Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXII

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Landeskog and Zbad are buddies. Either player would likely be a decent fit. Landeskog to NY and vice versa, Zibanejad to Colorado.

Rangers still don't have a Captain. Its been a year. Can a team ever compete without a true C? Landeskog is 26, carries a very manageable cap hit, which is consistent with his 50 to 60 pt production. This year of course being the exception, as his line is hitting it out of the park. Arguably the best line in the league right now. Would they sell the Captian? Landeskog to NY i think checks alot of boxes. Again, focusing on leadership. Adding a legitimate top 6 guy. C an you add Landeskog w/out selling Kreider to the Avs? If so...what does the package look like? Zucc, Vesey plus a A prospect? K Andre Miller? Maybe Hajek? Not saying I would do that, but its likely going to cost that much or more? Maybe Jesper Fast, Zucc, and one of the A prospects? Avs need depth players. Would the Avs be interested in Skjei? Probably not. Leaves you with #20. Kreider for Landeskog. I think it's close value wise. Kreider with MacKinnon could be scary. Landeskog with MacKinnon already is scary.

I wouldn't do it from a Rangers standpoint.

Flip the coin...

Rangers are in the rebuild mode with only 1 true #1 C on the club for the now. They have potentially another with Hayes, who of course has yet to sign and has been in every trade rumor this side of the Hudson. Hayes mystery injury adds to the suspicion it's him. Most fingers point to him and Zucc as the tradable assets. Maybe the piece isn't Kevin Hayes, but Zibanejad? Can they move him? He's on pace for a 67pt season. Sell high? What could the Avalanche offer for him? I think everyone needs to get Makar out of thier heads. I don't see the Avs moving him. Plus, they haven't even signed him. Who trades for an Unsigned player? Move onto Jost. If the offer starts with Tyson Jost, and continues with a 1st, I would hope that is the Ott pick. Personally, i loved Jost on the Fighting Sioux ( I refuse to call them the Fighting Hawks still). My Niece went there. Got to watch him play. He was excellent. Best player on the ice for either team most nights. Boeser helped of course, but Jost stood out. His transition to the NHL has certainly been less then stellar. Maybe he needed a 2nd year at UND to develop? One thing is certain with Jost. The skill level is there. So is the skating. I remember seeing or hearing something about the Rangers liking him in his draft year. Of course they also loved Keller that year. Didn't matter much anyway. Rangers traded their pick in 2016. They likely wound't have been in striking range anyway. He went 10th overall. He's too young to call him a reclamation project. He a developing prospect.

I would do the Ott pick and Jost for Zibanejad...And Zbad is def one of my fav players on this Rangers squad.


The only way i let go of Zibby is for that Ottawa pick. From the opposite perspective, i don’t see the avs moving Landeskog for Hayes. Landeskog has been a key part of that team for years and is crucial to their synergy right now. If Sakic was willing to work on a Landeskog for Hayes deal i would be interested though.
 
I don't think his expectations are unrealistic at all.

But this is the coddling we've down with our players. Torts was too nasty and mean. AV was too light and aloof. Now Quinn is too nasty and mean again.

It's not even a matter of too much of this or that.... this current team is in a state of Flux right now, that I hardly believe any appoach other than a supportive one will help.

Vets know they're going and this youth is supposed to "man up" ? It seems great if you have young raw talent, but we haven't seen anything like that yet.

It's all too premature to play the role of explosive , had enough coach. ..

He's on the job for half a season? Lol
 



I love this "could ".... he should have been traded last season when he had some value. Gorton and daddy Sather always waiting for the overpayment are going to get nothing for him.

Then they stand there , with their pockets hanging out claiming there were no moves to made, meanwhile they were asking for first round picks and McDavid. ..
 
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It's not even a matter of too much of this or that.... this current team is in a state of Flux right now, that I hardly believe any appoach other than a supportive one will help.

Vets know they're going and this youth is supposed to "man up" ? It seems great if you have young raw talent, but we haven't seen anything like that yet.

It's all too premature to play the role of explosive , had enough coach. ..

He's on the job for half a season? Lol

I don't know, if they're trying to set expectations and a tone moving forward, I kind of think they have to do it now.

I think a big part of the message is directed at guys who are expected to be here for the long-haul as a reminder that can change.
 
I agree there, yet I'm not sure there are many Ottawa's in the league.

So they are either hoping something like that facilitates, which was a 3 way deal, or they are dealing with the more sane organizations who are going to take his term left, and his plausible extension chances into account.

There is a sucker born every minute. Or, in Edmonton's case, a sucker that never learns. I'm not particularly thrilled with Edmonton's assets but the thought of Kreider flanking McDavid and pushing Edmonton back into the playoffs may be too tough for Chia to pass up. His ass has to be on the hot seat and if not, it will be soon.

