Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX

[NYR Viper]

My concern with Kreider is that for a guy who relies almost solely on his physical attributes, I am doubtful he ages gracefully. This isn't a guy who can still pass the puck or shoot the puck on the PP as his legs start to slow down a bit. If he isn't getting in on the forecheck, causing turnovers ad out-muscling the opposition his point totals will drop quickly. If he were 27 and looking for a 6 year deal, I'd be more open to it knowing that at 32-33 he will most likely be slowing down. A deal starting ta 29 taking him to 35 is just too much risk and downward projection for a team not looking to truly compete yet.

And before someone throws out Panarin, there is a HUGE difference between what Panarin can do if he slows down a little bit physically as opposed to what Kreider could do.

 

[NYR Viper]

The short explanation is that I don't want to get stuck being unable to re-sign Zibanejad or be forced to choose between long term extensions for Fox and Kakko in 3 years because we spent too much money on 2nd line players like Strome and Kreider.

Offensive depth is good but we have to develop it and strategically fill out those spots once the top end of the lineup is taken care of.

I'm more interested in Strome based on his age and expected contract length/cap hit though. 4 years for Strome who is 27 at the start of next year makes me more comfortable tan 6 years for Kreider starting at 29. Then also we must figure the difference in cap hits should be ~$1.5-2m per season

 

[Fitzy]

I'm more interested in Strome based on his age and expected contract length/cap hit though. 4 years for Strome who is 27 at the start of next year makes me more comfortable tan 6 years for Kreider starting at 29. Then also we must figure the difference in cap hits should be ~$1.5-2m per season

Depends on the league's perception of Strome, I think, which will be hard to tell until he is able to freely discuss contracts with other franchises.

I don't think the NHL GMs are largely dumb- they probably recognize that he has been a decent player whose numbers are buoyed by playing with a star. Question is- as with Nylander and the Capitals- if they think they can translate that into his playing with THEIR star.

 

[Kovalev27]

Funny...I remember similar arguments when JJ's departure was imminent....we survived.

Letting jagr leave when we did to go to the K was the dumbest thing ever. Could have played 3 or 4 more years easily with us and continue to score. Wasted years of his career. But even saying that jagr was falling he had 123 pts then 90 something then 70 or so with us his last year and far older.

Kreider is 28 and imo getting better. I think contract is weighing on him but since he’s back with Mika he’s flying

 

[NYSPORTS]

Using my words? Oh you mean the line under my Username, again which was made several years ago.... hey why bother reading my posts on the Kreider situation as I have suggested, it would only make you look like the fool you are around here.

Oh and I will continue to enjoy watching Kreider. I am not some emotionless robot who needs to monetize everything when it comes to following a sports team. Sure he may have to be traded, but doesn’t mean myself and others shouldn’t like the player. #Clown

why does a timeline make a difference? If you don’t want to take ownership of your words you might consider changing them. After all, I mentioned “some fans can’t emotionally part ways with some players” and you responded with bookmarking this gem. BTW and speaking of facts, none of my words mentioned how you can’t like the player. I like him too but I’m not tying up dollars in an aging vet like him. You can bookmark it.

 

[NYSPORTS]

I tend to think of it in terms of timelines of their most important players and prospects, like Panarin is 9-10 years old than Kakko, can there be a timeline when both are in the prime? And how long is that overlap likely to last for?

Rangers at this point, do they try to bolster the Panarin/Zbad age range with players like Kreider on expensive deals, or do they bolster the Kakko age range by using the trade return of players like Kreider, even if it's two or three separate steps?

It's difficult to do both and once they set their sights one way or the other, the side they do not pick is going to be weakened one way or another.

I mean I guess they could try to do both, trade Kreider for futures or youth of some type, even if a two or three step process, then go bargain UFA shopping for the Panarin like age range and hope to get a Prospal or Grabner or something to that effect.

Great post.

