Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX

[duhmetreE]

Why couldn’t Strine play RW on a line with Panarib moving forward if they want to get someone like Chytil more minutes

Why not move Chytil to RW?

Strome is obviously the better Center at this point. Let Chytil 'loosen' up and play to his talents

 

[SA16]

Yeah that really wound up biting them in the ass.

It is pretty hard to have two all time greats in their prime on a team and ruin the entire team no matter what you do as a GM.

 

[Bring Back Avery]

When is the new television deal supposed to happen? Isn't it widely believed that it will cause the salary cap to increase dramatically?

 

[SA16]

Results of forwards who have played 300+ mins with crosby from:

2017 to 2020
1. Guenzel: 2010 mins 2.48 pts/60
2. Rust 920 mins 1.83 pts/60
3. Simon 719 mins 2.84 pts/60
4. Sheary 516 mins 1.98 pts/60
5. Hornqvist 506 mins 1.78 pts/60

2014-2017
1. Kunitz 1540 mins 2.61 pts/60
2. Hornqvistt 1506 mins 2.99 pts/60
3. Sheary 763 mins 3.06 pts/60
4. Perron 573 mins 2.3 pts/60
5. Rust 370 mins 2.92 pts/60
6. Guentzel 308 mins 2.92 pts/60

2011-2014 (prime crosby years with all the injuries in there)
1. Kunitz 1588 mins 3.51 pts/60
2. Dupuis 950 mins 3.89 pts/60
3. Neal 247 mins 3.88 pts/60
4. Stempniak 18 mins 3.32 pts/60 (added these two because only two guys got significant mins)

2008-2011
1. Dupuis 1123 mins 3.15 pts/60
2. Kunitz 1041 mins 3.05 pts/60
3. Guerin 783 mins 3.06 pts/60
4. Malkin 680 mins 4.41 pts/60
5. Fedotenko 349 mins 3.09 pts/60
6. Satan 347 mins 2.59 pts/60
7. Talbot 293 mins 3.28 pts/60 (just missed the cutoff)

Every single player produced. Scoring rates are a bit lower recently since he's not as strong offensively as he was back then but still. Every single guy is putting up huge numbers there. Just because one random fill in goes there and plays well does not mean you should pay him to keep doing so. You can just get te next random guy who will likely do the same and then spend the money on defense or other spots.

*Panarin is obviously not Sid
**Too many numbers, nobody will read this
***Yes, they won anyway despite paying his wings.
****Guentzel is an exception given he was young and may not have been a Crosby product considering he destroyed the AHL before coming up.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Scandella to the Habs for a 4th.

LeBrun saying likely Sabres will quickly turn around to acquire a forward.



Edit: They traded the pick they got from Montreal to Calgary for Frolik.

 

[Trxjw]

It is pretty hard to have two all time greats in their prime on a team and ruin the entire team no matter what you do as a GM.

I think Kunitz is a great example of identifying the right kind of player and committing to him in a reasonable manner, but to each their own.

 

[Vitto79]

Namestnikov for a 4th sure set the market I see

 

[Alluckks]

Was listening to the radio on the way home and they were talking Kreider to Pittsburgh. Josh Yohe was on (sort of a poor-man's Brooks here in Pittsburgh) and noted that the Pens really like Kreider. Also said Rutherford isn't a fan of surrendering prospects in trades and would rather move picks. Can't really see that being the best option on the table for Gorton when all is said and done.

If you really like a player then you have to actually prove it and pay the price tag

Otherwise it is all just hogwash

"I love this suit, but not for that price!" Okay, then leave the store?

 

[aufheben]

To me, a major benefit of having a Panarin is that you don’t have to [over]pay for depth players. If you asked me to name the top-6 wingers on Pittsburgh’s last three championship teams, I’d probably be able to name 2 or 3 out of the 12.

A middle-6 forward who doesn’t drive a line and is having a career-year is pretty much the exact kind of player you’re not supposed to pay up for lol.

Panarin & Strome have a 65.85 GF%. Panarin w/o Strome has a 72.00 GF%. Strome w/o Panarin has a 46.15 GF%.

You’re also paying Strome’s trade return, which at this point is nothing to sneeze at. The thing that concerns me is the optics of trading a player who came in and exceeded expectations.

