Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXI

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EdJovanovski

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He relies on physical attributes but is also an awfully slow skater? Hockey IQ doesn't always result in players like Panarin or Fox. Hockey IQ can look like Vlasic in his prime, Shea Weber... you just have really bad takes on Trouba, it's hard to ignore how much you personally hate watching him influences the way you evaluate him.
Strength, hard shot, stamina to log big minutes, etc.
Trouba does not look like a prime Weber lol, the guy gets blown by and beat easier than Marc Staal constantly. He gets caught flat footed more than any dman on our team
 

TheDirtyH

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category.PNG

ranger w trouba.PNG
rangers without trouba.PNG


Notice how with Trouba just about everything was better except the w/l which over 11 games is almost meaningless.
 

bbny

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I get the sense that the negotiations with Petterson are stalled in Vancouver for that exact reason. He sees how terrible the management and owner are and how bare the prospects are when they're supposed to be coming out of a "retool/rebuild". He knows in his heart the Canucks are not built to win. He wants a deal that walks him to UFA ASAP. The Canucks are trying to get their value instead of walking him to UFA too early.


Quick, someone construct a 3 way deal with Eichel going to Van and Petterson going to the Rangers
 

Bruner4329

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We were the best of the worst... beat up on the bad teams, choked miserably against the playoff teams. context matters
Yes and if you look at the entire season it was pretty much the same. Take away the 4 game sweep of the devils when we played them in a row this team really was not in the playoff hunt. I think the defense in part was the issue but so was the offense. If you look at the 3 games above against the Islanders we got 1 goal in total. Shut out by Boston as well. Been saying good defensive teams can shut us down by eliminating open ice, cross ice passes and wait till we turn puck over and pounce. Once we fall behind its game over usually. Heck that even happened opening night. Part of the issue is the forecheck we have and system as well as the fact that our top 2 centers are more finesse that grit. That is why it is imperative that we get a solid 2 way center in as our number 2. Unfortunately things won't change much until we do.
 
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Thirty One

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Yes and if you look at the entire season it was pretty much the same. Take away the 4 game sweep of the devils when we played them in a row this team really was not in the playoff hunt. I think the defense in part was the issue but so was the offense. If you look at the 3 games above against the Islanders we got 1 goal in total. Shut out by Boston as well. Been saying good defensive teams can shut us down by eliminating open ice, cross ice passes and wait till we turn puck over and pounce. Once we fall behind its game over usually. Heck that even happened opening night. Part of the issue is the forecheck we have and system as well as the fact that our top 2 centers are more finesse that grit. That is why it is imperative that we get a solid 2 way center in as our number 2. Unfortunately things won't change much until we do.
Why are we taking away a four game sweep? Are we doing this for the teams we were competing with as well?
 

Bruner4329

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We were missing a lot more than Trouba during that time
Its absolutely true, the defense was a tire fire, the competition really is irrelevant to what was happening on the ice.
When you get shut out 3 times and score only 1 goal against the Islanders in 3 games its more than the defense. The offense was shut down big time when the good teams basically choke our style. We are not a team that can dump and fetch the puck. Our centers like to carry the puck in and inevitably cough it up. I still see all the cross ice passes and back passes leading to odd man rushes against us.
 
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Kupo

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When we lost Trouba due to the broken thumb our record without him:

6-2-0 with a +13 goal differential.

Rangers 3 Flyers 2
Rangers 4 Capitals 1
Rangers 3 Flyers 4
Rangers 6
Bruins 2
Rangers 2 Bruins 4
Rangers 3
Sabres 2
Rangers 6 Devils 1
Rangers 6 Devils 3

As soon as Trouba came back:

0-3-0 with a -10 goal differential

Penguins 5 Rangers 1
Penguins 4 Rangers 2
Bruins 4 Rangers 0

And this is Trouba’s fault? And LOL at the cherry picking here. Those 3 wins against Devils and Sabres would have totally been reversed if Trouba played... :rolleyes:

A few weeks ago you were saying Buch was the best PK in the league. Last year you were saying ADA is a top pairing dmen. Blais is a worst skater than Reaves..

These takes man. They’re just full of total horse shit. You let your emotions see players differently. You often times go out of your way to blame Trouba on plays he clearly was not responsible for. It’s hard to take your opinion seriously when you’re so biased.

You just mocked people for bringing up the fact that Trouba’s advanced stats this past season were strong. But, you also repeatedly posted Buch’s advanced stats to try and justify why he was the best PK forward in the league.

Cmon man... :facepalm:
 

East Coast Bias

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Let me ask you this question… Would you sign Jacob Trouba today for seven years $56 million?

I would sign him for 5 years, 8m. Which is what his contract is. Would I prefer 7m a year? yeah I would. But in a summer where Jones and Nurse signed for 9m, it's not the end of hte world.

