Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX

[duhmetreE]

Alrighty I’ll take your and @duhmetreE ’s word for it. So you guys think he’s comparable to Kreider?

Kreider-type.. as in big and fast and sometimes exhibits questionable IQ but he's still young.

 

[kovazub94]

I would think Kreider will bring in something better than a 4th liner.

He’s there in the same manner that Lemieux was brought as a 4th liner with a chance to continue developing into something more. As I said in that original post, bottom -6 assignments were put in conservatively and instead of missing a 1st and 2nd liner, it might be 2nd and a 3rd or a 1st and 3rd, etc

 

[Deleted member 23124]

The good thing is that Robertson is a leaf, they need dmen so if we want him we can probably have him for a d

My apologies....I misread your original post -- Didn't see "Nick" -- thought you were talking about our draft pick Matthew Robertson (although my statements still stand).

 

[Good Intentions]

Alrighty I’ll take your and @duhmetreE ’s word for it. So you guys think he’s comparable to Kreider?

Not really...

Kreider has the prototypical power forward body. His size and skill is elite. Why he isn’t a perennial 40-40 contender is a shame.

Athanasiou is a burner - but more of a complementary piece. He doesn’t “drive offense” as previously stated. “Good Kreider” is capable of driving offense.

As for Brendan Smith, you’re talking about a player cut out of 1997. He has some skill, but he’s staying in the league based on his physicality (and contract). He’s a spare part, at best. Entirely different category of player. 4 tiers down...

 

[kovazub94]

TBH, I wouldn’t mind if Athanasiou somehow became Kreider’s replacement on the roster because of the speed element in his game. Wouldn’t for Buch’s spot.
I wouldn’t mind if Kreider was traded for a first and Jost (example) and that first and, say, Reunanen were to turned into Athanasiou. The Rangers would still have another first and other assets (the above mentioned Buchnevich, etc) to make another move or more draft related.

 

[RGY]

TBH, I wouldn’t mind if Athanasiou somehow became Kreider’s replacement on the roster because of the speed element in his game. Wouldn’t for Buch’s spot.
I wouldn’t mind if Kreider was traded for a first and Jost (example) and that first and, say, Reunanen were to turned into Athanasiou. The Rangers would still have another first and other assets (the above mentioned Buchnevich, etc) to make another move or more draft related.

No shot in hell would I fork over a 1st round pick for Athanasiou, let alone an additional piece. He has been way too inconsistent throughout his career thus far. If people think Kreider is inconsistent, just wait until Athansiou is here. I would love to have AA, but at the right price.

 

[kovazub94]

No shot in hell would I fork over a 1st round pick for Athanasiou, let alone an additional piece. He has been way too inconsistent throughout his career thus far. If people think Kreider is inconsistent, just wait until Athansiou is here. I would love to have AA, but at the right price.

Well, blame it on me not knowing what the fair price would be. Maybe it’s 2nd and a prospect. Otherwise I’ve seen his game being at high enough level and his inconsistency couldn’t be much worse than Kreider’s.

Just saying if things workout from this point on as good as we can reasonably hope for, then a forward group of something like below could actually develop into a contender level in as little as 2 years from now

AA - Zibanejad - Kakko
Panarin - Strome - Kravtsov
xx - Chytil - Buchnevich
Lemieux - Jost - Howden

 

[Barnaby]

Really Edwards is a Eklund wannabe with less sources than Eklund. I can’t believe anyone believes anything they read on that pathetic site.

That guy could be 16 or 45. Creepy.

 

[mti79]

Since we're speculating about Detroit, any chance we could get svechnikov out of them? He seems like he could use a change of scenery. He's got talent and if it wouldn't be cost prohibitive, would love to get him in our system. Just not sure where he stands in their system.

 

[Mikos87]

AA would cost you a 1st and 3rd.

If you get a late 1st and a prospect for Kreider, you can flip that 1st and a spare 3rd for AA. You’d need to know what the contract value is going to be. He should clock in around $5M over term. Ideally a shade under.

You have a spare 3rd from the Vesey deal, and can get another in a Fast trade.

