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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXII

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Also Nichushkin and Ritchie are available in Dallas, I know we all have a soft spot for Nich but as long as Ruff is here I doubt we explore that as an option.
 
DutchShamrock said:
To play devil's advocate, how many guys took a discount to seize that opportunity? I seem to remember outbidding most free agents. Shattenkirk is one exception and that was only with years, not salary. Now, if money was everything then Edmonton would be more successful. But NYC isn't heads and shoulders above any other city. Maybe it's a check in the pro column during decision making but it usually comes down to paying more than the other teams.

Tkachuk went back to St. Louis after his Atlanta trade but he was raising a family that had roots. The vast majority of pending UFA trades results in the player moving on from his original team. It's so overwhelming that we just have to assume the player is gone.
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Can speak from first-hand experience: St Louis is both an easy place to live, and a pretty friendly city. We’ve won over a number of pro athletes who settled here after retirement.
 
offdacrossbar said:
sounds good. really it does.

but an extended rebuild/retool is concerning to would be FA's coming here.

panarin is closer to a cup in cbus than he would be here.

this team is gonna suck for a while after hayes and zuc are gone. you add in smith, maybe shatty and certainly mcquaid and that's a lot of vet presence gone too.

coming here to NYC is attractive ill give you that, but coming here with this team with the huge talent void isnt so attractive if winning is what you want to do in the next 3 years or so.
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To be fair, I don't think they should be going after any big-ticket FAs until the summer of 2020. But did they have trouble signing guys in the early 2000s when they were god awful? Different times, sure but I think NY will always be a draw, regardless of where the team is at in the standings.
 
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TheKingsCourt said:
Also Nichushkin and Ritchie are available in Dallas, I know we all have a soft spot for Nich but as long as Ruff is here I doubt we explore that as an option.
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I think that stuff is overblown. We heard all kinds of concern when Brassard was brought in because of his history with Arniel. It was a non-issue... and Arniel had a bigger role on that coaching staff than Ruff has on this one. I'm not sure I want Nich anyway. Just a thought.
 
BBKers said:
In a cap world - it is important not to let the ELCs get too much playing time and then ask for the moon when the next contract is signed. Yes. It sounds a bit absurd. Yes. It is also an unspoken reality.
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Normally I'd agree, but the Rangers are going to play Chytil enough this season to let him reach UFA status at age 26. If they were really trying to be cautious about future contracts asks they would probably have found a way to limit his NHL time to just not quite enough for him to accrue a NHL season this year.

The again without Chytil playing in the NHL we'd probably have to suffer through more articles questioning both the quality and quickness of this rebuild.
 
TheKingsCourt said:
If Zucc can only fetch a Grabner type return then I want it to be a trade with EDM because at least their 2nd rounder will definitely still be a top-45 pick. That 2nd plus Pulju is probably unrealistic unless Chia gets desperate in the final hours so two realistic options would be Yamamoto and Bear. I'm not sure who I would prefer of those two but I just think that would be what a realistic deal looks like. I wouldn't be too shocked if Gorton tries to weather the storm and get Chia to fold and give us Pulju though.
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I'm not totally convinced someone wouldn't send a first for Zucc, especially if they can pair him with a really good center.

But I don't think the perceived difference between his value last year and this year is tremendous. At least not the extent that others might.
 
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Edge said:
I'm not totally convinced someone wouldn't send a first for Zucc, especially if they can pair him with a really good center.

But I don't think the perceived difference between his value last year and this year is tremendous. At least not the extent that others might.
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The difference last year was the extra playoff run. Basically, last year I would've expected a 1st, decent prospect and a 2nd (or equivalent value to a second). This year, I would expect a 1st and 3rd (or equivalent value to a third).

No matter what, he's still a middle-6 winger.
 
Honestly, if the Rangers can't get better than a 2nd + middling prospect for Zucc, I kind of rather they just extend him. Irrational maybe, but whatever.
 