 

[JimmyG89]

Couldn't see the Sabres going in on Kreider and I can't see the Rangers trading him yet.

They want to compete and show growth. Kreider isn't taking a spot from someone yet. Nobody on the 3rd line is pushing for top 6 minutes. Lemieux is hurt, Kravtsov is still getting back into things in Hartford, so they can delay this as long as they want.

We're still rolling Fast in the top 6. We have a spot waiting if someone wants to grab it.

 

[usekakkorightquinn]

Get rid of Buchnevich quick while he still has good value. He's a mental midget. He's a head case. Dump him now. Sign Kreider. At least you know what you get with him. One of the best net front guys in the league who will play 50% of his games where you want to strangle him but is a force the other half. Plus he's really good defensively.

 

[duhmetreE]

To me, a major benefit of having a Panarin is that you don’t have to [over]pay for depth players. If you asked me to name the top-6 wingers on Pittsburgh’s last three championship teams, I’d probably be able to name 2 or 3 out of the 12.

A middle-6 forward who doesn’t drive a line and is having a career-year is pretty much the exact kind of player you’re not supposed to pay up for lol.

Panarin & Strome have a 65.85 GF%. Panarin w/o Strome has a 72.00 GF%. Strome w/o Panarin has a 46.15 GF%.

You’re also paying Strome’s trade return, which at this point is nothing to sneeze at. The thing that concerns me is the optics of trading a player who came in and exceeded expectations.

what?

lines are getting blurred now. Strome getting $5M is not overpaying. It's 6ish%. Bozak got $5M, STL was wrong?

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Eh, he's a not a five-tool player, but when you start to have a check list that includes big, fast, strong, good hands and with the ability to deflect, you're going to get some expectations with that.

Forget for a second we're talking about Kreider.

If we had a 20 year old kid in the system with those attributes, most people are probably setting reasonably high expectations. Now we can debate whether those expectations are too high, but I don't think you'd see a lot of people pegging him as a middle or bottom six support player either.

Sure (and I know you agree with this), and if Kreids was 22 and an RFA, I’d be thrilled to lock him up for 5-7 years at $5-6MM. The issue is that he’ll be 29 as of his next contract and it’ll extend into his year 36 season, at potentially north of $7MM.

 

[bobbop]

Strome at $5MM X 3 is palatable. Remember, there is an expansion draft in one year.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think Kunitz is a great example of identifying the right kind of player and committing to him in a reasonable manner, but to each their own.

I think Kuntiz is the prime example of a pretty good player who made a great one even better. This doesn't always happen (See: Gomez/Drury and Jagr, a shit load of guys with Malkin, almost everyone with here Gaborik, etc.)

There is value in that alone and its something that should be taken into consideration when discussing Strome and even a guy like Henriksson, though in a completely different context.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

1-2 years I wouldn't have an issue with, it gives Chytil insulation in case he's not ready to play 2C minutes

Potentially yes

Although personally I think Chytil is a center going forward, not a wing. But the option is there

Right, and if you can sign Strome to 3-4 years at a reasonable AAV, when Chytil gets there (which I agree he will), you will have no trouble dealing Ryan.

Planning for a fixed future based on the current options — both on and off the team — is taking a limited view. The best GMs proceed with a flexible approach.

 

[aufheben]

Give Chytil some real linemates first and we’ll see how insulated he needs to be.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Right, and if you can sign Strome to 3-4 years at a reasonable AAV, when Chytil gets there (which I agree he will), you will have no trouble dealing Ryan.

Planning for a fixed future based on the current options — both on and off the team — is taking a limited view. The best GMs proceed with a flexible approach.

I don't see the issue with having 3 productive centers.

I mean that should be the goal.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I don't see the issue with having 3 productive centers.

I mean that should be the goal.

I’m not disagreeing.

 

[duhmetreE]

I don't see the issue with having 3 productive centers.

I mean that should be the goal.

If you look at cup winners... They are always strong down the middle. We have struggled to find/keep centers over the past couple decades... but we're so fast to offload them...

