Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

My concern with Kreider is that for a guy who relies almost solely on his physical attributes, I am doubtful he ages gracefully. This isn't a guy who can still pass the puck or shoot the puck on the PP as his legs start to slow down a bit. If he isn't getting in on the forecheck, causing turnovers ad out-muscling the opposition his point totals will drop quickly. If he were 27 and looking for a 6 year deal, I'd be more open to it knowing that at 32-33 he will most likely be slowing down. A deal starting ta 29 taking him to 35 is just too much risk and downward projection for a team not looking to truly compete yet.

And before someone throws out Panarin, there is a HUGE difference between what Panarin can do if he slows down a little bit physically as opposed to what Kreider could do.

Good points. My biggest issue with Kreider is he doesn't use these physical gifts consistently enough. People think that's going to improve as he ages with a ton of money in his pocket? Yeah right.

 

[Machinehead]

I'm kind of in the same boat as you. I think he has enough tools that it gives the illusion that there should be more there, but the handful of tools he's missing are essential tools.

We get caught up in the athleticism, but he doesn't have a single skill involving his stick that's above average.

I fear that Miller will fall into the same criticism, although I've heard he's a good passer and defensemen can go further on their bodies alone because we don't attach arbitrary point standards to them.

 

[duhmetreE]

I’m pretty sure it became a dick swinging contest between slats and jagr that screwed this up. We had a player option or something weird the isn’t allowed now if I recall

Slats was reading HF then... He was convinced Jagr was a baked potato at 35

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

We get caught up in the athleticism, but he doesn't have a single skill involving his stick that's above average.

I fear that Miller will fall into the same criticism, although I've heard he's a good passer and defensemen can go further on their bodies alone because we don't attach arbitrary point standards to them.

I think his shot is. He can rip it pretty well.

Miller's greatest strength is erasing rushes before they have a chance to turn into something more. That in its own is an incredibly valuable skill.

 

[Machinehead]

Slats was reading HF then... He was convinced Jagr was a baked potato at 35

Slats was a baked potato at age 35

 

[Machinehead]

I think his shot is. He can rip it pretty well.

Miller's greatest strength is erasing rushes before they have a chance to turn into something more. That in its own is an incredibly valuable skill.

Yeah until he gets here and we teach him to do the Michael Jackson moonwalk into his own zone.

 

[True Blue]

I don't think the NHL GMs are largely dumb- they probably recognize that he has been a decent player whose numbers are buoyed by playing with a star. Question is- as with Nylander and the Capitals- if they think they can translate that into his playing with THEIR star.

Take a look at Strome's assist numbers. Are we going to hold it against him that Panarin is putting them in the net? I do not recall anyone looking at that way at Adam Oates.

Not everyone can just slide onto a star's line and connect. Frankly if Panarin's biggest asset is that he is allowing ZBad and Panarin to play on two separate lines, that makes him a pretty valuable commodity for THIS team.

 

[True Blue]

A 50 point player?

If I’m spending 7m a year on a player. He better have more potential than 50 points..

What do you believe top line players should make?

 

[duhmetreE]

I really wish we'd talk percentages when discussing cap hits.

 

[Edge]

We get caught up in the athleticism, but he doesn't have a single skill involving his stick that's above average.

I fear that Miller will fall into the same criticism, although I've heard he's a good passer and defensemen can go further on their bodies alone because we don't attach arbitrary point standards to them.

I also agree on the Miller projection and the similarities there.

I could see a scenario where Miller becomes a first line player, but people are wanting him to be more than "just" a first line player. They'll wonder why he isn't one of the top players at his position, or find themselves frustrated with him not taking over the bulk of the games he plays in.

I think there may also be some lag time between Miller projecting as a first line player, and him really hitting his stride as one. We could be looking at a scenario where he takes that next step at 25/26, not unlike Kreider.

 

[duhmetreE]

Take a look at Strome's assist numbers. Are we going to hold it against him that Panarin is putting them in the net? I do not recall anyone looking at that way at Adam Oates.

Not everyone can just slide onto a star's line and connect. Frankly if Panarin's biggest asset is that he is allowing ZBad and Panarin to play on two separate lines, that makes him a pretty valuable commodity for THIS team.

It's funny how Zibs is loved but Strome is hated here. It might be the hair

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

It's funny how Zibs is loved but Strome is hated here. It might be the hair

I'm not sure if anyone "hates" Strome, but it's certainly valid to react with trepidation when a center who spent years not being able to put it together now does so (for only half a season at this point) playing primarily with one of the most electrifying offensive players in the league.

 

[SA16]

Kreider's "tools" are not nearly as good as they are made out to be. He's big, fast, and good at deflecting pucks.

 

[Yuck]

I'm a big Kreider fan, probably my favorite player but its not logical to lock him up based on our current cap, roster and timeline to contention. I hope he makes bank with some 6-7/year deal for someone else -- I'll keep rooting for him. That said, I'm really looking forward to the Kreider return -- I think he is such a tantalizing player for teams that I can actually see a pretty decent bidding war for his services -- I'm hoping someone bites with a prospect/young player that is a level higher than what we have been acquiring for rentals -- even if a first doesn't come back this time. If its a Zucc type return I'm going to be really disappointed (and I know I should probably be prepared for that).

 

[Tawnos]

I really wish we'd talk percentages when discussing cap hits.

While I do too, I don't think people have a good handle on that either.

Like, if I said this guy is an 8% player, how many people would have any sense of what that meant without looking it up?

 

[Trxjw]

Meh. I've always considered Kreider to have an above average shot and release. His accuracy is below average though and he lacks the hockey sense to be able to find open ice in order to use it.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Kreider's "tools" are not nearly as good as they are made out to be. He's big, fast, and good at deflecting pucks.

Totally agree and always say this. He has average puck handling skills and average passing ability. He has a slightly above average shot. He doesn’t really have the skillset to be a 70+ point guy. What he is is a 50-55 point guy who gets the puck moving in the right direction, and that’s ok.

 

[Edge]

Kreider's "tools" are not nearly as good as they are made out to be. He's big, fast, and good at deflecting pucks.

Eh, he's a not a five-tool player, but when you start to have a check list that includes big, fast, strong, good hands and with the ability to deflect, you're going to get some expectations with that.

Forget for a second we're talking about Kreider.

If we had a 20 year old kid in the system with those attributes, most people are probably setting reasonably high expectations. Now we can debate whether those expectations are too high, but I don't think you'd see a lot of people pegging him as a middle or bottom six support player either.

 

[NYR Viper]

While I do too, I don't think people have a good handle on that either.

Like, if I said this guy is an 8% player, how many people would have any sense of what that meant without looking it up?

That's like a $22.387m per year player though. Totally unreasonable percentage

 

[Tawnos]

That's like a $22.387m per year player though. Totally unreasonable percentage

What?

 

[NYR Viper]

What?

'Twas a joke

 

[Tawnos]

'Twas a joke

Ha... I guess.

 

[True Blue]

I'm not sure if anyone "hates" Strome, but it's certainly valid to react with trepidation when a center who spent years not being able to put it together now does so (for only half a season at this point) playing primarily with one of the most electrifying offensive players in the league.

He was playing this way last year as well.

 

[Edge]

Gonna start getting into some Steiner Math around here.

 

[NYR Viper]

Ha... I guess.

Oh jeez, I was making a joke about how people have issues with simple math. C'mon!