Not sure they are going to sell one by one for every outgoing, and I'm not sure it will just be pending UFAs outgoing

I think some larger more complex deals are going to be worked out where it's mostly picks/prospects/short term cap dumps to the Rangers yet I would not be surprised to see some Spooner, Name, Strome like stuff come back too. Basically I am expecting last years deadline more or less.
 
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DutchShamrock said:
To play devil's advocate, how many guys took a discount to seize that opportunity? I seem to remember outbidding most free agents. Shattenkirk is one exception and that was only with years, not salary. Now, if money was everything then Edmonton would be more successful. But NYC isn't heads and shoulders above any other city. Maybe it's a check in the pro column during decision making but it usually comes down to paying more than the other teams.

Tkachuk went back to St. Louis after his Atlanta trade but he was raising a family that had roots. The vast majority of pending UFA trades results in the player moving on from his original team. It's so overwhelming that we just have to assume the player is gone.
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Players will always WANT to come here - franchise known for spending / trying to compete consistently plus the draw of city life to many/most 20-somethings.

But the NYR will rarely get a discount. Financial reasons (cost of living, taxes) and the “winner’s curse” i.e. to GET the player you have to be the highest bidder. The team that gets the player is (almost always) the one wIlling to pay the most which makes it more likely that they overpaid. One of many reasons why it is a bad idea to build via free agency.
 
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TheKingsCourt said:
Also Nichushkin and Ritchie are available in Dallas, I know we all have a soft spot for Nich but as long as Ruff is here I doubt we explore that as an option.
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Oof. Such a disappointing group of prospects. Lot of hype for Nich, Ritchie, Honka and Dickinson with very little production. Even Tufte’s not doing much in NCAA. Give me Gurianov for Zucc or look somewhere else.
 
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If it's a 2nd and blah prospect for Zucc I am asking that team what needs to be added or to be taken back to turn it into a 1st and better prospect.

I don't think Nash, or McD/Miller return quite what they did last year without also taking back what they did.

Rangers have lots deal with, even if that comes down to swapping picks or adding in a player who is relatively cheap, even cheaper with retention and also has a year left.

Trying not to take back late 2nds and meh prospects should be a thing even if that means adding some value, or taking back negative value within reason.
 
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Wait longer for when teams have a more definitive idea of where they are in the standings. If you think things might be a little panicky right now in Dallas or say Colorado, it might be worse in 2-3 weeks. Those are teams that NEED to make the playoffs even if its as wild card team.

Zucc is a good asset to have as long as his game continues to get back to normal
 
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Nichushkin would not be a guy I'd be interested in. I mean if Dallas would trade him for a 4th rounder--fine--I might kick the tires then but he doesn't appear to have turned any corners to me. He's been on a downward progression for a while.

Personally I wouldn't be moving Zuccarello right now unless someone offered us the equivalent of a 1st round pick. Not sure that he'll ultimately bring back that kind of return but he seems to be playing a lot better now and if he can keep that going for a while he should increase his value and maybe as high as a 1st. We still have time--no good reason to be impatient.
 
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Off Sides said:
If it's a 2nd and blah prospect for Zucc I am asking that team what needs to be added or to be taken back to turn it into a 1st and better prospect.

I don't think Nash, or McD/Miller return quite what they did last year without also taking back what they did.

Rangers have lots deal with, even if that comes down to swapping picks or adding in a player who is relatively cheap, even cheaper with retention and also has a year left.

Trying not to take back late 2nds and meh prospects should be a thing even if that means adding some value, or taking back negative value within reason.
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Especially a team like Edmonton who has multiple issues on their roster. I know he isn't a RHD, but you'd have to think them potentially adding in someone like Claesson to a trade could get us a 1+prospect.

Zucc +Claesson for Edmonton 1st + prospect? I'm always wary of players Edmonton drafts. They are a terrible drafting team.
 
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The only reason to keep Zuc, IMO, is if there's so many pieces moved this year that they want to keep him around for a veteran presence. I'm talking like a pretty serious purge of the current team.

Otherwise he should go for whatever the best offer is at the deadline. If that's a second and a uninspiring prospect, so be it.
 
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