I'd keep Zibs and Strome... while letting Chytil and Howden develop.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Get rid of Buchnevich quick while he still has good value. He's a mental midget. He's a head case. Dump him now. Sign Kreider. At least you know what you get with him. One of the best net front guys in the league who will play 50% of his games where you want to strangle him but is a force the other half. Plus he's really good defensively.

Was totally expecting you to call him a lazy Russian Dog.

I’m disappointed.

 

[Edge]

Sure (and I know you agree with this), and if Kreids was 22 and an RFA, I’d be thrilled to lock him up for 5-7 years at $5-6MM. The issue is that he’ll be 29 as of his next contract and it’ll extend into his year 36 season, at potentially north of $7MM.

And that’s really what a big part of the decision comes down to.

This is one of those times where the salary cap hurts, because there’s definitely a spot and a role for Kreider on this team.

 

[Alluckks]

_____ Zib Kakko
Panarin Strome _____
_____ Chytil ____
Lemieux Howden Fast

If we're talking about getting a forward group that can not only make the playoffs but also compete, then those are the holes that I see. Kreider gone, and get Buchnevich out, he doesn't fit or bring enough for what he will be costing soon.

 

[Ola]

Results of forwards who have played 300+ mins with crosby from:

2017 to 2020
1. Guenzel: 2010 mins 2.48 pts/60
2. Rust 920 mins 1.83 pts/60
3. Simon 719 mins 2.84 pts/60
4. Sheary 516 mins 1.98 pts/60
5. Hornqvist 506 mins 1.78 pts/60

2014-2017
1. Kunitz 1540 mins 2.61 pts/60
2. Hornqvistt 1506 mins 2.99 pts/60
3. Sheary 763 mins 3.06 pts/60
4. Perron 573 mins 2.3 pts/60
5. Rust 370 mins 2.92 pts/60
6. Guentzel 308 mins 2.92 pts/60

2011-2014 (prime crosby years with all the injuries in there)
1. Kunitz 1588 mins 3.51 pts/60
2. Dupuis 950 mins 3.89 pts/60
3. Neal 247 mins 3.88 pts/60
4. Stempniak 18 mins 3.32 pts/60 (added these two because only two guys got significant mins)

2008-2011
1. Dupuis 1123 mins 3.15 pts/60
2. Kunitz 1041 mins 3.05 pts/60
3. Guerin 783 mins 3.06 pts/60
4. Malkin 680 mins 4.41 pts/60
5. Fedotenko 349 mins 3.09 pts/60
6. Satan 347 mins 2.59 pts/60
7. Talbot 293 mins 3.28 pts/60 (just missed the cutoff)

Every single player produced. Scoring rates are a bit lower recently since he's not as strong offensively as he was back then but still. Every single guy is putting up huge numbers there. Just because one random fill in goes there and plays well does not mean you should pay him to keep doing so. You can just get te next random guy who will likely do the same and then spend the money on defense or other spots.

*Panarin is obviously not Sid
**Too many numbers, nobody will read this
***Yes, they won anyway despite paying his wings.
****Guentzel is an exception given he was young and may not have been a Crosby product considering he destroyed the AHL before coming up.

Great stuff!

 

[Ola]

Back on topic, I am squarely in the camp of re-sign Ryan Strome for something reasonable. I think that when you have a pairing of players who obviously feed off each other and are comfortable you attempt to keep them together. If Strome would accept a 4 year deal for around $4.5m-$5m per season I think that would be a win for both sides. Strome gets some certainty for the foreseeable future playing with an elite player. He becomes a UFA again at 30 years old when he should be able to get another good contract as well. The Rangers lock up someone who obviously has found very good chemistry with their elite winger for a reasonable cap hit. He can play wing or center as needed so it provides some roster flexibility as well as being 26 years old so they are signing him for what should be his prime years.

Also, yes Panarin is inflating Strome's point totals but lets also understand that Panarin is on pace to absolutely obliterate his single season goal totals playing primarily with Strome in some fashion at 5v5. He's on pace for 46 goals whereas his career high in the past has been 31. The chemistry just seems to be there between the two guys and that's not that easy to find.

I agree for sure. Far from Strome’s biggest fan, but he is just playing so much better. A real breakout.

But, he Strome really taking like the same deal as Benny Pouliot took from EDM in 2014? I am just afraid of his price tag being close to 8m per than 5m...