IMO, with so many kids you go young. That would be the opposite if the Rangers didn’t have so many prospects. Then it would be a go all in for Hank today and each of the next 3 years with Mika, Panerin.

Not now though, I’m adding to the youth.

 

[charliemurphy]

Letting jagr leave when we did to go to the K was the dumbest thing ever. Could have played 3 or 4 more years easily with us and continue to score. Wasted years of his career. But even saying that jagr was falling he had 123 pts then 90 something then 70 or so with us his last year and far older.

Kreider is 28 and imo getting better. I think contract is weighing on him but since he’s back with Mika he’s flying

Do you remember what the salary cap was back then? How much did Jagr get in the KHL? Guessing there was correlation between the two. Loved Jagr.
Nope, I have to disagree about Kreider getting better. This is it... what we've been seeing the past 3-4 seasons has pretty much cemented his ceiling on this team.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

Letting jagr leave when we did to go to the K was the dumbest thing ever. Could have played 3 or 4 more years easily with us and continue to score. Wasted years of his career. But even saying that jagr was falling he had 123 pts then 90 something then 70 or so with us his last year and far older.

Kreider is 28 and imo getting better. I think contract is weighing on him but since he’s back with Mika he’s flying

I disagree...keeping him would have set this organization back years.

 

[NYR Viper]

Depends on the league's perception of Strome, I think, which will be hard to tell until he is able to freely discuss contracts with other franchises.

I don't think the NHL GMs are largely dumb- they probably recognize that he has been a decent player whose numbers are buoyed by playing with a star. Question is- as with Nylander and the Capitals- if they think they can translate that into his playing with THEIR star.

This is true but he is a RFA at years end, not UFA

 

[SA16]

We trade Kreider we’ll be looking for a Kreider for the next decade while the guy will still be bull rushing the league the next 5 years at least. Some of you are already looking to trade for a potential Kreider when you already have him. Amazing.

We keep Kreider and we'll be looking for a Kreider for the next decade when Kreider isn't previous Kreider.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

I was referring to another gear on an overall level. Yes, he has those tools that make you think he should/could be one of those elite players, but for whatever reason he just hasn't been able to put it all together on a game to game basis. He is what he is at this point, which is a consistent low-mid 50s point player.

And he has shown at times that he can take his game to another level....that's why there's such a "divide" among the fans about keeping him. As you said, he is what he is...and at this stage, it's not a smart move to resign him to big money and long term.

 

[NYR Viper]

Letting jagr leave when we did to go to the K was the dumbest thing ever. Could have played 3 or 4 more years easily with us and continue to score. Wasted years of his career. But even saying that jagr was falling he had 123 pts then 90 something then 70 or so with us his last year and far older.

Kreider is 28 and imo getting better. I think contract is weighing on him but since he’s back with Mika he’s flying

That last year he played with the Rangers he was playing mainly with a rookie in Dubinsky as his center as Gomez and Drury couldn't figure out a way to play with him. That 70 points was quite the accomplishment. He was slowing down A LITTLE BIT but not to the effect that his numbers dictated.

 

[NYR Viper]

Do you remember what the salary cap was back then? How much did Jagr get in the KHL? Guessing there was correlation between the two. Loved Jagr.
Nope, I have to disagree about Kreider getting better. This is it... what we've been seeing the past 3-4 seasons has pretty much cemented his ceiling on this team.

The Rangers didn't want to give him a longer deal and they had just given Drury and Gomez blank checks. From my recollection, they didn't offer anything close to market value

 

[wafflepadsave]

I’m tagging on with what @Edge said . It’s the huge void or deviation of his peaks and valleys. If someone could get into his head and teach him when and how to use his abilities with efficiency, you would really have a player to reckon with.
If there was a way to pay him according to his involvement, he would straighten up darn quick. We are certainly going to miss him dearly when he’s on and engaged! Needing the cap space is just as important so here’s to hoping he gets hot till trade deadline.

