Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXII

[Gardner McKay]

I'd hate to get rid of Kreider, but if Chiarelli is gonna Chiarelli and we sign Panarin, that's a win win.

To Edmonton
Kreider
Names
Claesson
Tampa Bays 2019 2nd rounder
NYR 2019 3rd rounder


To NYR
EDM unprotected 2019 1st rounder
EDM unprotected 2020 1st rounder
Yamamoto
Pool Party

We get two late 1st round picks, a smallish forward and a kid that has some serious question marks for one of our best assets + other assets and picks? Where do you guys come up with this stuff.

Edmonton does not have good assets, not for Kreider anyway. Zucc? Sure.

C'mon everybody. Say it with me. Unprotected means nothing when you trade a team high quality assets that will only improve their draft position and playoff chances.

Those are the main 4 assets that I'd expect Edmonton to use to improve their team. No way all 4 of them get traded for that package. More likely you can get 2 of those assets for Kreider.

What about these assets is particularly valuable?

When you trade Edmonton a 1st line player + middle 6 winger on a team that is starved for offense, what do you expect to happen to their playoff chances? They drastically increase.

Even Edmonton fans recognize that Puljujarvi has little value right now. Yamamoto, while I'm sure he is a nice kid, is a small forward and his ability to be an effective NHL player is still very unknown.

 

[brians1128]

Florida has some interesting prospects and are said to be buyers. I doubt they make it pass the first round and if they make the playoffs it will be via wildcard which should put that pick in the teens. I wouldnt mind shopping there

 

[Thirty One]

Florida has some interesting prospects and are said to be buyers. I doubt they make it pass the first round and if they make the playoffs it will be via wildcard which should put that pick in the teens. I wouldnt mind shopping there

Yeah, a lot of us were hoping McDonagh would go there last season for that reason.

 

[kinger8998]

anyone hear anything about niklas jensen? how long is his KHL contract? i know he just left this year, but ive always liked him and think he could be a pretty useful 3rd liner

 

[Irishguy42]

I'd hate to get rid of Kreider, but if Chiarelli is gonna Chiarelli and we sign Panarin, that's a win win.

To Edmonton
Kreider
Names
Claesson
Tampa Bays 2019 2nd rounder
NYR 2019 3rd rounder


To NYR
EDM unprotected 2019 1st rounder
EDM unprotected 2020 1st rounder
Yamamoto
Pool Party

EDM needs to send salary back

 

[True Blue]

I wonder if Edmonton would do

Kreider, Names and McQuaid

for

2019 1st unprotected
2020 2nd
Yamamoto
Pool Party

Sorry, but no. The 1sts are a start, but there had better be a prime prospect included.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I'd hate to get rid of Kreider, but if Chiarelli is gonna Chiarelli and we sign Panarin, that's a win win.

To Edmonton
Kreider
Names
Claesson
Tampa Bays 2019 2nd rounder
NYR 2019 3rd rounder


To NYR
EDM unprotected 2019 1st rounder
EDM unprotected 2020 1st rounder
Yamamoto
Pool Party

We don’t know that TB’s pick is going to be a 2nd.....

 

[Ola]

I wonder if Edmonton would do

Kreider, Names and McQuaid

for

2019 1st unprotected
2020 2nd
Yamamoto
Pool Party

EDM need to shed money just to fit in Sekera when he returns. They cannot take on these guys without dumping a bunch of players in other moves.

 

[Don Chytil]

Florida has some interesting prospects and are said to be buyers. I doubt they make it pass the first round and if they make the playoffs it will be via wildcard which should put that pick in the teens. I wouldnt mind shopping there

Florida has a worse chance to make the playoffs than us? I can't imagine a world where they are buyers.

 

[Ola]

The Tampa 2nd is the one that turns into a 1st if they win the cup this year right? I'd prefer not to trade that

Technically, but then it would be 31st overall so in principle it’s basically a 2nd rounder. My point is just, there is a big difference between a 20th overall pick and 31st overall pick.

Most likely it will be a pick in the 59-61 range, in essence a 3rd rounder...

 

[Ghost of jas]

Sorry, but no. The 1sts are a start, but there had better be a prime prospect included.

Edmonton doesn’t have one.

 

[brians1128]

Florida has a worse chance to make the playoffs than us? I can't imagine a world where they are buyers.

Yea for some reason I thought they were higher in the standings.

 

[Ola]

I am throwing out EDM proposals my self — but I doubt they will make any moves. There is no way out of the mess they are in in the near future, they also don’t get it, they won’t realize what is wrong and will hence keep making the same naive mistakes.

Like it’s not many months ago Chia was hoping for a turnaround by Lucic. Like that says it all. They have screwed up Pulju, but their modus operandi is wishful thinking so they will keep doing the same mistakes and dream of kids just waking up getting it instead of developing them properly.

 

[Don Chytil]

What about these assets is particularly valuable?

When you trade Edmonton a 1st line player + middle 6 winger on a team that is starved for offense, what do you expect to happen to their playoff chances? They drastically increase.