You get AA and flip Skjei for another top 6 guy who is playing down in a line up. Call up VK and get another 4th liner and you have a deep forward group that’s cost certain and in their prime, or entering their prime.

 

[kovazub94]

AA would cost you a 1st and 3rd.

If you get a late 1st and a prospect for Kreider, you can flip that 1st and a spare 3rd for AA. You’d need to know what the contract value is going to be. He should clock in around $5M over term. Ideally a shade under.

You have a spare 3rd from the Vesey deal, and can get another in a Fast trade.

You get AA and flip Skjei for another top 6 guy who is playing down in a line up. Call up VK and get another 4th liner and you have a deep forward group that’s cost certain and in their prime, or entering their prime.

Yeah, almost exactly what I was thinking.

 

[pld459666]

As much as I’d love it.
I hate hearing how we need one of the tzchuks bc it’s never gonna happen now. Neither one of those teams are trading either one of those kids unless and until they force them to do or walk as UFA.

Someone else said it, it’s gonna be like his dad all over. For the next 10 years we will be linked to them. But again unless one or both of them make up their mind they’d like to play for the rangers someday while in their primes, it’s never gonna happen

I mention the name often, but it's not necessarily them specifically.

It is that TYPE of player that the Rangers should be after to varying degrees of skill level

I also mentioned Brayden Schenn as he fits that mold as well.

 

[leetch99]

I mention the name often, but it's not necessarily them specifically.

It is that TYPE of player that the Rangers should be after to varying degrees of skill level

I also mentioned Brayden Schenn as he fits that mold as well.

Schenn goes through another Cup final I expect most of his drive will be in the rear view mirror. Hungry guys should be our focus and not guys already well nourished on Cups and playoff wins .

 

[LokiDog]

Since we're speculating about Detroit, any chance we could get svechnikov out of them? He seems like he could use a change of scenery. He's got talent and if it wouldn't be cost prohibitive, would love to get him in our system. Just not sure where he stands in their system.

I think Detroit likes him. He had an injury if I remember and they’re bringing him along slowly, but I don’t think he’s untouchable. Probably would be tough to get though. In a package for Buch or Skjei? I would say definitely. For picks and prospects? I don’t think so unless we wanted to overpay.

 

[Kocur Dill]

Since we're speculating about Detroit, any chance we could get svechnikov out of them? He seems like he could use a change of scenery. He's got talent and if it wouldn't be cost prohibitive, would love to get him in our system. Just not sure where he stands in their system.

IDK.

I'm not too fond of Carolina brothers knocking out NYR brothers in the heat of competition.

 

[RangerBoy]

Not going to debate the premise, but Kreider and Strome are going to cost you around $12 million to resign. With Lemmy, probably $14 million+.

Trading ADA, Fast, Buch and Georgiev would likely bring back another $3-10 million in salary, because the Rangers aren't likely trading them for prospects or picks.

Staal and Smith aren't going anywhere, unless one of both of them develops a case of Seabrook-itis.

The Rangers should consider buying out both Staal and Smith this summer. The Rangers free up some cap space and open up two roster spots for next season. The Rangers will save less than could have because Staal and Smith have $1M signing bonuses which are buyout proof. The Rangers will save $3.7M on the cap for next season. The second and last season of the buyouts are very cheap.

The Rangers have Skjei, Lindgren and Hajek on the left side. Hajek is nearing a return from his knee injury and Quinn said Hajek will play some AHL games after he is deemed healthy. Miller could turn pro this summer. Where does one more season of Staal fit for next season? Same situation as Lundqvist.

Lindgren came up when Staal got hurt. When Staal was nearing his return from the ankle injury, Hajek hurt his knee in TB. Hajek will be back soon. The Rangers are better off with Lindgren and Hajek than playing Staal.

The Rangers have an expansion draft to prepare for in the next 18 months. They can protect 3 D on 7-3-1 or 8 skaters and one goalie. Trouba has a NMC. That is one slot. The Rangers have 4 D eligible for the draft. Skjei, DeAngelo, Lindgren and Hajek. The Rangers can only protect two of that group. Every team has to expose one signed D for 21-22 who has played 40 NHL games in 20-21 or 70 NHL games combined in 19-20 and 20-21.