 

[mulli25]

The hot conversation of the moment is Kreider, obviously, but this has been a recurring theme.

If/when the Rangers make it to the point of being perennial cup contenders, the contracts of Kreider/Hayes/Zucc will all be burdens on their respective teams.

If the rangers never get to that point it's sure as shit not going to be because they let those guys go.

 

[Cag29]

Based on the teams rumored to be interested, and the way the deadline landscape is shaping up, I'd be asking for a 1st, prospect, and a young reclamation project for Kreider. Seems like Colorado, Pittsburgh, and Boston all have those pieces potentially available.

How about that big center from Boston Beecher?

Based on the teams rumored to be interested, and the way the deadline landscape is shaping up, I'd be asking for a 1st, prospect, and a young reclamation project for Kreider. Seems like Colorado, Pittsburgh, and Boston all have those pieces potentially available.

 

[Heckler81]

We keep Kreider and we'll be looking for a Kreider for the next decade when Kreider isn't previous Kreider.

A 50 point player?

If I’m spending 7m a year on a player. He better have more potential than 50 points.

we currently have Panarin, Kakko, Buchnevich, Chytil, Kravtsov to play on the Wing. What we lack is a #2 Centerman, I don’t think Chytil, Andersson, Howden, Strome as viable options. I see Chytil on the wing and the rest of the guys are 3rd line players.

I rather trade Kreider and Strome for prospects and picks. That frees up about 8m.

I would use Chytil in Kreider spot, Howden/Andersson as 3rd line C.

I would go after a really good #2 C by trade or UFA and offer him 8-9m a year.

 

[wafflepadsave]

How about that big center from Boston Beecher?

Tried to watch him at world juniors haven’t seen him drive play much yet. Although I haven’t seen all the games either.

 

[Cag29]

Kreider, not unlike Zucc before him, is somewhat easy to predict the final outcome. It's difficult to predict "how" he'll get there, and "when" he'll arrive at the expected totals, but his year to year results are about as steady as they come.

I love Kreider. Frustrated with him because I always feel he could be better. Those numbers are steady. But I always feel they should be around 70-75. But unfortunately that’s not the case. He has the tools.

 

[Machinehead]

I love Kreider. Frustrated with him because I always feel he could be better. Those numbers are steady. But I always feel they should be around 70-75. But unfortunately that’s not the case. He has the tools.

Does he, though?

 

[Edge]

Does he, though?

I'm kind of in the same boat as you. I think he has enough tools that it gives the illusion that there should be more there, but the handful of tools he's missing are essential tools.

 

[Avery16]

His body wouldn’t last being physical every game. He is what he is. Flashes of a power forward and disappears. Put him with Crosby and he might net 40. Not on this team though and at 28 he’s not worth the investment with so many young kids. This team already has an issue with old veterans compensation outweighing their performance.

So you’re saying he’s too good to be someone like Dubinsky or Callahan? What’s he saving his body for, the Cup push in his 40s? This is the job. You get paid the millions to do it every night, not just once in a while when you feel like it.

 

[duhmetreE]

Kreider can be inconsistent in the regular season, but if he goes beast mode in the playoffs, it'd be all worth it.

big IF though

 

[Kovalev27]

Do you remember what the salary cap was back then? How much did Jagr get in the KHL? Guessing there was correlation between the two. Loved Jagr.
Nope, I have to disagree about Kreider getting better. This is it... what we've been seeing the past 3-4 seasons has pretty much cemented his ceiling on this team.

I’m pretty sure it became a dick swinging contest between slats and jagr that screwed this up. We had a player option or something weird the isn’t allowed now if I recall

 

[NYSPORTS]

So you’re saying he’s too good to be someone like Dubinsky or Callahan? What’s he saving his body for, the Cup push in his 40s? This is the job. You get paid the millions to do it every night, not just once in a while when you feel like it.

i said he is what he is. I’m trading him