Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXI

[DutchShamrock]

I think 30 other teams could and would come with a better package than that for Marner.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

I think they would want Kreider over Zbad, as they already have Tavares, Matthews and Kadri down the middle. But that is a deal I would do.

And I'd be fine with Kreider and Skjei for Marner too. Marner is legit.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

I think 30 other teams could and would come with a better package than that for Marner.

I'd add.

 

[Avery16]

I think 30 other teams could and would come with a better package than that for Marner.

Kreider and Skjei is a pretty significant starter.

 

[Ola]

Trade McQuaid at the deadline, Claesson rights for a later pick at the draft (or a pick at the deadline), and bury Smith, there is one spot. I don't like the idea of forcing the kids to come up, they may or may not be ready. If they are, we find a way to get them up (by trade or demotion or even long term injury).

I agree, have we done a good job developing the kids we have had up in NY lately? IMO it’s a clear no. Why should any other kid be brought up here then unless they force their way?

A good rule of thumb is that a kid should be one of the better players on the ice when things are going their way to be ready, because kids have very high ups and very deep lows. Howden fits that criteria. TDA fits that criteria. Pionk is doing a lot of really good things.

 

[Ola]

McQuaid being “worth” a third and Claesson having no value tells you everything that’s wrong with this league. Claesson is a much better player.

I agree, but if Claesson was a RHS he would be get 4-5m per instantly and fetch us a 1st. Everyone have a logjam at LD and are looking for RDs...

 

[DanielBrassard]

Kreider and Skjei is a pretty significant starter.

Not for Marner. Kreider is great but only has 1 year left on his deal and Skjei just isn't that good and has a hefty contract.

 

[Ola]

So we estimated deadline sell prices last season, with some variation.

I think we got more for Nash than expected, maybe a little less for Holden (I was hoping for a 2nd). Grabner depends on how you figure Rykov's value stacks up.

For this year, assuming we sell everyone...

Zuccarello I'd say is in 1st or 2nd+Rykov level value territory. Increase if he can turn this season around statistically.
My preference is to extend Hayes, but if we sell him, I'd expect a good return. Nash level territory. I think the team trading for Hayes will be intending to lock him up to a contract.
McQuaid isn't very good, as we all know. But his playoff reputation might get us a 3rd for him.
Claesson is, in my opinion, not holding any trade value. He's in and out of the lineup on one of the worst 3 defensive groups in the league. I can't imagine a competitive team seeing him fit into their roster.

The guys not expiring this year are obvious question marks. BBK has hinted at some unorthodox moves. But if we get fair value and TBL win the cup NYR could have a year of 4 first round draft picks. More realistically, 3+2+2

Yeah, I also wouldn’t at all be surprised if we made any ‘hockey trades’. Jimmy Vesey in a 1 for 1 deal for another mid-20 player. Moves like that.

This rebuild must be a multi-front battle. We cannot just draft players and wait for a team to emerge on the ice, it’s really far from being possible to do. We must exhaust all possible sources for assets and one of them is certainly to develop players in house. Rozsival is a good example of when we have done that in the past.

Having the opportunity to afford to give guys in that 20-23 y/o range a shot to take that next step is a really valuable opportunity for a rebuilding team. Looking at teams like Pittsburgh and Washington when they got out of trouble under the wings of Crosby and AO — they also built entire cores mainly around guys like this. Look at the early versions of those teams, where did all players come from? Brooks Laiche was a throw-in in the Bondra trade. Fleichman came in the Lang trade. For Pittsburgh a bunch of guys made it from their AHL team that wasn’t that highly touted, Tyler Kennedy, Malone, Orpik and co.

All those guys were players on the verge for sure, but it was huge for them to get to come into the NHL on a team that had many openings and establish themselves, it’s no coincidence that a bunch of guys broke into the NHL at the same time for those teams. Gorts must also just roll up his sleeves and clear the mess we have on the blueline.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Vesey/Zibanejad/Kravstov
Names/TorontoC/Buchnevich
Chytil/Howden/Strome
Andersson/Nieves/Fast

Beleskey
Lettieri

This is ok.

