Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXI

[Tob]

So Quinn is to blame for Ruff being here the year before instead of Martin, who wasn't available at the time?

I blame Gorton for that puzzling 4 year Ruff tenure. My point is the coaching staff couldn't ice an NHL calibre defense scheme.

 

[EpicDing]

Let me ask you this question… Would you sign Jacob Trouba today for seven years $56 million?

No, but our right defense situation is lightyears better now than it was 2 years ago.

 

[gravey9]

What are the chances Lundkvist tops out as the next Pionk?

It's possible. I think Lundkvist's IQ and leadership is better. And his shot is definitely one of the hardest, most accurate I've seen from the D position in a long time. But he could certainly top out at Pionk. Which wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

When we lost Trouba due to the broken thumb our record without him:

6-2-0 with a +13 goal differential.

Rangers 3 Flyers 2
Rangers 4 Capitals 1
Rangers 3 Flyers 4
Rangers 6 Bruins 2
Rangers 2 Bruins 4
Rangers 3 Sabres 2
Rangers 6 Devils 1
Rangers 6 Devils 3

As soon as Trouba came back:

0-3-0 with a -10 goal differential

Penguins 5 Rangers 1
Penguins 4 Rangers 2
Bruins 4 Rangers 0

What’s the sample size outside of the 3 games you cherry picked lol

 

[EdJovanovski]

Trouba’s contract is fine. It’s in line with what other defensemen are making

Seth Jones is a worse player and signed for way more

The only people who think Trouba is better than Jones are people who are obsessed with advanced stats lol Jones is way better than Trouba, and in Troubas first season with us he had worse analytics than Marc Staal. He had the worst on our team. But anyway, does Chicago have a Norris winning RD on his ELC (Fox)? Arguably the best RD prospect in the world (Lundkvist)? Another one of the best RD prospects (Schneider)? Does Chicago have to sign Lafreniere, Fox, Kakko, etc to extensions?

I think the context makes Trouba's contract much worse

 

[n8]

Was always a Pionk fan. He was used incorrectly here, but he did lead to the Rangers getting Trouba who’s better so I think that trade was a win/win

more of a win/lose//win/lose. we both win on players but lose on our respective contracts.

 

[duhmetreE]

Since we got Trouba, our record without Trouba is way better than our record with Trouba, and our goals against is way lower too.

We were the best of the worst... beat up on the bad teams, choked miserably against the playoff teams. context matters

 

[EdJovanovski]

What’s the sample size outside of the 3 games you cherry picked lol

Those are the first 3 games since he came back I didn't cherry pick ones we lost, I could go further but our record would still be way worse than the run we went on when Trouba was out. Overall since he's been on our team our record is better with him than without him, especially in the goals against category

 

[RangerBoy]

Would anyone give Mike Zibanejad $56M over 8 seasons? The Avs gave Landeskog this contract which is not buyout proof. Zibanejad played all 56 games last season. The guy played every game. He had Covid. He didn't miss a game. He had 50 points. 24 goals and 26 assists. If you project those numbers over a full 82 game season, that is 73 point season. 35 goal season. 38 assists. For all the complaints about his bad play, the guy was on a pace for a 35 goal season.

Full NMC in the first four seasons. Limited NTC in the remaining four seasons.

If Mika finishes the contract on LTIR, the Rangers can use the money to build their team with other players. TB does it. The league is running out of players to trade for to put on LTIR.

Same exact contract. No big signing bonuses at the end of the contract.

Money is tight around the NHL right now. There weren't many crazy long term contracts. The two big contracts were Landeskog and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins this off-season. Both of them were max 8 year contracts. There were not many big free agent contracts signed last off-season. Alex Pietrangelo is the lone exception. The bag of money will probably not be waiting for Zibanejad as a free agent. Money is tight everywhere. Mika gets his long term security.

 

[LOFIN]

I get the sense that the negotiations with Petterson are stalled in Vancouver for that exact reason. He sees how terrible the management and owner are and how bare the prospects are when they're supposed to be coming out of a "retool/rebuild". He knows in his heart the Canucks are not built to win. He wants a deal that walks him to UFA ASAP. The Canucks are trying to get their value instead of walking him to UFA too early.

Benning is acting on desperation. All these moves he has made, he's trying to make one more push for the playoffs. He has improved this offseason, and considering what dog shit that Pacific division is, making it shouldn't be difficult. But that OEL contract... Should've just waited out on those horrible contracts he traded away, they were 1 year away from expiring.

Will be interesting to see what happens with Peterson. I hadn't even paid attention to those negotiations with all this Kaprizov drama (which is overblown in itself) going on, but I can't imagine them getting him for anything else but a bridge contract. 13 million to sign both Q.Hughes and Petterson... 6x8 for Hughes, 2x5 for Petterson. That's my guess, unless they free up some more capspace somehow.

 

[EdJovanovski]

We were the best of the worst... beat up on the bad teams, choked miserably against the playoff teams. context matters

If context matters so does the fact that Trouba was far from the only player missing during that time. The other sample I used was when Trouba was the only variable as no one else was missing

Either way, this proves that it is not true that our defence fell off a cliff whenever he's gone. And it certainly won't fall off a cliff if he were gone when Fox, Miller, Lindgren, Jones etc are a year older with the additions of Lundkvist & Schneider. Trouba barely makes sense now, that contract will be an absolute anchor in a couple years

 

[TheDirtyH]

11 games out of that tire fire of a shortened season is not a sound basis to say we were better without the player. In hockey you can win games when you're the worse team.

