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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXI - Let's make a deal

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Fitzy said:
Disagree.

Rykov and Keane appear to be potentially not far away. Hajek and Lindgren haven't shared much time yet this season. We have Smith that we can shift back to the third pairing in a pinch. Miller, Lundkvist, and Jones are the long plays.

We're talking about D in part because it could be a vehicle for us to fix the forward situation you alluded to. Barron is the only F prospect who looks like he might even be NHL ready by the 2022-2023 season, unless theres a turnaround with Kravtsov.

That's why we're talking about trading guys like Skjei or DeAngelo, as well as re-signing Fast and Strome. We all agree we need to do something about the F situation.
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Here's the thing, as someone whose watched most of the pack games this year. Keane and Rykov may be just about ready for the NHL on some level, but they're not ready to assume holes left by top 4 D like Skjei or DeAngelo. They are a few years at best from reaching whatever their potential is. And I'm not convinced Rykov or Hajek will become Skjei. And I'm not convinced Keane will be DeAngelo.

Rykov was playing pretty strong until about 3 games ago. He's played 2 and not quite looked as strong as before. And he was scratched for the other. He may be banged up again. And when he is playing at his strongest, I think it's fairly on par with Hajek. I don't think he's ready for anything but 6-7 duty. As a result, I think he's fine to leave in the A for now.

I get that at D we seem to have organizational depth. But the depth we're talking about isn't proven or ready. We're absolutely not at the point to capitalize on our depth that way because the vast majority of the depth is based on future potential.

Similar to our goaltending situation. We need to see what we have first before we make any trades. Let the kids knock on the door loudly. Bring them up, see how they do for stretches before moving really key guys out.
 
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gravey9 said:
Here's the thing, as someone whose watched most of the pack games this year. Keane and Rykov may be just about ready for the NHL on some level, but they're not ready to assume holes left by top 4 D like Skjei or DeAngelo. They are a few years at best from reaching whatever their potential is. And I'm not convinced Rykov or Hajek will become Skjei. And I'm not convinced Keane will be DeAngelo.
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But they wouldn't have to. Fox is fine for top-four minutes. Hajek and Lindgren might not be, but Skjei is looking like a 2nd pair D and we will never get a batter return on him. If you have two ELCs that can do not much worse than the person making 5 mill, you ask and see what people will give you for the guy making 5 mill, especially when you're in a cap crunch and having to move players out on pennies for the dollar because the whole league knows. I'm looking forward to seeing Rykov and Keane get some games this season.
 
One more point about the young D. One of the goals heading into the season was to see what we had with Rykov and Hajek. Both have been derailed somewhat by injury. That said, I do think its really important to give both more NHL time this season. This is their window to develop their games into NHL regulars. Especially important if Marc Staal is at all considering retirement in the off-season.
 
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Avery16 said:
But they wouldn't have to. Fox is fine for top-four minutes. Hajek and Lindgren might not be, but Skjei is looking like a 2nd pair D and we will never get a batter return on him. If you have two ELCs that can do not much worse than the person making 5 mill, you ask and see what people will give you for the guy making 5 mill, especially when you're in a cap crunch and having to move players out on pennies for the dollar because the whole league knows. I'm looking forward to seeing Rykov and Keane get some games this season.
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It's unclear that we have a cap crunch. Right now, we have about 15m for Strome, deangelo, lemieux and fast. Assuming Kreider and Georgie are gone. And there's a decent shot salary cap is going up a few mil. and that's with leaving Staal, Henrik and Smith on the roster. I think it's very doable.

The issue is, how do we upgrade the forwards? And how do we do it without gutting our current D.

Sure, it's true Skjei may only be a 2nd pair D. But trading him would leave us in a very bad spot on the left side. He may be overmatched at #1 LD but he's also sheltering all of our other LD from being overwhelmed even worse. We'd have Staal as our #1 LD? Lindgren, Hajek and Rykov after that. Maybe Reunanen next year. Move Tony D to his off-hand? Miller, Robertson and Jones are years away. And none may be top 2 material for 4-5 years at minimum. I just don't see it.
 
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bobbop said:
If you haven’t noticed, Quinn has been using Fox and ADA as a pair later in games when the Rangers are behind and he shortens the bench.
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Yup. I'd like to see more of that. See if it makes sense to have ADA play there in larger chunks.
 
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bobbop said:
If you haven’t noticed, Quinn has been using Fox and ADA as a pair later in games when the Rangers are behind and he shortens the bench.
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He's expanded their usage even further lately. They were on with the Panarin line for an offensive zone start when we scored the 1st goal last night.

We have scored goals at a greater rate (11.52 GF/60) than Edmonton's league leading 5v4 PP (11.12) in the 31 minutes of 5v5 play where Panarin, DeAngelo and Fox has been on the ice.
 
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Kovalev27 said:
If we’re firing Quinn which I doubt but if we were to do so there’s only one guy we should even consider and that’s Laviolette. A great great coach.
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I wish the timing had been right for us to go for Quenneville when he became available. Maybe we should've waited for Keefe.
 
I believe Heinen plays all 3 forward spots. And Boston May feel that since his offense hasn’t come on like they hoped, they would prefer to save some money on the cap moving forward and avoid his next RFA contract.
 
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NYR Viper said:
I believe Heinen plays all 3 forward spots. And Boston May feel that since his offense hasn’t come on like they hoped, they would prefer to save some money on the cap moving forward and avoid his next RFA contract.
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Heinen cant even be the second best piece coming to us in a Kreider trade.
 
gravey9 said:
Here's the thing, as someone whose watched most of the pack games this year. Keane and Rykov may be just about ready for the NHL on some level, but they're not ready to assume holes left by top 4 D like Skjei or DeAngelo. They are a few years at best from reaching whatever their potential is. And I'm not convinced Rykov or Hajek will become Skjei. And I'm not convinced Keane will be DeAngelo.

Rykov was playing pretty strong until about 3 games ago. He's played 2 and not quite looked as strong as before. And he was scratched for the other. He may be banged up again. And when he is playing at his strongest, I think it's fairly on par with Hajek. I don't think he's ready for anything but 6-7 duty. As a result, I think he's fine to leave in the A for now.

I get that at D we seem to have organizational depth. But the depth we're talking about isn't proven or ready. We're absolutely not at the point to capitalize on our depth that way because the vast majority of the depth is based on future potential.

Similar to our goaltending situation. We need to see what we have first before we make any trades. Let the kids knock on the door loudly. Bring them up, see how they do for stretches before moving really key guys out.
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To be fair, I think Rykov and Hajek could absolutely be better than Skjei. They certainly dont need the offense that Skjei sometimes produces given what we have with ADA & Fox. Even Trouba to a degree. They just need them to play competent defense and not make braindead mistakes constantly and they’d already be an improvement. Focusing on defense and harnessing that would be a success for this organization moving forward. Competent D
 
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If the Rangers can land Heinen and Frederic + for Kreider (add Andersson to expand the trade) it will impact Howden's ice time but he might find a consistent running mate and improve his overall game.

Gettinger has been scoring more recently in the AHL too playing with vets, maybe a 4th line of Gettinger/Frederic/Howden could be a real pain and high energy.

Rangers need bodies for the Expansion Draft, can't have all ELCs running around.

As far as Strome and ADA I think both will be resigned. Hope they will. It's another case of substance over style or a name. Rangers have a bad history of letting productive guys go over names. McEwen in the Beck trade, Zubov, Stralman over signing Boyle or Girardi.

Strome is fine for the next three years.

I can't see Vegas trading Tuch for Skjei. Seems like a ripoff in favor of the Rangers. I know Tuch has regressed this year but Skjei has been pretty awful.

Don't trade Georgiev. I really like what I've seen from Igor but he has to work on those second and third wacks. Get stronger with guys in front of him and weird deflections that Lundqvist would eat up back in the day. Will he fatigue this early in his career?

I don't see Hajek here very long. He's been fine in my opinion but at some point they're going to want more oomph and offense from the left side. He's had three injuries in the last three years. I like him but between him/Lindgren/Rykov, only one maybe two will be here when this team is ready to contend. There's definitely a chance a Keane or TDA moves to the left (LHD not politically lol) or Lundkvist.

I laugh at people calling the three goalie rotation a tragedy, it's been one week. Teams do it fairly often short term. It's another case of "oh the Rangers always mess up blah blah New York." If the Penguins did the same thing they'd be geniuses and if the Leafs did it we'd see charts on Corsi Impact + Cohesion Correlation.
 
RGY said:
To be fair, I think Rykov and Hajek could absolutely be better than Skjei. They certainly dont need the offense that Skjei sometimes produces given what we have with ADA & Fox. Even Trouba to a degree. They just need them to play competent defense and not make braindead mistakes constantly and they’d already be an improvement. Focusing on defense and harnessing that would be a success for this organization moving forward. Competent D
Click to expand...

That's exactly it. Block shots, stay in position, get in the way of your passes, throw some hits, and challenge puck carriers. You fill those aspects of the job description, you're already better than Skjei.
 
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BOS needs to do something. Before December, they had a couple of long win streaks that are keeping them up in the standings, but since DEC, they've had a losing record. All of those OT points are masking how big of a fall they have had.

You need to do something against that if you are contending.

BOS also has a lot of cap space for next season. They can re-sign Kreider.

Heinen being included makes sense for both teams. Rangers get an NHL body they need, swiss army knife player. BOS gets the best available forward, and some more cap space to be able to re-sign him and they have the assets to replace and upgrade Heinen with Studnika.

The premium of a 1st and a prospect helps the Rangers.

In the Atlantic, you have both TOR and Tampa picking it up. Tampa is playing a different style than last year, and found 4 lines of depth. Plus Hedman's back, and Kuch is not slumping anymore. TOR has happy players who are playing happy hockey from the media narrative.

BOS is going to be a team that needs to do something.
 
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Edge said:
I don't even know where to start with this...
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you can just say you like Trouba and disagree.
It breaks down to
Pionk + Heinola > Trouba + $8M cap
ADA + Fox > Trouba + Fox + $8M cap
ADA + Fox > Trouba + ADA + $8M cap
When I say we can theoretically trade Trouba, that means "not a chance in hell it happens therefore it only exists in theory"
 
BTW I do not expect Tampa to be major buyers at the deadline, but if you are going to target a player from them, go after Matheiu Joseph. He's been replaced by Mitchell Stephens.

Tampa has a very good bottom 6 with Vergahe and Stephens. The Vergahe-Gourde-Stephens unit is a match-up nightmare for teams, as is the Killorn-Paquette-Maroon line.
 
Kovalev27 said:
Color me underwhelmed with guys like Heinen and Frederic neither are replacements for CK neither are better than Lemieux or Frankly Howden as a winger.
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In fairness, neither are supposed to replace Kreider. You don't get a young guy on the brink of replacing the role of a rental you just traded.

Whether they're better than Lemieux is also kind of irrelevant, since they won't be competing with him for a roster spot.

And assuming Chris leaves, even if we re-sign Fast and Strome- this is the forward depth next season

Panarin-Strome-Fast
Lemieux-Zibanejad-Buchnevich
Howden-Chytil-Kakko
???-???-???

We're missing a whole line.
 
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NYR Viper said:
I believe Heinen plays all 3 forward spots. And Boston May feel that since his offense hasn’t come on like they hoped, they would prefer to save some money on the cap moving forward and avoid his next RFA contract.
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And Boston is all in on a cup run. Their window is nearly closed. They can retool and be in the conversation but their best chance is sooner than later. Very similar to the runs we took in the early 2010s. Even without the chance of re-signing the acquired player, Boston won't be shy. They will pay the required price for sure. I'm just not sure that Kreider is their guy at this time.
 
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