Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXI - Let's make a deal

[JimmyG89]

We're missing a whole line.

That's fine. There is room for the team to grow and if guys like Howden and Lemieux are legit 3rd liners, we can find some depth for the bottom of the lineup.

Realistically, we need someone that could jump into that top 6 and replace Fast. Even if he stays, the need to make him more of what he is, someone that can move around the lineup and fill in gaps, is needed.

The way the cap is set up for next season, that spot will need to be filled internally, and the hope is with an offseason to improve, that player is Kakko.

 

[RGY]

Color me underwhelmed with guys like Heinen and Frederic neither are replacements for CK neither are better than Lemieux or Frankly Howden as a winger.

I have been in agreement with you on a lot of things lately but not this.

They arent intended to replace Kreider but at least add some version of north-south physical play in the case of Frederic.

Heinen is absolutely a more productive forward than both Lemmy and Howden. And we need depth.

 

[gravey9]

That's exactly it. Block shots, stay in position, get in the way of your passes, throw some hits, and challenge puck carriers. You fill those aspects of the job description, you're already better than Skjei.

What you're both describing is the theoretical player you'd want to replace Skjei. A top 4 stay at home, shut down D. Is it possible Hajek or Rykov could one day become that player? Possibly. But that doesn't describe the roles either of them have played through their careers. Or are capable of in the NHL right now. They were both more of a hybrid defender similar to Skjei -- but not as good, at least not yet.

The young player you're describing is Lindgren. And he's a bit overmatched playing as a regular #4. There is NO current internal replacement in the NHL or AHL that is ready to step in for Brady Skjei as the #1 LD. That player would need to come from outside the organization. I'm happy to challenge young players and give them a little more than they think they can handle. And that to me is what we're already doing with Ryan Lindgren. Lindgren is currently more stable than Hajek or Rykov in his own zone. I would not move Lindgren any higher than he is already. And I would not thrust Hajek or Rykov up there either. That's putting too much pressure on them. At best, it's a Neal Pionk situation all over again. So, that means your only replacement for Skjei is... Marc Staal.

I understand the desire to upgrade both the forwards and the left side of the D. I agree. I don't agree that trading Skjei is likely the best solution for the development of the other young players on the roster. Not unless you're trading him along with another piece to upgrade the position he currently fills.

 

[Edge]

Color me underwhelmed with guys like Heinen and Frederic neither are replacements for CK neither are better than Lemieux or Frankly Howden as a winger.

I don’t know if it will be those two guys, or even Boston who lands Kreider, but that’s probably a decent ballpark guess of the return value we’re looking at.

It’ll probably just depend on how one personally values the components. But I would caution most posters that a windfall is unlikely for an UFA. You’re looking at a return that is probably similar to Hayes last year.

 

[gravey9]

In fairness, neither are supposed to replace Kreider. You don't get a young guy on the brink of replacing the role of a rental you just traded.

Whether they're better than Lemieux is also kind of irrelevant, since they won't be competing with him for a roster spot.

And assuming Chris leaves, even if we re-sign Fast and Strome- this is the forward depth next season

Panarin-Strome-Fast
Lemieux-Zibanejad-Buchnevich
Howden-Chytil-Kakko
???-???-???

We're missing a whole line.

And not JUST missing a whole line. Missing a little bit of everything. Missing speed. Missing enough skill in the top six. Missing the one player that actually gives the lineup a legit second line (Kreider). This isn't me advocating to keep Kreider. But it's an acknowledgment of just how thin the lineup is.

Before the season started, it felt like we had a few too many forwards. We had Andersson, Namestnikov and many were wondering if Kravtsov would make it. We also Nieves up. Now, there's no Andersson. Names is traded. Kravtsov isn't that close to being ready.

JG has a lot of work ahead of him to fill out the forwards for next year. And we'll likely need to use Georgiev, etc to trade for a developing top 6 forward. The draft will likely need to focus on drafting forwards. if the Kreider trade happens, we either need serviceable players to come back with the 1st round pick -- a very good young NHL player coming back or a depth forward and a legit prospect in the AHL.

We may also need to trade Lias just to get another forward in.

 

[NYRangers0723]

We aren’t gonna replace Kreider with whatever return we get in a trade. That’s why I’m so reluctant to do it but our bad cap situation I guess leaves us no choice

 

[Blue Blooded]

We're probably going to have to force Kravtsov into the lineup the way next year the way we're doing with Kakko this year, which will likely be fine as long as Kakko progresses.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

What you're both describing is the theoretical player you'd want to replace Skjei. A top 4 stay at home, shut down D. Is it possible Hajek or Rykov could one day become that player? Possibly. But that doesn't describe the roles either of them have played through their careers. Or are capable of in the NHL right now. They were both more of a hybrid defender similar to Skjei -- but not as good, at least not yet.

