Toggle sidebar

Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX

  • Xenforo Cloud has upgraded us to version 2.3.6. Please report any issues you experience.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Would anyone consider a deal around:

Mike Condon + Zack Smith for Brendan Smith?

Condon has 1 more year at $2.4m
Real salary of $2.5m and $3m this year and next
Zack Smith has 2 more years at $3.25m
Real salary of $3.25m this year, $3.25m next and $3.25m the following year

Brendan Smith has 2 more years at $4.35m
Real salary of $4.53m this year, $4.53m next year and $3.35m the following year

2018-2019
Ottawa
$4.35m cap
$4.53m real dollar
NYR
$5.65m cap
$5.75m real dollars

2019-2020
Ottawa
$4.35m cap
$4.53m real dollars
NYR
$5.65m cap
$6.25m real dollars

2020-2021
Ottawa
$4.35m cap
$3.35m real dollars
NYR
$3.25m cap
$3.25m real dollars


Overall:
Ottawa
$12.51m real dollars over 3 years
NYR
$15.25m real dollars over 3 years

What would Melvyk give to alleviate $2.75m over the next few years? The Rangers lower the year 3 cap hit by over a million dollars. Zack Smith is an effective role player and a forward is easier to find a spot for in the lineup. Perhaps the Rangers find a taker for Condon at half cap hit for next year.

Just spitballing
 
  • Like
Reactions: leetch99
Riche16 said:
By paltry I mean yes we have cap space but not enough for what you're implying, we have prospects but not good enough to contribute yet, and draft picks which obv mean nothing to you (which are ironically probably our most valuable assets because there's no cap associated with them).

I don't consider myself age obsessed 2028 GM, but I want to build a winner and the method you seem to be backing is what we tried and failed at repeatedly. I'd like to draft a good young team that peaks together rather than an elite goalie who we have to try to buy a team for because his presence accelerated our timeline to the point where he had no one around him except mercenaries.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone here expected Lundqvist to be as good as he was as soon as he was, or to have that kind of career. I expected something more in like with like a Khabeboulin.

You can't force when an athlete peaks. Every sports franchise is full of really good to HOF players who come up at the wrong time. Even the Yankees with Mattingly. Henrik being that good along with the Rangers having a real first line (Jarg-Nylander-Straka) sped things up in terms of being competitive.

Insanity would be building a team the same way around Shestyorkin/Georgiev/Huska/Blomqvist/Wall; whoever from that group becomes the de facto starter.

Try to get the best players and work from there. Don't be cute. The D pipeline is very much built up for the next five years and should get at least 3 between all of Miller/Lundqvist/Keane/Rykov/Hajek/Lindgren/Raunenen/Gross/Ragnarsom and maybe someone else this draft. Some will exceed expectations others will not. We'll see for example if Hajek is able to translate any offense to the pro level.

Concentrate on forwards this draft.
 
COL might consider moving that 1st in a deal with MikaZib as the base, but that's about it
 
NYR Viper said:
Would anyone consider a deal around:

Mike Condon + Zack Smith for Brendan Smith?

Condon has 1 more year at $2.4m
Real salary of $2.5m and $3m this year and next
Zack Smith has 2 more years at $3.25m
Real salary of $3.25m this year, $3.25m next and $3.25m the following year

Brendan Smith has 2 more years at $4.35m
Real salary of $4.53m this year, $4.53m next year and $3.35m the following year

2018-2019
Ottawa
$4.35m cap
$4.53m real dollar
NYR
$5.65m cap
$5.75m real dollars

2019-2020
Ottawa
$4.35m cap
$4.53m real dollars
NYR
$5.65m cap
$6.25m real dollars

2020-2021
Ottawa
$4.35m cap
$3.35m real dollars
NYR
$3.25m cap
$3.25m real dollars


Overall:
Ottawa
$12.51m real dollars over 3 years
NYR
$15.25m real dollars over 3 years

What would Melvyk give to alleviate $2.75m over the next few years? The Rangers lower the year 3 cap hit by over a million dollars. Zack Smith is an effective role player and a forward is easier to find a spot for in the lineup. Perhaps the Rangers find a taker for Condon at half cap hit for next year.

Just spitballing
Click to expand...

Does Ottawa need D? It’s a good trade for the Rangers also because either of the two cheaper contracts would be easier to move.
 