I saw what you wrote in the WJC thread about the Rangers looking to upgrade on he left side by moving Skjei with another asset for that player. The Rangers would have to protect that player which makes another player vulnerable. If the Rangers can't move Skjei, he would be the player to expose to meet the expansion draft requirement. He will have 3 years left in 2021 at $5.25M. The Rangers protect the younger D.

Going with 8 skaters sees only 5 skater slots remaining after Panarin, Zibanejad and Trouba. NMC. Chytil gets one of the 5 slots.

The Rangers will need to expose two signed forwards with the 40/70 games played for 21-22 in the expansion draft. Fast would be the perfect player to re-sign and the Rangers could expose him to meet the requirements. That adds money to the Rangers cap.

Keeping Kreider and other players by moving other players and not bringing back money gets more complicated having to prepare for the expansion draft.

 

[Bring Back Avery]

So the rangers are going to be contenders in at least 3 years in your opinion, just when Kreider is most likely going to start going into decline. And suddenly the rangers are left with yet again another over-priced contract that will haunt them for several years and handicap the team from making the proper moves needed to improve. Then the whole boards goes up in arms again about how the organization never learns.

Aren't we all getting tired of this tune?

Like others have said on here, I'm for retaining Kreider, but only if it's for 4 or 5 years, not 6 or 7. By then the team should be contenders and I don't think he is going to decline as quickly as some people think. He's a workout nut like Jagr and St Louis we're. That helped keep them both from really trailing off until their late 30s.

 

[NYR Viper]

Expansion is a little ways off but for forwards:
Panarin
Zibanejad
Chytil
Buch
Howden
Lemieux
______ (could be Strome)

Kaako and Kravtsov are exempt

Defense:
Trouba
ADA
Lindgren/Hajek

Fox and Rykov are exempt

Would it not make more sense, at least in terms of the expansion draft, to trade Skjei for a forward who needs protection and then roll with Lindgren or Hajek (whoever they deem to protect) and Rykov on the left side versus bringing in another defensemen to protect?

Based on what I'm seeing I would probably go for:

TDL '20:
Trade Kreider for Frederic (exempt) + BOS 1st '20
Re-sign Fast (3 years @ $2.75m per season)

Off-season '20:
Skjei + Georgiev for Nylander
Buch for EDM 1st '20 + Yamamoto (exempt)
Re-sign Strome (4 years @ $4.5m)

 

[Trxjw]

Based on the teams rumored to be interested, and the way the deadline landscape is shaping up, I'd be asking for a 1st, prospect, and a young reclamation project for Kreider. Seems like Colorado, Pittsburgh, and Boston all have those pieces potentially available.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Typically, our best defensive center. One to take big defensive draws and can be relied upon in defensive scenarios/PK. Good hockey-sense/IQ. Good on faceoffs. Excels in coverage. Excels on the boards. Relentless on the forecheck and backheck. Rarely ever out of position. Contribute somewhat offensively. At least a decent skater. A good 3rd line center is really, a solid middle 6 player. Chytil checks some of the boxes but is not meant to be a checking center at this current point in time.

Our bottom6 is a liability... Even looking forward, our bottom6 seems to be in question/suspect. I don't foresee anyone else here anytime soon.. Maybe Barron? This board hates Howden but he's now a pivotal piece to the puzzle. If he's not the guy, we need to start looking for a cost-controlled option. Lias was a part of that equation but things changed. A player like Cirelli would be amazing and as good as we could hope for... along with Howden developing into that guy,

The Rangers dont have any good defensive centers. But perhaps more importantly, with such razor thin depth and just coming out of a rebuild, they don't have the luxury of comporting players into traditional roles at this point. Lets get 10-12 NHL-caliber forwards on the roster before we start defining the roles necessary for a truly competitive team. I just think it's unfair to single out Chytil as not being a good 3rd line center when getting him ice-time at the center position is more paramount than anything at this point in time.

Looking forward, just 2 points:

1. I think your viewpoint of what the bottom 6 forwards should entail is somewhat antiquated. Skating is paramount these days whether you're a defensive specialist or not. What it means to be a bottom 6 player is a lot more fungible than it was a decade or two ago. You can go in a few different directions as long as you have guys that can skate.