I went into a blind fury of rage seeing Vesey on the top line.

 

[Avery16]

I went into a blind fury of rage seeing Vesey on the top line.

He only had to beat out Namestnikov, Chytil and Andersson. This is a drawback of trading Kreider. But Vesey playing better than many here give him credit for. He's more of a middle-six W than a top-six W, but wing depth is what we'd be trading for C depth in that move.

 

[kovazub94]

I could easily see Buchnevich getting moved at the deadline. He's on an ELC and a team like Edmonton who is desperate for scoring wingers and has major cap issues would probably love to add him for the right price.

Jesper Fast is a perfect deadline acquisition. Inexpensive forward depth who has another year on his deal. Teams always want to improve special teams heading down the stretch.

Kreider has to be in play, but only for a premium return.

Zibanejad is probably a draft day deal if he goes at all. I still think he's a building block unless he can fetch something absurd or be used in a package to get an elite player from a team who has cap issues looming and the need for a 2nd line center. Looking at you, Winnipeg.

I think Buchnevich’s contract situation from the Rangers perspective is being overlooked. His ELC production has not been impressive and he hasn’t stayed healthy and has often been accused of playing below expectations. His next contract is not going to be expensive and should be somewhere on a level of an average third liner. Wouldn’t the Rangers want to keep him at this cap hit and still possible significant performance upside? What a trading partner would be willing to offer to entice the Rangers to give up on the upside? If the Rangers were at least playoff bound I could see them giving up on the upside and make a trade for more stability. But in the current situation you only make a trade if there’s more upside in what’s coming back.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

I agree, but if Claesson was a RHS he would be get 4-5m per instantly and fetch us a 1st. Everyone have a logjam at LD and are looking for RDs...

I don't know... a 2nd maybe and 3+M...

 

[Ola]

I don't know... a 2nd maybe and 3+M...

I don't know... a 2nd maybe and 3+M...

Yeah it’s hard to know. But I wouldn’t fall off a chair if someone like Nick Jensen got 4m per this summer...

 

[bobbop]

There are 8 teams in the west within 6-7 points of the wildcard spots.

Just 4 in the east.

That's 4-12 teams that are either looking to maintain their positions, or attempting to make up a small difference

I think the buyers/sellers are still developing and we have a full month before that picture is more clear

There is a big difference to making a trade because “we’ve got to make the playoffs” (e.g. Edmonton, Carolina) and we’ve got a chance to win The Cup (e.g. Boston, Winnipeg etc.) That’s what we are dealing with. Teams with a chance for The Cup will overpay. Passengers won’t.

 

[Ola]

Matthews, Marner, and Nylander just aren't going to fit under the cap with Tavares still on the books. One needs to be dealt. Matthews and Marner are both getting at least $10 million/season.

The cap is going up every year, the Cap can be 90m in two seasons. Should be 90m? That is one of those guys alone just in that gain. Marleau is coming of the books.

Hasn’t teams been able to play with like 40% of their cap spent on 4 players before? 24m for 4 guys when the cap was at 60m? 20m for 4 guys when the cap was 50m?

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Me neither, it's gotten crazy for RDs... Stralman/Myers could get 7M+.

 

[bobbop]

Even with yesterday’s win, the Rangers held on to ninth (from the bottom) in the standings, five points behind the ping pong ball leader Philadelphia. (Didn’t Philadelphia have 97 points last year and add JVR? Oy!)

You have got to give the league credit...no one is really giving up. Ottawa won two games on the west coast this week, Chicago is playing well and LA beat Pittsburgh last night.

 

[Ola]

I think Buchnevich’s contract situation from the Rangers perspective is being overlooked. His ELC production has not been impressive and he hasn’t stayed healthy and has often been accused of playing below expectations. His next contract is not going to be expensive and should be somewhere on a level of an average third liner. Wouldn’t the Rangers want to keep him at this cap hit and still possible significant performance upside? What a trading partner would be willing to offer to entice the Rangers to give up on the upside? If the Rangers were at least playoff bound I could see them giving up on the upside and make a trade for more stability. But in the current situation you only make a trade if there’s more upside in what’s coming back.

Exactly.

You can’t only be looking for bargains, you need players capable of handle roles and situations too. But Buch as a wing don’t worry me much in that regard. And he should give us a good bang for the buck the coming years.

 

[pld459666]

There is a big difference to making a trade because “we’ve got to make the playoffs” (e.g. Edmonton, Carolina) and we’ve got a chance to win The Cup (e.g. Boston, Winnipeg etc.) That’s whatvwe are dealing with

Agreed, the teams with a shot pay more, but it doesn't lessen the idea that an team like Chicago will pay for a player to get Toews and Kane, Keith and the rest of the squad a shot at post season.

When you have these guys, you make the extra effort to give them a chance at post season success

 

[bobbop]

Agreed, the teams with a shot pay more, but it doesn't lessen the idea that an team like Chicago will pay for a player to get Toews and Kane, Keith and the rest of the squad a shot at post season.

When you have these guys, you make the extra effort to give them a chance at post season success

I think they need to get a little closer before they do a significant deal.

 

[Irishguy42]

With the thought that there will be a ton of sellers at the TDL this year, it makes sense to sell now as opposed to later.

 

[Trxjw]

I think Buchnevich’s contract situation from the Rangers perspective is being overlooked. His ELC production has not been impressive and he hasn’t stayed healthy and has often been accused of playing below expectations. His next contract is not going to be expensive and should be somewhere on a level of an average third liner. Wouldn’t the Rangers want to keep him at this cap hit and still possible significant performance upside? What a trading partner would be willing to offer to entice the Rangers to give up on the upside? If the Rangers were at least playoff bound I could see them giving up on the upside and make a trade for more stability. But in the current situation you only make a trade if there’s more upside in what’s coming back.

I'm not advocating tossing the kid away for whatever is available. I'm saying I could definitely see the Rangers moving him under the right circumstances. Say if they are unable to get back into the 1st round with both Hayes and Zucc, or if a team who desperately needs a scoring forward is willing to pony up something promising.

The Flyers dealt Schenn, a serviceable player with upside, for a roster player and two first round picks. They took Morgan Frost and Joel Farabee. They may have turned one 55 point player into two 55 point players. That's the kind of risk the Rangers can afford to take right now.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

There are also other young players in the league who don't quite fit, or put it together consistently etc. I can definitely see us making a downscale version of the Galchenyuk-Domi trade with Buch

 

[Ola]

With the thought that there will be a ton of sellers at the TDL this year, it makes sense to sell now as opposed to later.

Maybe Gorts should buy at the deadline and then sell at the draft? Hehe, its overthinking it even for me...

 

[kovazub94]

I'm not advocating tossing the kid away for whatever is available. I'm saying I could definitely see the Rangers moving him under the right circumstances. Say if they are unable to get back into the 1st round with both Hayes and Zucc, or if a team who desperately needs a scoring forward is willing to pony up something promising.

The Flyers dealt Schenn, a serviceable player with upside, for a roster player and two first round picks. They took Morgan Frost and Joel Farabee. They may have turned one 55 point player into two 55 point players. That's the kind of risk the Rangers can afford to take right now.

Of course anything is possible but

a. I don’t want Buchnevich to become an add-on who only incrementally increases the return, and

b. There should be a better example since Schenn was a lot more accomplished and an established top6 in the NHL to bring this level of return, and Philadelphia wasn’t going through the bottom of rebuild like the Rangers are now and wanted to clear a spot for Patrick.

That’s essentially why I don’t think Buchnevich could be moved - other teams would now be willing to trade on the upside and the Rangers don’t need to give up on it.

Edit: Galchenyuk Domi is a better example. Or the other Strome trade between Arizona and Chicago. Would there be a team willing to move a recent former 1st rounder for Buch?