 

[Thirty One]

Would anyone give Mike Zibanejad $56M over 8 seasons? The Avs gave Landeskog this contract which is not buyout proof. Zibanejad played all 56 games last season. The guy played every game. He had Covid. He didn't miss a game. He had 50 points. 24 goals and 26 assists. If you project those numbers over a full 82 game season, that is 73 point season. 35 goal season. 38 assists. For all the complaints about his bad play, the guy was on a pace for a 35 goal season.

You need to lower your expectations here. Zibanejad will get a lot more than that. I don't want you to get hurt like your expectations for a Buch trade.

 

[TheDirtyH]

If context matters so does the fact that Trouba was far from the only player missing during that time. The other sample I used was when Trouba was the only variable as no one else was missing

Either way, this proves that it is not true that our defence fell off a cliff whenever he's gone. And it certainly won't fall off a cliff if he were gone when Fox, Miller, Lindgren, Jones etc are a year older with the additions of Lundkvist & Schneider. Trouba barely makes sense now, that contract will be an absolute anchor in a couple years

Trouba's play improved immensely from his first year to last year. Just to play devil's advocate, why are you so certain he won't continue to improve?

 

[EdJovanovski]

11 games out of that tire fire of a shortened season is not a sound basis to say we were better without the player. In hockey you can win games when you're the worse team.

I was responding to the claim that our team turned into a tirefire when he's gone when that is objectively not true, if our team actually had a losing record without him then people would say that sample is meaningful

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Fox looked unworldly when Trouba was in, looked overloaded when he was out. I like him in the lineup. If the cap kept rising his contract would be looking decent now, the flat cap messed up his and Kreider's contracts bad( i wanted them to trade Kreider).Trouba takes a lot of hard minutes, plays physical and makes teams think twice when crossing the blueline, there's a ton of value in that, my only beef is he cant hit the net to save his soul, i have no idea why.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I was responding to the claim that our team turned into a tirefire when he's gone when that is objectively not true, if our team actually had a losing record without him then people would say that sample is meaningful

in that same sample our defensive metrics were markedly worse than the rest of the season... is my point

 

[EdJovanovski]

Trouba's play improved immensely from his first year to last year. Just to play devil's advocate, why are you so certain he won't continue to improve?

Because he's a 27 year old dman whose game relies on physical attributes rather than IQ, he is also already an awfully slow skater and that will only get worse with age. I don't doubt he improves next year under Gallant, but I think long term we need to move him. I think Lundkvist will be the better player and Schneider should be his equal; and they both line up a lot better with our age & cap situation too.

 

[LannyMcdonald]

When we lost Trouba due to the broken thumb our record without him:

6-2-0 with a +13 goal differential.

Rangers 3 Flyers 2
Rangers 4 Capitals 1
Rangers 3 Flyers 4
Rangers 6 Bruins 2
Rangers 2 Bruins 4
Rangers 3 Sabres 2
Rangers 6 Devils 1
Rangers 6 Devils 3

As soon as Trouba came back:

0-3-0 with a -10 goal differential

Penguins 5 Rangers 1
Penguins 4 Rangers 2
Bruins 4 Rangers 0

Big difference playing the Sabres and Devils as opposed to the Bruins and Pens. (Btw, that's also how Mika racked up many of his goals).

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I was responding to the claim that our team turned into a tirefire when he's gone when that is objectively not true, if our team actually had a losing record without him then people would say that sample is meaningful

Its absolutely true, the defense was a tire fire, the competition really is irrelevant to what was happening on the ice.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Because he's a 27 year old dman whose game relies on physical attributes rather than IQ, he is also already an awfully slow skater and that will only get worse with age. I don't doubt he improves next year under Gallant, but I think long term we need to move him. I think Lundkvist will be the better player and Schneider should be his equal; and they both line up a lot better with our age & cap situation too.

He relies on physical attributes but is also an awfully slow skater? Hockey IQ doesn't always result in players like Panarin or Fox. Hockey IQ can look like Vlasic in his prime, Shea Weber... you just have really bad takes on Trouba, it's hard to ignore how much you personally hate watching him influences the way you evaluate him.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Big difference playing the Sabres and Devils as opposed to the Bruins and Pens. (Btw, that's also how Mika racked up many of his goals).

Are you ignoring that 2 of the games without him were against the Bruins where we split & had a goal differential of +2 compared to -4 when Trouba was in the lineup? We also beat the Capitals 4-1, also beat the Flyers who were one of the best teams in the league that year.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

In a world where Nurse is a $9M+ player and Goligoski is a $5M player I’m not sure Trouba is even overpaid.

Is he overpaid for past PP usage that he is unlikely to get w the NYR moving forward? That’s a different argument.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Because he's a 27 year old dman whose game relies on physical attributes rather than IQ, he is also already an awfully slow skater and that will only get worse with age. I don't doubt he improves next year under Gallant, but I think long term we need to move him. I think Lundkvist will be the better player and Schneider should be his equal; and they both line up a lot better with our age & cap situation too.

I dont think anyone disagrees with the possibility of him being eventually moved or bought out but he is important right now

 

[Thirty One]

my only beef is he cant hit the net to save his soul, i have no idea why.

Since he's got here, he's sixth on the team in shots on goal. The five that are ahead of him:
1. Are all forwards
2. Played significantly more on the powerplay

FAKE NEWS.