Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVIII

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

The comment you're replying to has nothing to do with how well anything is "working out". The OP said Trouba forced a trade to NYR. I haven't seen that reported anywhere, but more importantly a first and a good prospect is not the going price for a pending UFA that has "forced" anything.

Except he was an RFA...

 

[Barnaby]

If he forced a trade, he did a bad job of it. Try blowing on your cartridge, your logic is glitchy.

I guess you weren’t paying attention.

... and you think the price of a young #2 defenseman willing to resign with you is Pionk and a late first?

 

[Avery16]

I guess you weren’t paying attention.

... and you think the price of a young #2 defenseman willing to resign with you is Pionk and a late first?

1) #20 might not be high, but it also isn't late. 2) Pionk is younger and cost-controlled. 3) Pionk is already a .5pts/GP RHD. That's not forcing anything. What top-pair D has gotten more in a trade recently?

 

[Avery16]

Except he was an RFA...

So you're saying he had even less control over the situation than I stated

 

[Barnaby]

To use your new terms, he's being asked to be a horse. Well, he signed a horse's contract. That's the gig. no excuses with that price tag, that literally what you're getting paid for.

No one is making an excuse. Holy hell. I said he’s played really well. He’s paid like a 2 and he’s played like a 2. He’s been a horse. Someone mentioned that he’s had some gaffs and I just pointed out his situation playing on a young, poor defensive club, largely with inexperienced rookie partners. He’ll make a mistake here or there bc he’s covering for the likes of a Hajek for example. His salary doesn’t effect his on ice situation. Regardless, he’s a building block and has played very well. That’s a completely logical and sensible point. I don’t know what your point seems to be. I think I have a completely logical take that 95% of people would agree with.

 

[Barnaby]

1) #20 might not be high, but it also isn't late. 2) Pionk is younger and cost-controlled. 3) Pionk is already a .5pts/GP RHS. That's not forcing anything. What top-pair D has gotten more in a trade recently?

1) #20 might not be high, but it also isn't late. 2) Pionk is younger and cost-controlled. 3) Pionk is already a .5pts/GP RHS. That's not forcing anything. What top-pair D has gotten more in a trade recently?

I consider 20-30 to be a late pick. If you consider 23 to be late then whatever - semantics.

Pionk had little value at the time. Most of us would have shipped him out for a 5th.

He wasn’t a UFA... he was a RFA who wasn’t going to sign in WPG so that had to deal him. He either requested the Rangers or gave a very short list of teams based on his wife. It’s not a secret. You can google it.

Not many have gotten that much bc they never get traded. Legit top pairing 25 year old defenseman get locked up to long contracts. The idea that you think the Rangers paid fair value is mind boggling. Go read through the trade thread on the trade boards. You’ll be lucky if 1 in 10 thinks it’s fair, and that’s including optimistic Jet fans.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

So you're saying he had even less control over the situation than I stated

No, I’m saying the Rangers had to trade in order to acquire him. And much as I like Pionk, they gave up MUCH less than fair value.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

We can open up 333k in cap space next year if we buyout Trouba!

 

[Avery16]

I consider 20-30 to be a late pick. If you consider 23 to be late then whatever - semantics.

Pionk had little value at the time. Most of us would have shipped him out for a 5th.

He wasn’t a UFA... he was a RFA who wasn’t going to sign in WPG so that had to deal him. He either requested the Rangers or gave a very short list of teams based on his wife. It’s not a secret. You can google it.

Not many have gotten that much bc they never get traded. Legit top pairing 25 year old defenseman get locked up to long contracts. The idea that you think the Rangers paid fair value is mind boggling. Go read through the trade thread on the trade boards. You’ll be lucky if 1 in 10 thinks it’s fair, and that’s including optimistic Jet fans.

Pionk had little value "at the time", i.e. a few months ago and months after he was a highly sought after college UFA. Who is engaging in semantics? "Most of us would've" The test of evaluating NYR moves SHOULD NOT BE what most of the thread would have done. Ok- #20 is low. I hope we can amass some more low picks and draft kids like Newhook and Heinola. We'll be slumming it. RFAs "force" very little. Trouba doesn't want to play? Ok. He doesn't play in the league, goes to Europe, and Winnipeg waits until he feels like fulfilling his obligation. The argument that Trouba negotiated his price isn't sustainable.

 

[Avery16]

No, I’m saying the Rangers had to trade in order to acquire him. And much as I like Pionk, they gave up MUCH less than fair value.

What was the greatest price paid in a trade for a bonafide top-pair D in the last 5 years? Yandle (plus a 4th) cost us a recent 3rd round, a low 2nd, a spare part D, and #20. Did he force a trade to NYR too? McD (plus Miller) got us two *actually low* 1sts and two *actually low* 2nds. Did he force a trade to TB?

 

[kovazub94]

Good mentor for Kravy in the AHL?

He said he wanted to win a cup without specifying which.

 

[kovazub94]

Pionk has downright awesome metrics for Winnipeg. What would we have to add in a Trouba for Pionk swap?

Zibanejad, no less, Pionk’s metrics are this good.

 

[kovazub94]

Lol, at best a 50 point scorer.

Meanwhile only 13 defenders touched that number last year.

That’s on top of calling him a defensive liability when Trouba is no worse than in top 20% defenders in the league. And he’s 25 signed for 7 years.