Trouba also signed his deal when Fox was a kid who never played an NHL game. Deangelo was an offensive dman who could never handle the hard matchups. Which is something repeatedly overlooked to make a point.
 
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TheBloodyNine

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I'd do 8 years for Mika but not at a penny more than 8.5. A dollar over that amount and the years start getting hacked off. If that doesn't do it then he's free to get that elsewhere. The Rangers can make another trade, sign other players.
 

duhmetreE

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And this is Trouba’s fault? And LOL at the cherry picking here. Those 3 wins against Devils and Sabres would have totally been reversed if Trouba played... :rolleyes:

A few weeks ago you were saying Buch was the best PK in the league. Last year you were saying ADA is a top pairing dmen. Blais is a worst skater than Reaves..

These takes man. They’re just full of total horse shit. You let your emotions see players differently. You often times go out of your way to blame Trouba on plays he clearly was not responsible for. It’s hard to take your opinion seriously when you’re so biased.

You just mocked people for bringing up the fact that Trouba’s advanced stats this past season were strong. But, you also repeatedly posted Buch’s advanced stats to try and justify why he was the best PK forward in the league.

Cmon man... :facepalm:

He's reaching out for help...

iu


I'm here for you @EdJovanovski...
 

Thirty One

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Trouba also signed his deal when Fox was a kid who never played an NHL game. Deangelo was an offensive dman who could never handle the hard matchups. Which is something repeatedly overlooked to make a point.
Before Trouba, people were penciling in DeAngelo, rookie Fox and Shattenkirk on the right side. Coach's dream.
 

jay from jersey

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I would sign him for 5 years, 8m. Which is what his contract is. Would I prefer 7m a year? yeah I would. But in a summer where Jones and Nurse signed for 9m, it's not the end of hte world.


Trouba also signed his deal when Fox was a kid who never played an NHL game. Deangelo was an offensive dman who could never handle the hard matchups. Which is something repeatedly overlooked to make a point.

absolutely. Especially if your right side was a bunch of untested kids that are mostly 6’0 and under and below 200lbs.
Context matters.
When the trade was made we had Pionk, ADA, and an untested Fox, with Lundkvist doing well as a prospect in the system.
I know people like to say size doesn’t matter, but when your 6’3 and 220 plus and can play top 4 minutes and use your size effectively, teams are going to want you especially come playoff time.
Not only that, he’s shown the capability that his game has offense. He’s a hoot transition defender with a good out let pass, even though his role has changed a bit with NY. He still has the capability of giving you 30-40 pts a year. Put up 50 with the Jets, but won’t come close to that here with no PP time.
 
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EdJovanovski

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And this is Trouba’s fault? And LOL at the cherry picking here. Those 3 wins against Devils and Sabres would have totally been reversed if Trouba played... :rolleyes:

A few weeks ago you were saying Buch was the best PK in the league. Last year you were saying ADA is a top pairing dmen. Blais is a worst skater than Reaves..

These takes man. They’re just full of total horse shit. You let your emotions see players differently. You often times go out of your way to blame Trouba on plays he clearly was not responsible for. It’s hard to take your opinion seriously when you’re so biased.

You just mocked people for bringing up the fact that Trouba’s advanced stats this past season were strong. But, you also repeatedly posted Buch’s advanced stats to try and justify why he was the best PK forward in the league.

Cmon man... :facepalm:
But now you're cherry picking an even smaller sample size by picking out the bad teams they played when they also played the Bruins twice, Flyers twice & Capitals once. (Flyers were one of the best teams in the league that year, I know they fell off a cliff this year) It's not easy to go on 3 game winning streaks regardless of the teams your playing in todays parity league, I don't get why we would remove those from the record. So winning against bad teams doesn't count, but how do we determine who the good teams are? Should we take away all of the Caps, Pens & Bruins wins they have from beating up on those bottom teams too? Then they're just barely above average teams. Shouldn't we have been a bad team ourselves when our defence was a tirefire without Trouba? somehow we still steamrolled the bad teams

In the last season DeAngelo played he was certainly a top dman, we'll see how he does this year. Buch is one of the best PK'ers in the league, I don't base any of my opinions on analytics but based on the eye test I thought he was one of the best, then the analytics backed that up. If you go back in GDT's you'll see all the times people pointed out him breaking up plays and clearing the puck on the PK. The eye test totally backs up that he is an elite PK'er, which was crazy considering he was always seen as a lazy one dimensional player.

Many people let their emotions get in the way, how many people hate certain players for stuff that is completely unrelated to hockey? I dislike Trouba's contract & where that fits into our rebuild, I think he's overrated. I don't hate the guy, I cheer when he scores, lays someone out, etc. There are a lot of people (even NYR beat writers) who genuinely cheer AGAINST players on their own team because they hate them personally.
 