The young player you're describing is Lindgren. And he's a bit overmatched playing as a regular #4. There is NO current internal replacement in the NHL or AHL that is ready to step in for Brady Skjei as the #1 LD. That player would need to come from outside the organization. I'm happy to challenge young players and give them a little more than they think they can handle. And that to me is what we're already doing with Ryan Lindgren. Lindgren is currently more stable than Hajek or Rykov in his own zone. I would not move Lindgren any higher than he is already. And I would not thrust Hajek or Rykov up there either. That's putting too much pressure on them. At best, it's a Neal Pionk situation all over again. So, that means your only replacement for Skjei is... Marc Staal.

I understand the desire to upgrade both the forwards and the left side of the D. I agree. I don't agree that trading Skjei is likely the best solution for the development of the other young players on the roster. Not unless you're trading him along with another piece to upgrade the position he currently fills.

Brendan Smith?

 

[egelband]

I was thinking the same on Trouba. Size, strength, orneriness and he's a very good and talented player too. Because of all those things he plays all situations and gets more ice time than any of our other D. He is the most valuable D on the team---he is the go to guy that allows others to do what they do best.

The other thing is in his coming here and the fact that's he's lived up to his expectations---something that a Shattenkirk didn't do. He had his reasons for wanting to be a Ranger and he committed to this team---you don't throw that away after half a season. Players around the league might look at that and think the Rangers aren't very loyal.

Tony is not an all situations D but he is having a fantastic year. I'd be pretty hesitant to move him. I also don't think we're moving Fox.

Absolutely. There is *no chance* the Rangers trade Trouba unless he pulls a “Lias”. Which he won’t. I am surprised people are even discussing it. I really don’t think they move any of the RDs. I suppose they would consider move ADA if someone made a Godfather offer.

 

[Avery16]

Libor in for Staal

 

[Shesterkybomb]

We're probably going to have to force Kravtsov into the lineup the way next year the way we're doing with Kakko this year, which will likely be fine as long as Kakko progresses.

Kravtsov will be on the roster after the trade deadline imo. It's actually my preferred route for rookies. Play them in the minors for most of the year, give them a taste to get acclimated to the nhl at the end and have them ready the following year, Kakko should have done that as well.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

A replacement for Kreider isn’t coming at the deadline

It is what it is. That contract is too much of a risk

 

[NYR Viper]

Deadline trades are about acquiring assets. Assets can be used on the team or for other deals in the future. Not every player this team acquires will be a long term piece for the Rangers. However it gives Gorton options should other players become available. Young, inexpensive options are valuable to many teams

 

[NYR]

I don’t if it will be those two guys, or even Boston who lands Kreider, but that’s probably a decent ballpark guess of the return value we’re looking at.

It’ll probably just depend on how one personally values the components. But I would caution most posters that a windfall is unlikely for an UFA. You’re looking at a return that is probably similar to Hayes last year.

If you can't get kids with some upside then what's the point of going through this for the third year in a row?
Stock piling 3rd/ 4th liners yet still no semblance of a 4th line to be had.

Still not getting it...

 

[DanielBrassard]

Deadline trades are about acquiring assets. Assets can be used on the team or for other deals in the future. Not every player this team acquires will be a long term piece for the Rangers. However it gives Gorton options should other players become available. Young, inexpensive options are valuable to many teams

This is true.

We could use the assets we get for Kreider and trade them for a guy like Rakell or whatever. Or maybe an asset from a Kreider trade plus Geo/surplus of LHD.

 

[Leetch3]

you can just say you like Trouba and disagree.
It breaks down to
Pionk + Heinola > Trouba + $8M cap
ADA + Fox > Trouba + Fox + $8M cap
ADA + Fox > Trouba + ADA + $8M cap
When I say we can theoretically trade Trouba, that means "not a chance in hell it happens therefore it only exists in theory"

Just cause you typed them that doesn’t make any of those breakdowns true

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

That's one option, and a decent one at that. Trade Trouba and his contract and use the savings to re-sign TDA and Strome. Trade Kreider and Fast for futures.

 

[NYR Viper]

If you can't get kids with some upside then what's the point of going through this for the third year in a row?
Stock piling 3rd/ 4th liners yet still no semblance of a 4th line to be had.

Still not getting it...

Yoy realize you can get kids with upside who may or may not be better than 4th liners right now right? Young players may need development time.

Also, part of the reason the team made the decision to rebuild is because their system was absolutely barren. We’re seeing some of the repercussions of that dearth if young talent for a few years. Imagine what it would be like if they hadn’t made a few sell-offs. Hajek. Fox. Lindgren. ADA. Trouba. Lemieux. Howden. Even Zibanejad.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Huh? Do you have any evidence of this?

Dan Girardi played through injuries because Dan Girardi wanted to play. Nobody "made" him play through anything.

look at every break up day we find out players are playing with multiple injuries. Zuccarello is another good example.