 

[egelband]

If we are trading Kreider for that package, I'm not interested in then trading for Zucker. I don't see him as a long term piece.

I suggested Kreider for Zucker during the offseason when it looked like Zucker was going to be traded. My rationale at the time was that the move would be a compromise between trading Kreider for futures and re-signing him, and we could then flip Zucker at a later time. After this season, Zucker will have 3 years left at 5.5 mil. He'll be 30 when his contract ends. Kreider will be 29 when his next contract starts and he'll almost certainly get more money and term than Zucker.

Zucker's stock was down at the time too, which might have meant additional assets coming our way. With Zucc signing in Minnesota, adding Kreider might have been a good fit for them. Now I don't think that's a possibility, and I'm not sure that Minnesota would be interested either, given that they are still in "win" mode. They have too much money tied up in older players, with too much term left, to start trading guys like Zucker for futures. That could change if they fall out of the playoff race, but they have been good after getting off to a bad start. I think they are going to be in it up to the end.

Not sure that’s the deal the Rangers would do - It may be a lateral move, so to speak. But I think you’re on the right track. They may have to be a bit more creative to get the value they need for Kreider. The old First-and-a-Prospect deal may not be out there.

 

[egelband]

This is the best news I have gotten all week

You’re not a Mets fan, I take it

 

[egelband]

I love the concept but if the big name prospect coming back is Cozens, I’d be mortified. I do not see NHL-level IQ with that player and don’t see him becoming anything more than a middle 6er. I wouldn’t be surprised at a total bust.

Would much prefer Newhook/Krebs or a pick that gets us Zary/Holloway.

Was going to say the same. As @usekakkorightquinn suggests, moving a bigger package for a high pick and a top prospect could work. But that’s not the prospect I’d target.

 

[kovazub94]

Pionk had little value "at the time", i.e. a few months ago and months after he was a highly sought after college UFA. Who is engaging in semantics? "Most of us would've" The test of evaluating NYR moves SHOULD NOT BE what most of the thread would have done. Ok- #20 is low. I hope we can amass some more low picks and draft kids like Newhook and Heinola. We'll be slumming it. RFAs "force" very little. Trouba doesn't want to play? Ok. He doesn't play in the league, goes to Europe, and Winnipeg waits until he feels like fulfilling his obligation. The argument that Trouba negotiated his price isn't sustainable.

You know, your recent posts are examples of a certain group of posters (you’re far from the only one) who can put out a very questionable take that invoke a lot of reasonable responses to the contrary, and instead of acknowledging and moving on - they double down and continue to dig themselves deeper and deeper down that rabbit hole. I just don’t understand it.

 

[Avery16]

You know, your recent posts are examples of a certain group of posters (you’re far from the only one) who can put out a very questionable take that invoke a lot of reasonable responses to the contrary, and instead of acknowledging and moving on - they double down and continue to dig themselves deeper and deeper down that rabbit hole. I just don’t understand it.

This take is pretty vague and heavy-handed. What is, in your opinion, the 'very questionable take' I put out? This is the most words Ive ever heard anyone use to say little more than 'I disagree.'

 

[kovazub94]

This take is pretty vague and heavy-handed. What is, in your opinion, the 'very questionable take' I put out? This is the most words Ive ever heard anyone use to say little more than 'I disagree.'

That Trouba wasn’t a good signing (from any angle).

 

[Avery16]

That Trouba wasn’t a good signing (from any angle).

Quote me posting anything like that.

 

[Avery16]

That Trouba wasn’t a good signing (from any angle).

Let me help you out:

I like Trouba. His contract isn't very risky. It wasn't a bad trade, even though Pionk is also developing and Heinola looks to have been a worthwhile pick as well. Trouba can still find another gear, but he'll have to in order to be mentioned in the same breath as Lidstrom, Coffey, or Niedermayer, not to mention those like Chara, Leetch, Zubov, MacInnis, Pronger, Stevens etc. Not there yet, and there is at least some basis for some to doubt if he'll get there. Fox and ADA are also legit. This is the cap era, tough choices have to be made. Maybe it won't be Trouba, but it will be someone, and soon.

Maybe you'd understand my 'very questionable take' better if you read enough before posting to know that I never posted said take.

 

[Tob]

Christopher James Kreider is about to become the most eligible bachelor

 

[DutchShamrock]

San Jose is still intent on making the playoffs. They canned a good coach to squeeze the last bit of juice from this group but it is painfully obvious goaltending is their issue.

For the sake of discussion, if we assume that two of the pieces moving are Georguev and Dell, what else is coming back to the Rangers?

 

[Anzi]

Shesty shutout. He might honestly be an upgrade over Hank at this point. If management is serious about making a playoff run, they need to get him a look in the big club.

 

[kovazub94]

Let me help you out:

My apologies, earlier posts weren’t yours. I was just reading other takes on why Trouba should be expendable because there’re Fox and ADA and he was somehow was worse than them before I saw these posts from you about his salary and how much the Rangers traded for him.

If he forced a trade, he did a bad job of it. Try blowing on your cartridge, your logic is glitchy.

The comment you're replying to has nothing to do with how well anything is "working out". The OP said Trouba forced a trade to NYR. I haven't seen that reported anywhere, but more importantly a first and a good prospect is not the going price for a pending UFA that has "forced" anything.