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duhmetreE

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When you get shut out 3 times and score only 1 goal against the Islanders in 3 games its more than the defense. The offense was shut down big time when the good teams basically choke our style. We are not a team that can dump and fetch the puck. Our centers like to carry the puck in and inevitably cough it up. I still see all the cross ice passes and back passes leading to odd man rushes against us.
That was mostly a coaching limitation
 

RangersFan1994

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perfect trade option

Eichel to Canucks
Pettersson to Rangers
Mika Zibanejad to Golden Knights
young NHL youth and picks to Sabres
 
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NYR Viper

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Would anyone give Mike Zibanejad $56M over 8 seasons? The Avs gave Landeskog this contract which is not buyout proof. Zibanejad played all 56 games last season. The guy played every game. He had Covid. He didn't miss a game. He had 50 points. 24 goals and 26 assists. If you project those numbers over a full 82 game season, that is 73 point season. 35 goal season. 38 assists. For all the complaints about his bad play, the guy was on a pace for a 35 goal season.

Full NMC in the first four seasons. Limited NTC in the remaining four seasons.

If Mika finishes the contract on LTIR, the Rangers can use the money to build their team with other players. TB does it. The league is running out of players to trade for to put on LTIR.

Same exact contract. No big signing bonuses at the end of the contract.

Money is tight around the NHL right now. There weren't many crazy long term contracts. The two big contracts were Landeskog and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins this off-season. Both of them were max 8 year contracts. There were not many big free agent contracts signed last off-season. Alex Pietrangelo is the lone exception. The bag of money will probably not be waiting for Zibanejad as a free agent. Money is tight everywhere. Mika gets his long term security.

View attachment 460599

I love this idea. I'd even go to $60m over 8 seasons due to center versus wing (Zibanejad vs Landeskog)
 

duhmetreE

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Mika is a great player. He will continue to flourish under Gallant. Give him his 5-6 years (9-10M) and find a good 2way middle6 center. Let Chytil continue to develop or give Kravtsov a shot.

1. Mika-
2a.'Cirielli-type'
2b. Chytil/Kravtsov/Goodrow/Barron

should be good enough to win with the rest of our roster.

'wE nEeEd tAlEnt!' we have talent. We just got the 1st overall pick.... and the 2nd. We have Panarin and Zibs. We have Kravtsov, Kreider and Chytil. We have a NORRIS winner and great depth. WE HAVE ENOUGH TALENT. We do not need an Eichel type.
 

EdJovanovski

#RempeForCalder
Apr 26, 2016
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The Rempire State
Mika is a great player. He will continue to flourish under Gallant. Give him his 5-6 years (9-10M) and find a good 2way middle6 center. Let Chytil continue to develop or give Kravtsov a shot.

1. Mika-
2a.'Cirielli-type'
2b. Chytil/Kravtsov/Goodrow/Barron

should be good enough to win with the rest of our roster.
I've yet to see a single argument against Kravtsov at center other than "It's hard to switch positions". Like there are many players who have a skillset that doesn't match center, even Chytil who is a center; he has tunnel-vision and there are a lot of attributes that would make him a less than ideal. Kravtsov has all the ideal attributes you look for in a center
 

TheBloodyNine

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Petterson is not getting traded. He wants to sign with the Canucks but he just wants a contract that gets him to UFA sooner rather than later just in case they are still dogshit.
 

LokiDog

Get pucks deep. Get pucks to the net. And, uh…
Sep 13, 2018
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Referencing the way our offensive was choked by teams that play an Islander/Canadiens style... I'd say that's exactly why guys like Blais and Goodrow were brought in and you'll likely see them getting bigger roles than anticipated. We were too much of one thing offensively. Blais or Goodrow may not merit top-six minutes on their own, but as seen with Blackwell, you don't need to in order to be effective on the Panarin line. What is needed is guys who can make dump and chase work more effectively, who forecheck hard, disrupt the breakout with physicality and allow the Rangers to establish possession against teams that trap and clog the neutral zone. Being able to breakthrough against those defensive teams is a necessary step to competing and it's a necessity in the post-season when 'pretty' doesn't get it done. Even a guy like Hunt is a good add to the 4th line, even if he only dresses 50% of the time, in this capacity.

Obviously we have the offensive depth and potency to put goals on the board. Being able to crack those teams that neutralized that offensive talent with some grit and tenacity on the chip and chase game will help. The defense has been the bigger issue overall, and with Miller gaining another year of experience and Nemeth/Lundkvist replacing Smith/Bitteto/Hajek, we should see an improvement there as well. More help on the way with Robertson and Schneider as well.
 
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