Last edited:
kovazub94 said:
Does Ottawa need D? It’s a good trade for the Rangers also because either of the lower contracts would be easier to move.
Click to expand...

From looking at their back end I would say Smith would fill a role with them. I’m thinking they’d really like to lower their overall payroll which is where I thought of this. Maybe they feel they could offload those guys themselves.
 
Filthy Dangles said:
COL might consider moving that 1st in a deal with MikaZib as the base, but that's about it
Click to expand...

I don’t see the Avs or any other team trading a potential 1st overall pick for a Zibanejad base. The combination of the late 1st/Timmins/Jost/Kaut is much more likely.

If I had to make a prediction.

Hayes for 2019 1st, 2020 2nd, and Timmins.

I’d be quite happy with it.
 
I've been mentioning it for months but why would Colorado want to make a move this soon? They have zero reason to. They have one maybe two lottery tickets that can set the franchise up for the next five-seven seasons. Unless there is some kind of crazy ultimatum from ownership to make the playoffs this year, this is a bonus for them. No pressure in that market to win now either.

Zib has a very good contract but they may get a player as good as him in this draft.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mikos87 and Iracundia
Riche16 said:
Unless Sakic thinks that J Hughes is just too small to contribute right away and or to be nearly as effective in the NHL there’s zero chance he trades that OTT pick. If he does and the price is Kreider AND Hayes how can Gorton pull that trigger?

Clickbait
Click to expand...

I don’t think it’s likley that the Ottawa pick even will have 10+% to win the lottery. Ottawa is 5 pts away from the 24th spot and has no reason to tank. The 28th spot gives you a 9.5% shot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheTakedown
Skjeikspeare said:
I don't think anyone here expected Lundqvist to be as good as he was as soon as he was, or to have that kind of career. I expected something more in like with like a Khabeboulin.

You can't force when an athlete peaks. Every sports franchise is full of really good to HOF players who come up at the wrong time. Even the Yankees with Mattingly. Henrik being that good along with the Rangers having a real first line (Jarg-Nylander-Straka) sped things up in terms of being competitive.

Insanity would be building a team the same way around Shestyorkin/Georgiev/Huska/Blomqvist/Wall; whoever from that group becomes the de facto starter.

Try to get the best players and work from there. Don't be cute. The D pipeline is very much built up for the next five years and should get at least 3 between all of Miller/Lundqvist/Keane/Rykov/Hajek/Lindgren/Raunenen/Gross/Ragnarsom and maybe someone else this draft. Some will exceed expectations others will not. We'll see for example if Hajek is able to translate any offense to the pro level.

Concentrate on forwards this draft.
Click to expand...
I wasn't really blaming Hank or management for that matter. They did what they could to expedite things. It didn't work.

I was merely illustrating how I don't want more kicks at any cans. I want to cognitively build a team through the draft in an attempt to have them peak at the right time.
 
Riche16 said:
I wasn't really blaming Hank or management for that matter. They did what they could to expedite things. It didn't work.

I was merely illustrating how I don't want more kicks at any cans. I want to cognitively build a team through the draft in an attempt to have them peak at the right time.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I didn't mean to unintentionally get angry about your post lol. I think what you want is more attainable because the new goalie is either already here in Georgiev, or will take 1-2 years to get ready.

Lundqvist should realize he's not going to compete for the Cup this year, and next year is unknown and all depends on where the Rangers draw in the lottery and what moves they make. He realistically has maybe one more shot at the playoffs and that's not even as a favorite.
 
Skjeikspeare said:
I've been mentioning it for months but why would Colorado want to make a move this soon? They have zero reason to. They have one maybe two lottery tickets that can set the franchise up for the next five-seven seasons. Unless there is some kind of crazy ultimatum from ownership to make the playoffs this year, this is a bonus for them. No pressure in that market to win now either.

Zib has a very good contract but they may get a player as good as him in this draft.
Click to expand...

I think Hayes makes sense for them long-term. That’s when their 1st + makes sense. The Ottawa 1st is going to be off limits. That’s a given at this point u less there is some sort of condition like it must be outside of top-8 or something
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ola
NYR Viper said:
I think Hayes makes sense for them long-term. That’s when their 1st + makes sense. The Ottawa 1st is going to be off limits. That’s a given at this point u less there is some sort of condition like it must be outside of top-8 or something
Click to expand...