Yes, I understand that trading Kreider for 2 of those assets would probably put the picks in the 17-31 range - I don't care. I think that trading him today brings back more than trading him next year. And because I don't think this team is competing for at least 3-4 years if not more, I'd prefer to trade Kreider over re-signing him.

And once you're committed to trading him, it's a question of value. A mid to late 1st round pick and a prospect like Yamamoto - or 2 mid to late 1st round picks - is a fair return for Kreider, in my opinion.

 

[Lays]

I wonder if Edmonton would do

Kreider, Names and McQuaid

for

2019 1st unprotected
2020 2nd
Yamamoto
Pool Party

I wouldn’t

 

[Off Sides]

I too have doubts about any good return for Kreider post this trade deadline.

He has an 11 team no trade clause

At the draft I'd think that would be problematic as any team who in the first place would be willing to give up a early pick may also be on his no trade list.

At next year's deadline I really think they are looking at basic rental return.

I do agree it's kind of difficult to peg value and the Rangers do need something that has better odds than a late 1st or 2, yet other than something like two rental returns rolled into one, plus something for his regular season I'm not sure how else to peg his value.

Then once I add in what they received for McD/Miller to the equation, combining him with Hayes or Zucc becomes less appealing.

Yet in the back of my mind, that all still screams Kreider is going to have a ton of leverage next deadline to drive those negotiations if the Rangers are looking at either extending him or taking back long shot rental return value, and I don't like that position either.

Good luck to Gorton I guess as I'm not sure there is a happy medium in there.

 

[Don Chytil]

1.5 years of Martin St. Louis scoring at a PPG brought back 2 late 1sts and a rental - general consensus is that TB got great value for MSL

1.5 years of Chris Kreider for 2 mid-to-late 1sts from Edmonton or a 1st and Yamamoto (basically a 1st) - consensus here is that NYR wouldn't be getting enough value

I really don't understand why we think those offers are not good enough for Kreider. Might someone like Winnipeg pay even more if we retain salary? Sure. But some of the Edmonton trades being discussed here aren't far off from his value.

 

[ecemleafs]

Yeah, a lot of us were hoping McDonagh would go there last season for that reason.

I wanted borgstrom in a deal for mcdonagh.

 

[haohmaru]

1.5 years of Martin St. Louis scoring at a PPG brought back 2 late 1sts and a rental - general consensus is that TB got great value for MSL

1.5 years of Chris Kreider for 2 mid-to-late 1sts from Edmonton or a 1st and Yamamoto (basically a 1st) - consensus here is that NYR wouldn't be getting enough value

I really don't understand why we think those offers are not good enough for Kreider. Might someone like Winnipeg pay even more if we retain salary? Sure. But some of the Edmonton trades being discussed here aren't far off from his value.

Where's the part about St. Louis being 38 and Kreider being 27? I think I must've missed it.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Yes, I understand that trading Kreider for 2 of those assets would probably put the picks in the 17-31 range - I don't care. I think that trading him today brings back more than trading him next year. And because I don't think this team is competing for at least 3-4 years if not more, I'd prefer to trade Kreider over re-signing him.

And once you're committed to trading him, it's a question of value. A mid to late 1st round pick and a prospect like Yamamoto - or 2 mid to late 1st round picks - is a fair return for Kreider, in my opinion.

That does nothing for the Rangers, now or in the future. It is a terrible trade. You don't trade Kreider without a bluechip prospect coming back, something you're not likely to get in the later rounds. The question isn't trade Kreider this year or next year. The question is do you trade him at all.

If you decide to trade him, trading him for two late 1sts is a trade that sets this franchise back a few years.

 

[Off Sides]

1.5 years of Martin St. Louis scoring at a PPG brought back 2 late 1sts and a rental - general consensus is that TB got great value for MSL

1.5 years of Chris Kreider for 2 mid-to-late 1sts from Edmonton or a 1st and Yamamoto (basically a 1st) - consensus here is that NYR wouldn't be getting enough value

I really don't understand why we think those offers are not good enough for Kreider. Might someone like Winnipeg pay even more if we retain salary? Sure. But some of the Edmonton trades being discussed here aren't far off from his value.

I think to your point

Last year McD 1.5 years and Miller RFA for 1st, conditional 2nd/1st, two okay prospects and Name was considered or at least rationalized towards pretty good by most, yet a similar return for Kreider alone seems to be being panned.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Florida has a worse chance to make the playoffs than us? I can't imagine a world where they are buyers.

Teams can be buyers and not playoff contenders, especially if they are obtaining a long term piece. If a team like Florida (hypothetically) needed a 2C and Hayes is available, still somewhat young and is a known quantity, why wait? They aren't buying the piece for this year, rather they are securing a piece that will be important to their long term success.

 

[True Blue]

Edmonton doesn’t have one.

Then they do not make for a good trading partner

Ultimately, I do not believe that neither Krieder nor ZBad are being traded.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Then they do not make for a good trading partner

For Kreider? I agree. For Zucc? I do think they are an ideal partner.

 

[Thirty One]

I wanted borgstrom in a deal for mcdonagh.

Yeah, that was the dream. Nopuckluck came in and told us we should be targeting Lawson Crouse instead in any trade with the Panthers.