Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XX

[The Crypto Guy]

At this point, Zucc clearly is not in the right mind to be playing hockey with this team anymore. He should be sitting the press box until he is traded, hopefully sooner than later. Unfortunately his value will be far lower than it should be...he really didn't do the team any favors. Best we can hope for is a high 2nd at this point.

 

[Thirty One]

At this point, Zucc clearly is not in the right mind to be playing hockey with this team anymore. He should be sitting the press box until he is traded, hopefully sooner than later. Unfortunately his value will be far lower than it should be...he really didn't do the team any favors. Best we can hope for is a high 2nd at this point.

Watch me hope for more.

 

[NYR Viper]

I mentioned Fast earlier in the season. Alone probably a 3rd. Could be a good add on to Hayes though.

I think we would be surprised at what Fast would return. @ $1.85m he is more the reasonably paid. He has another year on his deal. RH shot. Plays both wings and is a VERY good PKer. I'd be surprised if he didn't return a 2nd + prospect if he is dealt this year

 

[SA16]

Rick Nash last 3 years with CBJ: G/60: 1.07. A/60: 1.00. Pts/60 2.07. Shots/60 11.03. TOI/GP 14.00

Rick Nash first 3 years with NYR: G/60: 1.51. A/60 0.95. Pts/60 2.45. Shot/60 13.02. TOI/GP 13.49

Rick Nash last 3 years with NYR (and small amount of BOS): G/60: 0.90. A/60 0.85 Pts/60 1.75. Shots/60 10.9. TOI/GP 12.45

So his first 3 years with the Rangers he actually performed way better than he did in Columbus despite less ice time. The last 3 years his production was way down (but still good) and ice time way down. But did you not expect him to decline as he got older and starting having concussion issues? Additionally in that time from 2015-2018 264 forwards played at least 2000 5v5 mins and his 1.75 pts/60 ranks 96th which is still elite 2nd line production.

So essentially what I'm saying to anyone is if you were disappointed with Nash's 5v5 production you are wrong. If you are disappointed with his PP numbers your expectations were wrong because he hadn't put up good PP numbers his last two years in CBJ either (plus his role on the PP in NY was odd). If you are disappointed with his counting numbers then you don't understand how ice time affects counting stats. And if you're disappointed with his playoff production fine but it's almost all just shooting percentage variance.

The end.

 

[Tawnos]

At this point, Zucc clearly is not in the right mind to be playing hockey with this team anymore. He should be sitting the press box until he is traded, hopefully sooner than later. Unfortunately his value will be far lower than it should be...he really didn't do the team any favors. Best we can hope for is a high 2nd at this point.

I'm not sure how much stuff like this really affects trade value. Hanzal had scored at 0.62 in the 4 years preceding him being traded. He was only scoring at 0.51 when he got dealt to Minnesota for essentially a 1st and a 2nd. Ladd scored at 0.73 in the 4 years preceding him being traded. He was only scoring at 0.57 when he was traded to the Blackhawks for a 1st and a highly regarded prospect.

I think teams will look at Zuccarello and think two things... yes, he's upset he might be dealt, but also he's also playing on a bottom-5 offense in the league. Despite those two things, he's still scoring at a middle-6 rate.

 

[E-Train]

I'd be surprised if he didn't return a 2nd + prospect if he is dealt this year

I’d be very happy with that return. As Custance said, Rangers have a one stop shop for buyers. Rentals, term, forwards, D. We have it all.

 

[Avery16]

At this point, Zucc clearly is not in the right mind to be playing hockey with this team anymore. He should be sitting the press box until he is traded, hopefully sooner than later. Unfortunately his value will be far lower than it should be...he really didn't do the team any favors. Best we can hope for is a high 2nd at this point.

Hey, that should have a great effect on his trade value

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Hey, that should have a great effect on his trade value

Rather he sit there over not putting any effort out on the ice and pouting to the media after games.

 

[NernieBichols]

the 9-1 run fooled me.

plus the guys seems committed to the new system and quinn seems like he had them on the same page.

hank was standing on his head and even the games they were losing they were competitive and the effort was there.

thats all gone.

i just think theres too much belief in the kids we have now playing as being saviors. i see more support types who fill roles but nothing that screams difference makers esp. with 21, 72 and 50.

i think we are bottom 5 in the entire league talent wise.

Yeah let’s build around Mika/Hayes with this bottom 5 league wide talent we have. That will work.

No one is saying these kids are saviors. Maybe you thought the rangers thought they were. I don’t think that for a second. They are the 1st wave, the top-end talent isn’t even in the organization yet or traded or signed, his name may be Zephyr Bergmann for all we know. The realistic hope is that all 3 forwards are quality 2nd liners, with the chance chytil becomes a 1st winger. The realistic hope is that Pionk is a steady #3-4. Maybe kravtsov ends up a 1st liner, maybe miller becomes a 1st pairing. Am comfortable both become quality 2 line/pairing guys. Got a lot of D in the pipeline, with the hope 4-5 of them become 2nd pair D. Suddenly In a couple years, you’ve got 2nd line and 2nd pairing capable young players being pushed down to 3rd line/3rd pair and the rangers are really deep and young cost controlled.

The rangers best chances for top-end players are upcoming: A) in this years draft with their own pick, B) they still have their most valuable trade pieces in Mika/Kreider/Hayes/skjei. I’d say 3 of the 4 aren’t here back next year, so via the returns on whoever gets traded, is gonna be another one of the avenues that topend talent needs to be pulled from. And then C) upcoming UFAs and potentially RFAs.

So I think the rangers are still looking really good going forward. But I will say, it is a really important half-season coming up, bc the team needs to find some muse and reason for playing that is positive and progressing. Not stagnanting and creating a losing vibe in the room. One of the biggest jobs the rangers organization has right now, is to provide the support and culture and structure to keep everyone in perspective about where they are at, and what they are practicing and playing and building towards.

 

[Edge]

No, there isn’t too much belief from those of us who went headlong into this process. At every turn, I’ve said nothing about this process is guaranteed. This is new territory for this organization. And, this is not an overnight process. I’ve said that from the beginning, despite what Brooks and the hockey media has tried to claim. I haven’t wavered in that regard. The only thing that I’m now reconsidering is that, unlike my prior belief, this team is more than likely going to be this bad next year, meaning they’ll have another shot at a top five pick. Henke’s shield of invincibility wearing off is starting to force those who mistakenly believed he would alone keep the Rangers from bottoming out to reassess that train of thought. Yes, they likely bottom five in overall talent in the league.

Agreed. I think a lot of people have acknowledged the risk of this whole endeavor and accept that the kids aren't saviors. We just assume that at some point, after saying it over and over, that it's taken as a given.

I try to not qualify every post on the subject by saying, "if this works out."

 

[Tawnos]

Yeah let’s build around Mika/Hayes with this bottom 5 league wide talent we have. That will work.

No one is saying these kids are saviors. Maybe you thought the rangers thought they were. I don’t think that for a second. They are the 1st wave, the top-end talent isn’t even in the organization yet or traded or signed, his name may be Zephyr Bergmann for all we know. The realistic hope is that all 3 forwards are quality 2nd liners, with the chance chytil becomes a 1st winger. The realistic hope is that Pionk is a steady #3-4. Maybe kravtsov ends up a 1st liner, maybe miller becomes a 1st pairing. Am comfortable both become quality 2 line/pairing guys. Got a lot of D in the pipeline, with the hope 4-5 of them become 2nd pair D. Suddenly In a couple years, you’ve got 2nd line and 2nd pairing capable young players being pushed down to 3rd line/3rd pair and the rangers are really deep and young cost controlled.

The rangers best chances for top-end players are upcoming: A) in this years draft with their own pick, B) they still have their most valuable trade pieces in Mika/Kreider/Hayes/skjei. I’d say 3 of the 4 aren’t here back next year, so via the returns on whoever gets traded, is gonna be another one of the avenues that topend talent needs to be pulled from. And then C) upcoming UFAs and potentially RFAs.

So I think the rangers are still looking really good going forward. But I will say, it is a really important half-season coming up, bc the team needs to find some muse and reason for playing that is positive and progressing. Not stagnanting and creating a losing vibe in the room. One of the biggest jobs the rangers organization has right now, is to provide the support and culture and structure to keep everyone in perspective about where they are at, and what they are practicing and playing and building towards.

Alexander Holtz, who is currently lighting it up in the Swedish J20 as a 16 year old. You want a top-end sniper prospect?

 

[Ghost of jas]

Agreed. I think a lot of people have acknowledged the risk of this whole endeavor and accept that the kids aren't saviors. We just assume that at some point, after saying it over and over, that it's taken as a given.

I try to not qualify every post on the subject by saying, "if this works out."

Apparently, we need to include disclaimers every time we post about this subject.

“No, there are no guarantees about this rebuild, it is not expected to happen overnight, and every player the Rangers draft is not going to be a part of the final team construction.”

 

[NernieBichols]

I feel for zucc. He’s in a situation where there’s been so much time for coming to grips with being traded, to waiting for it, to now just ruminating in it. Too much time thinking about it. Waiting for it. Feeling unwanted.

But it’s just a business. They aren’t making the playoffs. Gorton needs to accumulate as many assets as he can right now. That’s the name of the program. He’s gonna go play for a cup and than he gets to decide where he resigns. Maybe the rangers are interested in bringing him back, but the trade part of it is inevitable. Maybe teams just haven’t made suitable offers to put gorton in this bind. But it leaves zucc dangling and left felt like a pawn, when in fact everyone loves the guy and wishes they could get a deal done for him Bc they know he doesn’t want to leave and that it’s just prolonging the forgone (maybe temporary) breakup.

I’m not gonna hold this against Zucc. If he wants to come back and there is a lineup spot made for him and the money is right. I’d bring him back. He’s such a gifted player. He hasn’t lost it. You don’t lose his skills

 

[Avery16]

Rather he sit there over not putting any effort out on the ice and pouting to the media after games.

I think this read disqualifies your take. He’s clearly trying.

 

[Tawnos]

I feel for zucc. He’s in a situation where there’s been so much time for coming to grips with being traded, to waiting for it, to now just ruminating in it. Too much time thinking about it. Waiting for it. Feeling unwanted.

Sometimes, waiting for something that's already been decided is the absolute worst. For example, my parents made the decision to sell their house in NY they lived in for 35 years and move down here to NC. The decision was made, they bought a house here and found a buyer for their house up there. The problem was that they ran into a huge bureaucratic snafu and couldn't close the sale on the NY house for months. Them having to wait in limbo while the snafus got cleared up made what was already a painful decision far more painful. That kind of waiting is the worst.

 

[Webster]

You should keep one thing in mind, and I've said this before. When did the Rangers say they are going to trade Zucc? They never did...only the media.

So don't forget this option, they may extend him. And if this happens the Rangers will get a very experienced player and leader on a bargain of a deal...again. Zucc is doing so many good things off the ice a lot of people don't think about...or perhaps I should say don't know about. And on the ice he's a true leader when he turns on his A-game.

When this situation is behind him, he'll start playing good hockey again and be the Zucc we all know, never takes a shift off. I'm 100% sure about that.

 

[NYR Viper]

People have mentioned Zuccarello + Skjei for Nylander, would Fast + Skjei make more sense for them?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

People have mentioned Zuccarello + Skjei for Nylander, would Fast + Skjei make more sense for them?

Not sure how taking on a 4th liner would be better for them than a 2nd liner if they going for the cup this season. Let alone they would never agree to a trade of Fast and Skeji for Nylander.

 

[Zats Muccarello]

People have mentioned Zuccarello + Skjei for Nylander, would Fast + Skjei make more sense for them?

Toronto is definitely not moving Nylander at this point. Would be a bad look for Dubas and Nylander's value has got to be low given his performance so far.

 

[East Coast Bias]

You should keep one thing in mind, and I've said this before. When did the Rangers say they are going to trade Zucc? They never did...only the media.

So don't forget this option, they may extend him. And if this happens the Rangers will get a very experienced player and leader on a bargain of a deal...again. Zucc is doing so many good things off the ice a lot of people don't think about...or perhaps I should say don't know about. And on the ice he's a true leader when he turns on his A-game.

When this situation is behind him, he'll start playing good hockey again and be the Zucc we all know, never takes a shift off. I'm 100% sure about that.

Dude............how long are you gonna continue to go with this?

I'm starting to wonder if this isn't Zucc himself, which would be tragic.

 

[mulli25]

You should keep one thing in mind, and I've said this before. When did the Rangers say they are going to trade Zucc? They never did...only the media.

So don't forget this option, they may extend him. And if this happens the Rangers will get a very experienced player and leader on a bargain of a deal...again. Zucc is doing so many good things off the ice a lot of people don't think about...or perhaps I should say don't know about. And on the ice he's a true leader when he turns on his A-game.

When this situation is behind him, he'll start playing good hockey again and be the Zucc we all know, never takes a shift off. I'm 100% sure about that.

I'm not so sure

 

[Tawnos]

People have mentioned Zuccarello + Skjei for Nylander, would Fast + Skjei make more sense for them?

More like maybe the Rangers would have to add Fast to Zuccarello and Skjei.

 

[Good Intentions]

I’d gladly take a 3rd and 5th for Zucc.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I’d gladly take a 3rd and 5th for Zucc.

That's a complete garbage return.

 

[Edge]

You should keep one thing in mind, and I've said this before. When did the Rangers say they are going to trade Zucc? They never did...only the media.

So don't forget this option, they may extend him. And if this happens the Rangers will get a very experienced player and leader on a bargain of a deal...again. Zucc is doing so many good things off the ice a lot of people don't think about...or perhaps I should say don't know about. And on the ice he's a true leader when he turns on his A-game.

When this situation is behind him, he'll start playing good hockey again and be the Zucc we all know, never takes a shift off. I'm 100% sure about that.

I'd like to think if they were going to extend him, they wouldn't have put him through the apparent mental anguish he's been experiencing.

And if he's going through said anguish, I'd like to believe he'd say thanks but no thanks at this point.