping my team.

This isn't moving a 2018 version of McD, this is more like moving a 2014 or 2016 version of McD. So now, I'm not looking to trade an important, impact player for my team unless I get wowed by an offer.

And if I'm not wowed, I sign him.

You are going to give him a 6 year deal with a full no movement clause? That signs him until like age 35.

I just don't see how that fits into the timeline, the D here is going to take like 4-5 years to even remotely come into their own if they ever do.

Beyond Hayes this deadline, only Kreider and Zbad have any ability to give the Rangers much return value.

That basically means without trade/signings if what they already drafted and what they draft this year does not become like top line and top pair players, the Rangers are using Zbad and Kreider as two thirds of their top line for the next at least three years with Zbad, and then maybe only have Kreider as a top line player for the next three while maybe also having to import some top pair defenders, another center to replace Zbad.

For me I use him to add to the rest of the question marks in hope out of that whole pool some top line, top pair stuff comes out of it because I just do not see that as of yet, and he is one of the last returns that could maybe provide that.

 

[pld459666]

Hayes does nothing for the Avs. Sure he may help them make the playoffs but they are 1st round exit waiting to happen. Now Boston on the other hand should be after Hayes. If I was Boston's GM I'd pay premium.

There is no chance that Hayes stays there after this playoff run.

Boston would be fools to pay a premium for a straight rental

 

[Off Sides]

I don’t think the numbers you are suggesting are a turnoff for the Rangers.

In my opinion they should be, yet more the clause and his age half way through.

Not saying he'll turn into a Lucic, Ladd, Backes, etc but even the remote possibility that he could is too risky for me to want to carry on the team.

 

[Edge]

You are going to give him a 6 year deal with a full no movement clause? That signs him until like age 35.

I just don't see how that fits into the timeline, the D here is going to take like 4-5 years to even remotely come into their own if they ever do.

Beyond Hayes this deadline, only Kreider and Zbad have any ability to give the Rangers much return value.

That basically means without trade/singings if what they already drafted and what they draft this year does not become like top line and top pair players, the Rangers are using Zbad and Kreider as two thirds of their top line for the next at least three years with Zbad, and then maybe only have Kreider as a top line player for the next three while maybe also having to import some top pair defenders, another center to replace Zbad.

For me I use him to add to the rest of the question marks in hope out of that whole pool some top line, top pair stuff comes out of it because I just do not see that as of yet, and he is one of the last returns that could maybe provide that.

I'm not opposed to using him to add pieces, but I'm not inherently opposed to giving him that kind of deal either. I don't think there are many players out there like him, and I think he's a guy who makes what this team has better (and doesn't necessarily play a position at which this team is overflowing with talent).

If we can find the right deal to move him, fantastic. But a lot of the deals I'm seeing out there don't provide the kind of impact that would plug holes --- at least not at a reasonable cost.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Oh God, please change his number...do they want him to fail?

Marty McSorelegs wore 55 <--One of the toughest SOB ever but was an Ankle bender by the time he played for NY
Igor Ulanov wore 55 <--Top 5 worst Dman in Rangers history.
David Liffiton wore 55 <--Underrated guy that didnt get a chance
Christian Backman wore 55
Chris Summers wore 55

He can reverse all that.. 55 screams a tough guy. Its like a linebacker

 

[NikC]

I see coach Quinn is having a public meltdown over " lack of effort"?
Lol. Gimme a break. This tattered squad is on the verge of yet more moves, morale is non existent.
What do he expect?

He really believes his lineup can match the mettle of the jackets under Torts?

Come on... this is why I said from day 1 this coach is not the right guy for this team right now. This is not a group of young talented kids who just need a kick in the pants and then they'll fly...

This is a group of marginally talented young players and veteran leftovers.
There isn't one player on this team that can lead by talent and example.

This asinine mentality that all it takes to win in the NHL is effort, is why this coach isn't ready for a rebuilding ream in the NHL.

You have to give young players the freedom to make mistakes in an environment where winning isn't the #1 priority. Instead he's benching players.

Stupidity. Another bad move by Gorton.

 

[Off Sides]

Puljujarvi I get not having any desire for,

Yet the picks are gambles, they are either gambling that management is good enough to get those right, or use them to move up or even down, get plain lucky, or they are gambling that pure UFA extensions or signing are going to work out.

Given the track record with pure UFA extensions and UFA signing, I kind of have to side with them gambling on the picks approach. Whether that is just a handful of darts like effect where they hit stuff, or if they diligently are going to draft well, it does not really matter as the chances there have to be better than players of UFA age being signed to expensive, long term, clause filled stuff working out well.

 

[Edge]

I see coach Quinn is having a public meltdown over " lack of effort"?
Lol. Gimme a break. This tattered squad is on the verge of yet more moves, morale is non existent.
What do he expect?

He really believes his lineup can match the mettle of the jackets under Torts?

Come on... this is why I said from day 1 this coach is not the right guy for this team right now. This is not a group of young talented kids who just need a kick in the pants and then they'll fly...

This is a group of marginally talented young players and veteran leftovers.
There isn't one player on this team that can lead by talent and example.

This asinine mentality that all it takes to win in the NHL is effort, is why this coach isn't ready for a rebuilding ream in the NHL.

You have to give young players the freedom to make mistakes in an environment where winning isn't the #1 priority. Instead he's benching players.

Stupidity. Another bad move by Gorton.

So you would prefer he say that effort is optional and that they coast on their inferior talent?

I'm not exactly sure what you're opposed to here, it almost sounds a tongue-in-cheek post - "How dare Quinn demand effort! Can't he see they suck?"

 

[Gardner McKay]

The valuation on Kreider turns to what next deadline if he is not extending?

These asks for a player who has the rest of this and next year left under contract seem kind of pie in the sky to me.

He's likely worth two rentals returns for his next two playoffs and some extra for his next regular season.

I don't see the market giving up early picks, lottery picks, some other player who is nearly as good with more term left, a younger cost controlled player who could be nearly as good.

By next year deadline when it's theorized Kreider is asking for something like 7M for 6 years with a full no movement clause, after the Rangers are again not good all season, I think is going to change the optics quite a bit.

Ottawa gave up a fortune for Duchene and he had just under two years left. The important thing is that whoever gets Kreider has him for TWO playoff runs. That is what ups the value. That, and Kreider having an absurdly good contract for next year.

 

[Gardner McKay]

There were also more than a few people who wanted to ship him (with additional assets) to Tampa for Drouin. That would've been a disaster on multiple fronts.

We're a smart board, overall, but sometimes it's good to have a little ego check and remember that we're not as infallible as we think.

I agree. I may be biased but I do believe we have the best board on HF. I just think we tend to suffer from prospectitis a bit more than other fans do.

 

[Off Sides]

Ottawa gave up a fortune for Duchene and he had just under two years left. The important thing is that whoever gets Kreider has him for TWO playoff runs. That is what ups the value. That, and Kreider having an absurdly good contract for next year.

I agree there, yet I'm not sure there are many Ottawa's in the league.

So they are either hoping something like that facilitates, which was a 3 way deal, or they are dealing with the more sane organizations who are going to take his term left, and his plausible extension chances into account.

 

[RGY]

 

[RangerBoy]

Edmonton might not be able to pay Nurse.

Do they want Pionk?

 

[NikC]

So you would prefer he say that effort is optional and that they coast on their inferior talent?

I'm not exactly sure what you're opposed to here, it almost sounds a tongue-in-cheek post - "How dare Quinn demand effort! Can't he see they suck?"

For a coach that just inherited a team of young prospects, stop gaps and transitioning vets, his expectations seem unrealistic.

He doesn't have to say effort is optional... but to carry on like this is just stupid considering where the team is right now.

Half a season in, and "he's had it!!"

 

[Edge]

For a coach that just inherited a team of young prospects, stop gaps and transitioning vets, his expectations seem unrealistic.

He doesn't have to say effort is optional... but to carry on like this is just stupid considering where the team is right now.

Half a season in, and "he's had it!!"

I don't think his expectations are unrealistic at all.

But this is the coddling we've done with our players. Torts was too nasty and mean. AV was too light and aloof. Now Quinn is too nasty and mean again.