When Kreider puts up 70 points on McDavids wing next year, Chia will look like a genius, thus saving his job for a few more seasons.
 


Yes Zucc need to focus on the game and start producing and stop worring about the future, and right now it might be ideal for him to change Franchise near TDL. Because New York Rangers rebuild project can take years until they are a good hockey team unless they sign Panarin or big name UFA and their new 2018 draft prospects are much better than they projected.

I also believe they need to hit in the 2019 draft to accellerate the whole rebuild process.
 
Dale Weise on waivers. Can’t wait for the ensuing ‘we need Weise for our 4th line’ debate
Seems obvious to me that Columbus will claim him, just so Tortortella can be responsible for having him traded or waived from three separate teams
 
The only way i let go of Zibby is for that Ottawa pick. From the opposite perspective, i don’t see the avs moving Landeskog for Hayes. Landeskog has been a key part of that team for years and is crucial to their synergy right now. If Sakic was willing to work on a Landeskog for Hayes deal i would be interested though.

Agree...For me, to move Zbad, NYR mandatory should either be Makar or the Ott pick. Makar still in College makes that a non-workable scenario. The pick would be amazing if it ended up top 3.

I would love a Hayes for Landeskog deal but i just don't see the Avs buying a rental for their captain.
 
Edmonton has nothing I want for Kreider

Bouchard - don't like him as a prospect, didn't want them to draft him
Puljujarvi - would take a chance on him but he's not a centerpiece anymore
Yamamoto - probably their most enticing prospect, but again I don't think he's a center piece
What about Oscar Klefbom?
 
The more I think about it, the more I wonder if Kreider ends up getting moved. Keep in mind, I am not advocating for us to move him.

- Anaheim is desperate for offense, as is Edmonton. Making a major trade with a team from a different conference is always a good idea.

- The Pacific division is steam rolling the rest of the West right now, with Calgary, San Jose and Vegas all on an 8-1-1 streak.

- Winnipeg and Nashville need to keep up, they were supposed to be the "real WCF" last year and the winner proceeded to get steamrolled by Vegas.

- 2 of Nashville's top 3 scorers are defensemen. They need more threats up front.

- Dallas is a shit show but they need to make the playoffs. Would adding Kreider take some of the pressure off Benn and Seguin?

- Colorado is probably a better fit for Hayes but you never know.

- Carolina, I feel like they are in the same spot every year. Not enough offense.

- Buffalo is certainly looking to get across the finish line this year but I do agree they would be a better fit for Zucc.

Most of these teams have pieces that are very attractive and some of these teams are at such a pivotal point that they may be willing to spend a bit more than they should. To lower budget teams, that playoff revenue is fairly important.
 
The more I think about it, the more I wonder if Kreider ends up getting moved. Keep in mind, I am not advocating for us to move him.

- Anaheim is desperate for offense, as is Edmonton. Making a major trade with a team from a different conference is always a good idea.

- The Pacific division is steam rolling the rest of the West right now, with Calgary, San Jose and Vegas all on an 8-1-1 streak.

- Winnipeg and Nashville need to keep up, they were supposed to be the "real WCF" last year and the winner proceeded to get steamrolled by Vegas.

- 2 of Nashville's top 3 scorers are defensemen. They need more threats up front.

- Dallas is a **** show but they need to make the playoffs. Would adding Kreider take some of the pressure off Benn and Seguin?

- Colorado is probably a better fit for Hayes but you never know.

- Carolina, I feel like they are in the same spot every year. Not enough offense.

- Buffalo is certainly looking to get across the finish line this year but I do agree they would be a better fit for Zucc.

Most of these teams have pieces that are very attractive and some of these teams are at such a pivotal point that they may be willing to spend a bit more than they should. To lower budget teams, that playoff revenue is fairly important.

Truthfully, I think Kreider and Zibanejad being moved has always been more of a possibility than most realize --- been saying that since last season.

I still don't even rule out that this team surprises everyone and trades Zibanejad while keeping Hayes. I think that would be a mistake, and I would consider it a very remote possibility, but I wouldn't dismiss it entirely either.
 
For teams like the Avs, Oilers, etc., it's the mindset that there's always tomorrow. It's easy to think this time will be different, or to get swept away in fantasy projections. Sometimes, it's the only refuge fans have. Look at some of the discussions we see on here, and we're about a year our from "The Letter." Now add multiple years to that noise.

However, just like there's a risk in moving too much young talent for a "win-now" approach, there's also the inherent risk of falling a bit too much for your own prospects.