But unless Hayes signs a new contract before which never happens in the NHL, they're not going to trade their pick for him. Not in this era. It would cost Sakic his job. The only GM who would make a move like that was Phil Esposito.
 
  • Like
Reactions: leetch99
Skjeikspeare said:
But unless Hayes signs a new contract before which never happens in the NHL, they're not going to trade their pick for him. Not in this era. It would cost Sakic his job. The only GM who would make a move like that was Phil Esposito.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure trading picks for bonafide players has cost a single GM their job. Making the playoffs twice since 2010 cost GMS their jobs.

That isn't all on Joe and I'm not suggesting his position is in jeopardy, but let's not lose sight of the fact that this is a business. Playoff revenue is huge. GMs don't get infinite patience and money left on the table is harder to accept than missed lottery chances.
 
  • Like
Reactions: East Coast Bias, jas and FIRE DRURY
Skjeikspeare said:
But unless Hayes signs a new contract before which never happens in the NHL, they're not going to trade their pick for him. Not in this era. It would cost Sakic his job. The only GM who would make a move like that was Phil Esposito.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure. Say their pick is going to be around 18 a trade of that and a B/B+ prospect for Hayes and our 2nd rounder (pick 40ish) doesn't seem that outlandish.
It lets them evaluate whether it is worth looking at Hayes long term and as Dutch points out hopefully brings in at least a game or 2 of extra playoff revenue
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheTakedown
There’s no reason to trade either Zibanejad or Kreider at this time. Why rush this decision when both have contracts beyond this season. Extra year will bring more in a trade? Possibly but having a clearer picture on the future roster should be more important.

As of right now the Rangers have these two plus Chytil as a sure top6. In two years Vesey-Howden-Buchnevich will be more than adequate third line. Strome, Andersson, Fast, Names further down the depth with clearly more upside as a group. The Rangers will have Kravtsov, whoever they could draft with the early first rounder and I hope Panarin will want to sign a reasonable contract to round up top6.

This part of the plan is more or less straightforward.

What’s very unclear is how defense will be addressed. What’s going to happen with Hayes’ trade and via UFA market is the key. Hopefully Gorton is able to pull out another Chara level signing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheTakedown and leetch99
NYR Viper said:
I think Hayes makes sense for them long-term. That’s when their 1st + makes sense. The Ottawa 1st is going to be off limits. That’s a given at this point u less there is some sort of condition like it must be outside of top-8 or something
Click to expand...

Outside of 8 is hefty for me.

And if it’s conditional in this context, we must of course get something else instead and what shall that be? It can’t be Ottawa’s 1st as long as it’s not say top 4 or Colorado’s pick in 2020. Whatever we get as an option must be be worth as much as we expected to trade for to start with.

Sure I am ‘biased’ and it’s perfectly possible that Colorado won’t even discuss moving that pick. But I honestly think that these picks are valued a bit wrongly when their value are discussed. Why? Like let’s say we give up assets worth an 6th overall pick. We get a pick that can be anywhere from what 1st to 14th overall. 1-2 overall this is super jackpot, any of those picks are like worth 2-3 6th overall picks, right. The odds vary for each position. Probably like 1/15 that it’s top 1, 1/12 that it’s top 2, 1/10 that it’s top 3 or whatever — you get my point. But it’s also perfectly possible that Ottawa’s pick is 12th overall, and what if you dealt Hayes and Kreider for the 12th overall pick — that is pretty worthless value right.

So the risk goes both ways and it must be valued accordingly. I personally think it’s fair value to trade say Kreider and Hayes for:
alt 1 If Ottawa’s pick is top 2, we get 3 Colorado first rounders and their 2nd this year,
alt 2 if it’s 3-5 overall, Ottawa’s pick alone,
alt 3 if it’s 6 or later Ottawa’s pick + Colorado’s own 1st while they get our 2nd.
 
Proposal:


Lundqvist, Purple Hayes

for

Ottawa 1st, Varlamov, Kaut

Colorado goes all in for the next few years. Trading for Lundqvist is the 20 years later edition of trading for Ray Bourque.
 
RodBigras said:
Proposal:


Lundqvist, Purple Hayes

for

Ottawa 1st, Varlamov, Kaut

Colorado goes all in for the next few years. Trading for Lundqvist is the 20 years later edition of trading for Ray Bourque.
Click to expand...

Avs arent trading the Ottawa #1. Even if they were open to it that package wouldn't get the pick by itself let alone Kaut as well.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom