Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVIV

[aufheben]

I can’t imagine the Oilers are keen on trading Nurse but their group of forwards is simply appalling.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Skjei/Georgiev + Kravtsov for W. Nylander
Buchnevich + ??? for Nurse

Leafs need a G and LD. Muzzin is a UFA.

Oilers need all the forwards.

Nurse-Trouba would be tough shutdown pair.

Nurse plays 22+ minutes in all situations and scores 0.5 PPG despite not being on the top PP unit. Why would the Oilers trade him, esp when their left side is barren aside from him and Klefbom for the near future?

If they think he'll be too expensive that's an even bigger problem for us since he needs a new contract immediately and we don't know how he will fit and perform on our team, inserting more uncertainty into a large extension.

 

[Savant]

Do you really think it's fair to Shesty to have to wait another year, playing in the AHL making 70k, before he gets his chance to play in the NHL? He has an out clause in his contract for next year, so why wouldn't he go back to the KHL and make a lot more money in that scenario? He's already playing the good soldier this year and putting his career on hold out of respect for Lundqvist, but there's a limit to that patience, I'm sure.

He has proven himself at every level except the NHL. He needs to get NHL games to prove he can be a starting goalie. How does he get those games with both Hank and Georgiev here? Something has to give. If that's Hank retiring, accepting a trade or being bought out, then yeah, we can probably keep both Georgiev and Shesty for a while. If not, then someone else has to go. We aren't going to carry 3 goalies at the NHL level. I suppose they could just loan Shesty back to the KHL next year, but then his contract is up, and who says he doesn't decide to just stay there? Or maybe he asks for a trade so he can get an opportunity elsewhere if he feels like Georgiev has already earned the #1 job.

No matter what, it's a messy situation. There's no easy answer. I wish we could just wait out Hank's contract and then bring up Shesty, but the timing just doesn't work.

Fair has nothing to do with it. It’s a business. This isn’t Sorokin having to wait behind Varlamov/Griess. Lundqvist is a lifetime Ranger, hall of famer with only one year left on his deal. Rangers have his rights. This really isn’t rocket science. Georgiev is very unlikely to get what he is worth in a trade, and moving him ruins a perfectly capable cost controlled tandem for the future. And the Rangers aren’t a year away. Moving Georgiev unless there is a godfather offer is cutting off your nose to spite your face. It’s dumb.

 

[Machinehead]

So is Kovalchuk 36 or 38?

He's 69.

Nice.

 

[Trxjw]

Skjei/Georgiev + Kravtsov for W. Nylander
Buchnevich + ??? for Nurse

Leafs need a G and LD. Muzzin is a UFA.

Oilers need all the forwards.

Nurse-Trouba would be tough shutdown pair.

Say Skjei and Kravtsov for Nylander and a small add.

Buch and Georgiev for Nurse. Maybe revisit a Lias for Puljujarvi swap in the deal too.

They're big, stinging moves, but you've managed to improve significantly at both LD and RW while also getting a year younger in the process. Nurse needs a new deal but that also means you have several years of cost certainty on both players as well.

Add in a deadline return for Kreider of a 1st and a prospect like Frederic or Gauthier and you're still building up the system with quality assets.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

So is Kovalchuk 36 or 38?

Does this mean Panarin is actually 30? Lmao this kind of seems like a joke tweet but also seems a bit too real to make up. Not really getting it tbh. Moreso not getting that he's saying it's common practice for Russian hockey youth, but then he only alludes to Kovy. Does that mean the same thing for other Russian NHLers then or not?

Edit: The more I mull over it, the more I simply believe this guy is bullshitting.

 

[GAGLine]

Fair has nothing to do with it.

I imagine Shesty might disagree with that assessment. If he were in the NHL and playing as a backup, that would be one thing. Being stuck in the AHL and making only a fraction of what he could be earning is a completely different thing. Players only have so many years in their career. They never know when it might be over.

 

[NYR Viper]

Say Skjei and Kravtsov for Nylander and a small add.

Buch and Georgiev for Nurse. Maybe revisit a Lias for Puljujarvi swap in the deal too.

They're big, stinging moves, but you've managed to improve significantly at both LD and RW while also getting a year younger in the process. Nurse needs a new deal but that also means you have several years of cost certainty on both players as well.

Add in a deadline return for Kreider of a 1st and a prospect like Frederic or Gauthier and you're still building up the system with quality assets.

These would be very good deals and make the team much better

 

[Leetch3]

i know the oilers badly need players outside of the big 2...but isn't their blueline just as awful as their forwards? why would they trade nurse?

 

[Leetch3]

Unless you have a really good feeling that Georgiev will become a top 3 guy in the entire NHL, I think that we should trade him.

Start anew. Hank and Shesty next season, while we pick up someone undrafted to groom next to Huska in the AHL. Should be an attractive location.

Geo would fetch a decent return, I doubt a 1st but like a 2nd and a 3rd. If we keep him he will start making a lot more money instantly.

Most GMs are sitting on their hands out there. Give Gorton ammunition and he will get things done. Moving Geo gives us more ammo, more room to work with.

for the bar to be a top 3 goalie or bust then it would need to be a given that shesty is a top 3 goalie. that is a trash take. right now the bar is do you think shesty can be better than georgiev...not can georgiev be better, he has already shown what he can do. shesty needs to prove he is better.

 

[Leetch3]

Rangers already missed the boat on that one. Georgiev has played too many games now. Can't be sent down without going through waivers first.

I wondered if the rangers would utilize the waiver exemption status by sending down georgiev before he hit the limit to give shesty a look. but not only have the rangers shown zero indication that they even considered it, they burned thru his games played faster than anyone expected proving that it was never a thought. they could have easily played hank more than they have and stretch it out to keep the option open.

everyone expects him to get traded and I think that is because we've had our brains set on shesterkin being the heir to the king's throne for 5 years now. but I think people need to start paying attention to what is actually happening. sure he might still get traded, but the rangers are NOT treating him as a placeholder while we wait for the golden child to arrive. reality is everything that the rangers and david quinn have done and said this year points toward them believing that georgiev is the future #1 and heir to the throne...

I think 1000% the ideal scenario is to go into the post-hank era with a tandem of georgiev and shesterkin...and I won't be surprised if he gets traded cause shesterkin is really good. but I think we need to start opening our eyes to the possibility that georgiev not only won't be given away for a mid-round pick, he might end up being THE guy at the end of things.

 

[Trxjw]

i know the oilers badly need players outside of the big 2...but isn't their blueline just as awful as their forwards? why would they trade nurse?

Admittedly it's a very hard sell even if Nurse is available, which there's no indication that he is. However, they'd be addressing two problem positions in their organization with the deal I proposed. They could possibly have Buch, Georgiev, and a UFA LD for only $1-2M more than Nurse alone based on what his likely valuation is.

 

[bobbop]

Kamanev is a guy from Colorado that interests me. Definitely a question mark. Injuries have kept him out of play the past couple of seasons but he does have talent.

If there was a first + deal with Colorado, Kamanev might be a possibility to be the plus.

 

[NYRangers16]

Shesterkin needs to be in the NHL. That means you either have to demote Georgiev (unwarranted, unfair) or wait another whole season for Shesterkin to debut (also not fair). We have three goalies that need to be in the NHL and only two spots.

Shesty “NEEDS” to be in the NHL. Where do people come up with this shit?

 

[bobbop]

If the Rangers want to give Sherstykin a look (which I expect they will sometime this season), they can afford to carry three goaltenders for a limited amount of time. Georgiev was never going down. On one hand we are talking about shopping him as a future #1 goaltender (which I believe he is) and on the other hand we're sending him to Hartford on a vacation. That makes no sense.

 

[NYRangers16]

If the Rangers want to give Sherstykin a look (which I expect they will sometime this season), they can afford to carry three goaltenders for a limited amount of time. Georgiev was never going down. On hand we are talking about shopping him as a future #1 goaltender (which I believe he is) and on the other hand we're sending him to Hartford on a vacation. That makes no sense.

And Gorten made this clear. Georgie is an offseason move or *maybe* a deadline one. Guys itching for Shersty have to wait. And thankfully his maturity is better than Kravtsov(ie he isn’t running back to to the KHL).

 

[nyr2k2]

Shesty “NEEDS” to be in the NHL. Where do people come up with this ****?

I don't think it's shit. The question was why can't we keep Georgiev AND Shesterkin until Hank is gone, meaning this year and next.

Shesterkin has been dominant everywhere he has played. When guys are dominant, that's when you move them up, or else their development stagnates. So, Shesterkin in the AHL for the rest of this year? Ok, fine. Next year? If the team leaves him in the AHL next year you can watch him exercise his EAC, go back to Russia, and never come back. He has leverage in terms of where he plays.

So, yeah, Shesterkin NEEDS to be in the NHL next year. For his own development (he'll also be turning 25 this time next year) and to make sure he actually stays around.

And Gorten made this clear. Georgie is an offseason move or *maybe* a deadline one. Guys itching for Shersty have to wait. And thankfully his maturity is better than Kravtsov(ie he isn’t running back to to the KHL).

Again, the question that prompted this discussion was why we can't keep both guys for when Hank departs. It wasn't a question about this year, or actually even next year, but two years down the road. It's not about itching for Shesterkin (I'm quite happy with Georgiev, honestly), it's about acknowledging that while we can keep all three this year, doing so next year isn't realistic. You can't realistically keep Shesterkin in the AHL next year. He needs to be on the NHL roster or he's gone.

 

[duhmetreE]

I can’t imagine the Oilers are keen on trading Nurse but their group of forwards is simply appalling.

Can they afford him? Does he want to stay in EDM or will he Trouba his way out?

Buch+Lindgren+Keane? Maybe Buch+Lindgren+Lias for Nurse and Poolparty

 

[Calad]

His career has been going in the wrong direction for awhile now. I believe there were rumors of alcohol problems in Montreal as well. I want nothing to do with the guy.

He's really into the booger sugar

 

[Ola]

for the bar to be a top 3 goalie or bust then it would need to be a given that shesty is a top 3 goalie. that is a trash take. right now the bar is do you think shesty can be better than georgiev...not can georgiev be better, he has already shown what he can do. shesty needs to prove he is better.

Actually, I don’t think the same bar must be used for Shesty. Unfair? Maybe, but that is life.

It’s like a girl looking for a husband. The standard will probably vary between the age cathegories 25-30, 31-35 and 36-40...

We are not 36-40, more like 25-30. Of course the top 3 part can be discussed, why not top 10? Top 5? Wasn’t my intention to establish a super precise cut if line. But unless we are very confident that Geo will become very good — then...

 

[Ola]

Does this mean Panarin is actually 30? Lmao this kind of seems like a joke tweet but also seems a bit too real to make up. Not really getting it tbh. Moreso not getting that he's saying it's common practice for Russian hockey youth, but then he only alludes to Kovy. Does that mean the same thing for other Russian NHLers then or not?

Edit: The more I mull over it, the more I simply believe this guy is bull****ting.

I am fairly certain that it’s not true, but wouldn’t totally rule out that it never happened with a NHL player.

Common practice is that a team brings along a guy for say a U16 game, that in reality is like 18-19, and just putting a false name on him. I’ve even experienced that.

Making it work for a top NHL prospect is something completely different. You need a fake passport, birth certificate and so forth. It’s fraudulent and probably grounds for termination.

Didn’t Kova go to school? Didn’t he start at 6-7 like everyone else? Then you would have all school pictures, records and what not. All doctors notes along the way.

 

[Barnaby]

I am fairly certain that it’s not true, but wouldn’t totally rule out that it never happened with a NHL player.

Common practice is that a team brings along a guy for say a U16 game, that in reality is like 18-19, and just putting a false name on him. I’ve even experienced that.

Making it work for a top NHL prospect is something completely different. You need a fake passport, birth certificate and so forth. It’s fraudulent and probably grounds for termination.

Didn’t Kova go to school? Didn’t he start at 6-7 like everyone else? Then you would have all school pictures, records and what not. All doctors notes along the way.

Latin ball players are famous for it although I think it’s mostly cleaned up now. Idk where Kovy grew up, how stringent records were, or how strict things were. I’m not saying he did fudge his age, but it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if he did.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Does this mean Panarin is actually 30? Lmao this kind of seems like a joke tweet but also seems a bit too real to make up. Not really getting it tbh. Moreso not getting that he's saying it's common practice for Russian hockey youth, but then he only alludes to Kovy. Does that mean the same thing for other Russian NHLers then or not?

Edit: The more I mull over it, the more I simply believe this guy is bull****ting.

There are stories about Nigerian footballers being older than they are so they could play for the u23 team in the 1996 Olympics. There were no birth certificates because the municipal building in every town was burned down. As a result, they all retired at the age of 28-30 which is peculiar to say the least.

I think Malamud is just making shit up though. Russia doesn't really forge birth certificates. They stick to PED

 

[cheech70]

https://nypost.com/2019/12/19/range...ar-georgiev-changing-of-the-guard-is-upon-us/

Larry getting the ball(puck) moving on Hank

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/28325227/the-top-100-nhl-players-decade

5th best player of decade per ESPN (way higher than I would have guessed)

 

[rangersfansince08]

Can they afford him? Does he want to stay in EDM or will he Trouba his way out?

Buch+Lindgren+Keane? Maybe Buch+Lindgren+Lias for Nurse and Poolparty

How many years does Nurse have on his contract? Why trade players if we can get him in FA in a year or two?