The truth of the matter is that a lot of this teams have had the opportunity to draft elite pieces, and that's half the battle right there. But the difference in their fortunes is how they do with the other half of the equation --- surrounding said talent and building a team. That comes through development, the ability to find talent that isn't staring you in the face, trading, free agents, etc.

The difference between a team like Tampa, and say the Avs, is the ability to do the second half of the equation. They landed their elite talents in Hedman and Stamkos, and then they surrounded them with top end talents they found outside the first, made trades from the depth they acquired, and signed guys when they needed to. Along the way, they also uncovered another elite talent in Kucherov.

Along the way, they've had some pretty big misses as well --- Connolly, Koekkeok, Drouin and others were either disappointments, or flat out busts for them. But they did well enough in other areas that they were able to cover for it and move forward. (Something to consider when we look for perfection from the Rangers.)

So in the end, it's not even that the Avs had to hit every pick and transaction out of the park to be successful. But they couldn't be abysmal either, and too often they've been abysmal.

Definitely.

And of course single decisions by Yzerman can be questioned, but I definitely think that his intention was correct when he went on the purge to improve his team with outside help that he did. Then some might say like 'look at Tampa now, imagine if Yzerman did get them all that dead weight in Callahan and co, they could have been a dynasty', but its that logic that just don't work. Its no coincidence that it was the kids behind a strong leadership in Tampa that managed to handle the pressure and thrive. While 'good things' just never -- even remotely -- happen to the same extent for the teams that for a decade or longer ice teams as prepared as the one we have in NY this season. Hanging out their kids to dry instead.

Someone mentioned the nightmare years between 1998 and 2003, and how it never stood clear that we would miss the POs as early as January. Its true, I haven't gone back and studied all 6 seasons, but all those teams were in principle PO teams, that season after season had that PO spot slip away from them for various reasons such as injuries, bad stints at different part of a season etc. And in this league, and now more than ever with all the teams in it, its so darn easy for that to happen. And -- one season -- is such a long time for everyone involved, its such a large part of the average players entire hockey career. And for a young player, an 19-20 y/o, one (1) year is a huge effin part of your grown life.

A good team makes themselves immune from falling that deep, they place the bar so high that the lows won't bring them close to it. To get to that level you need to have established a certain mindset were losing really isn't an option. Were the thought of losing two straight in November genuinely makes you start to panic.

My point is -- time flies past a rebuilding team trying to get out of the cellar. You miss the POs 3-4 years by design. Then the hard work starts, Y5 you weren't quite ready. Y6 you are ready in terms of personell and everything, but whoops, a season was pissed away due to a bad stretch in October. Y7 you a really bad injury bug in November. A new GM and coach comes in, spends Y8-9 in cleaning out some old garbage trying to get the team ready to go for it again. Y5-7 repeats themselves in Y10-12...

Oscar Kelfbom joined the Oilers in 2013. He had just turned 20 y/o. He is 26 y/o today. 6 of those years has been spent in the environment we have on the ice today. Or much worse, because every year they had higher ambitions in EDM. Hoping it would be the year they got out of it. Is there reason to believe that Oscar Klefbom would have been a much better player today had he instead been drafted by say Tampa? I think there is all the reason in the world to expect that he would have been a much better player had he been drafted by Tampa. Total depression more or less for 6 years vs an awesome winning atmosphere, these guys are only human, of course it affects you. He was this supersteady calm D for Sweden in the 2012 WJC. When he recently played for Sweden in the WCHs he looked so bad. Zero confidence, always screwing up, losing concentration and what not.

Worthless teams will just do a much worse job developing players compared to strong teams. Every year you stay in the cellar, you more or less shave a slice of the ability of all players you have in the NHL at that time. You make them worse.
 
I love this "could ".... he should have been traded last season when he had some value. Gorton and daddy Sather always waiting for the overpayment are going to get nothing for him.

Then they stand there , with their pockets hanging out claiming there were no moves to made, meanwhile they were asking for first round picks and McDavid. ..

He still has value. And when did they end up with nothing because they asked too much?
 
I think its more or less a fact that the market will decide who Gorton trades. I know many disagree, but I think we got a crap return for McD and Miller. That is the return you get when you force a trade without having a sufficient market for the player moved. With Stepan and Brassard it was different, they were traded on our terms. Zucc will be auctioned off to the highest bidder. And its perfectly possible that Hayes will be too. But if someone is willing to make a move on Kreider or Ziba or Skjei or someone like that on terms that are acceptable for us -- I don't for a second think that Gorton would hesitate to pull the trigger.

But I see zero reason for Gorton to force a move for Kreider or Zibanejad. Even if Gorton intends to move Kreider, it should be better to wait until the deadline next season and deal him for a really late 1st and an OK prospect as opposed to doing the same this deadline.
 
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