 

[NYR]

Yoy realize you can get kids with upside who may or may not be better than 4th liners right now right? Young players may need development time.

Also, part of the reason the team made the decision to rebuild is because their system was absolutely barren. We’re seeing some of the repercussions of that dearth if young talent for a few years. Imagine what it would be like if they hadn’t made a few sell-offs. Hajek. Fox. Lindgren. ADA. Trouba. Lemieux. Howden. Even Zibanejad.

I'm all about the rough stuff but wtf is Trent Federic gonna bring to this team?

At some point you have to start filling in the holes with competent players, no?

Teams are much more balanced these days.
You have to roll out 4 lines that can all contribute and I still see no signs of that happening anytime soon.

Patiently waiting..

 

[kovazub94]

What you're both describing is the theoretical player you'd want to replace Skjei. A top 4 stay at home, shut down D. Is it possible Hajek or Rykov could one day become that player? Possibly. But that doesn't describe the roles either of them have played through their careers. Or are capable of in the NHL right now. They were both more of a hybrid defender similar to Skjei -- but not as good, at least not yet.

The young player you're describing is Lindgren. And he's a bit overmatched playing as a regular #4. There is NO current internal replacement in the NHL or AHL that is ready to step in for Brady Skjei as the #1 LD. That player would need to come from outside the organization. I'm happy to challenge young players and give them a little more than they think they can handle. And that to me is what we're already doing with Ryan Lindgren. Lindgren is currently more stable than Hajek or Rykov in his own zone. I would not move Lindgren any higher than he is already. And I would not thrust Hajek or Rykov up there either. That's putting too much pressure on them. At best, it's a Neal Pionk situation all over again. So, that means your only replacement for Skjei is... Marc Staal.

I understand the desire to upgrade both the forwards and the left side of the D. I agree. I don't agree that trading Skjei is likely the best solution for the development of the other young players on the roster. Not unless you're trading him along with another piece to upgrade the position he currently fills.

Your bolded text is exactly the problem. Skjei is not 1LD but he’s forced to be slotted there. That’s why we’re having discussions about moving ADA there or trading for an upgrade. On the other hand the Rangers have cheap(er) options ready or near ready to replace Skjei at 2LD.

 

[Minmonster]

If you can't get kids with some upside then what's the point of going through this for the third year in a row?
Stock piling 3rd/ 4th liners yet still no semblance of a 4th line to be had.

Still not getting it...

100% agree. Upside is the key. The 4th line is the immediate issue but no where close to being a priority during a rebuild. Amass high end talent and the rest will figure itself out

 

[QJL]

Your bolded text is exactly the problem. Skjei is not 1LD but he’s forced to be slotted there. That’s why we’re having discussions about moving ADA there or trading for an upgrade. On the other hand the Rangers have cheap(er) options ready or near ready to replace Skjei at 2LD.

I agree that moving Skjei isn’t an option right now. Maybe next year if LHD start to step up. Any of the forwards are more likely to move.

If we want to keep Tony and Strome, I’m thinking Fast and his likely $3m will be the odd man out.

In other news, Friedman reporting the Rangers are actively listening on Georgiev and looking for a top forward.

My deadline predictions:

NYR: Kreider
COL: 2020 1st, Beaucage, conditional 3rd if he re-signs

NYR: Georgiev, Fast
CAR: Rees, Luostarainen

 

[NYR Viper]

I'm all about the rough stuff but wtf is Trent Federic gonna bring to this team?

At some point you have to start filling in the holes with competent players, no?

Teams are much more balanced these days.
You have to roll out 4 lines that can all contribute and I still see no signs of that happening anytime soon.

Patiently waiting..

We all want to see the young guys play but don’t seem to want to watch them grow. If Andersson had take a step and Lemieux wasn’t hurt the team would be deeper. And if Gorton had signed a couple of UFA’s and pushed Andersson and say Howden down to the AHL people would be complaining about Gorton blocking the young players.

This isn’t a finished product.

Also Frederic plays a style of game, like Lemieux, that is becoming more and more rare in today’s NHL. He’s a throwback power forward. He may never score more than 35 points in the NHL but he’s versatile in that he can play wing or center and he can add some physical presence while also providing some offense.

If you’re looking for a Kreider replacement in return for Kreider as a rental you’re going to be disappointed. These secondary pieces may not be ‘sexy’ but if Gorton continues with the process this team will eventually have more than a few young, inexpensive NHL pieces that can be moved in a package for another difference maker should one become available. They already made a deal like this with Trouba.

 

[NYR Viper]

100% agree. Upside is the key. The 4th line is the immediate issue but no where close to being a priority during a rebuild. Amass high end talent and the rest will figure itself out

You’re not going to get a high end prospect for a rental. And if you do, there’s going to be plenty of other red flags.