2. To be honest, Im not overly concerned about it at this point. If the Rangers are done cultivating all the young players they've drafted in the last couple of years and they still don't have 12 NHL-caliber forwards, then I'll be concerned. But, for me anyway, I'm pretty happy with what's happened in the top 6 and with the defense in a relatively short period of time.

 

[Fitzy]

To previous points in the thread...

1) I feel like it isn't a certainly KeAndre Miller goes pro this offseason. Unless RB knows something we all don't.

2) This team's "Window" in my opinion begins at the start of the 2021-2022 season. If they let Staal, Smith, and Hank ride out their contracts to that offseason it opens up a ton of cap space. Add another season and a half to our current youngster development and add any new prospects that make the NHL team.

To point two- to me, buying out Staal and or Smith is the wrong move, because it shifts cap from a time when we're still a relative longshot for the cup (The 2020-2021 season) to seasons where we could very feasibly be competitive (2021-2022 and beyond)

 

[NYSPORTS]

So the rangers are going to be contenders in at least 3 years in your opinion, just when Kreider is most likely going to start going into decline. And suddenly the rangers are left with yet again another over-priced contract that will haunt them for several years and handicap the team from making the proper moves needed to improve. Then the whole boards goes up in arms again about how the organization never learns.

Aren't we all getting tired of this tune?

imo, some fans can’t emotionally part ways with some players. The guy is an old 28 yr old and will more closely resemble a Marc Staal in a few years.

 

[NernieBichols]

I mention the name often, but it's not necessarily them specifically.

It is that TYPE of player that the Rangers should be after to varying degrees of skill level

I also mentioned Brayden Schenn as he fits that mold as well.

I’m just messing around. I get what you mean

And I wanted to put it out on a public forum. If they want to play for the rangers someday. They are gonna have to dictate that is the path they want to go and walk it, and that’s easy enough. Enjoy playing hockey with your teams, try to win as much as you can, but make it clear your giving them their years and then this is what your doing. That’s what I would do if I were a player of their stature, and I’d do it extremely early on.

I’d say I’ll work with you guys, I bleed with you guys to win, but I’m not signing a contract past my UFA year and it’s because this is a part of my goal in hockey with my hockey career. Who could fault you? And then you don’t have to hide it and have it rumored. It’s between you and the team and it’s cleaner.

Could you imagine the tkachuk brothers coming to team up here 3-5 years from now in their primes with the team we’re growing. Whoa, that would be something to dream about

“Come play and win together, almost like a movie script”

 

[Kovalev27]

We trade Kreider we’ll be looking for a Kreider for the next decade while the guy will still be bull rushing the league the next 5 years at least. Some of you are already looking to trade for a potential Kreider when you already have him. Amazing.

 

[wafflepadsave]

The Rangers dont have any good defensive centers. But perhaps more importantly, with such razor thin depth and just coming out of a rebuild, they don't have the luxury of comporting players into traditional roles at this point. Lets get 10-12 NHL-caliber forwards on the roster before we start defining the roles necessary for a truly competitive team. I just think it's unfair to single out Chytil as not being a good 3rd line center when getting him ice-time at the center position is more paramount than anything at this point in time.

Looking forward, just 2 points:

1. I think your viewpoint of what the bottom 6 forwards should entail is somewhat antiquated. Skating is paramount these days whether you're a defensive specialist or not. What it means to be a bottom 6 player is a lot more fungible than it was a decade or two ago. You can go in a few different directions as long as you have guys that can skate.

2. To be honest, Im not overly concerned about it at this point. If the Rangers are done cultivating all the young players they've drafted in the last couple of years and they still don't have 12 NHL-caliber forwards, then I'll be concerned. But, for me anyway, I'm pretty happy with what's happened in the top 6 and with the defense in a relatively short period of time.

And, they’re not done rebuilding either. Panarin and trouba really mask where we are. This team could be potentially 5-10 less wins without those two. Don’t see Chytl being a defensive driver ever. He’s an offensive guy or less effective.