Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XVIII ( TDL is March 7th)

[Fitzy]

Jones is in for offensie purposes. When Fox comes back, on the other hand, he will almost certainly be a scratch.

It makes sense for now, I just wouldn't get your hopes up that he will be in with all 6 guys healthy. The somewhat interesting question if NYR continue to win games is De Haan vs Vaak for the fnal spot.

 

[IDvsEGO]

If the rangers are banking on Trocheck returning to form, Zibanejad returning to form, and Miller to be their #1 center all at the age of 32 and compete with the elite teams in the league, I’m afraid it’s not going to work out. Especially with the defense that they have assembled. Obviously things can change but I just don’t see a scenario where they can compete with the best without some substantial upgrades on the roster.

Also I know I’m going to get resistance on this, but Panarin is still a better player than J.T. Miller.

Better? sure, but also not the guy who's your best guy in the playoffs.
Panarin needs a guy like JTM in the playoffs.
In the playoffs JTM will produce more from just his style of play.

 

[bhamill]

I agree with everything on Panarin, but regardless if he goes this summer or next, the need for more scoring up front is a pressing need. Even with adding JTM, we don't have enough high end skill in our top six. Ideally Vinny returns to form next season, but that's not a given. Mika is a total enigma, so good luck trying to guess what he actually is long term. It will be very interesting to see what Drury's vision is for his top six.

Oh. I get it. I’m not saying we dont need more scoring if Pan goes. Just noting that keeping Pan doesn’t necessarily change that need very much.

 

[bernmeister]

If the rangers are banking on Trocheck returning to form, Zibanejad returning to form, and Miller to be their #1 center all at the age of 32 and compete with the elite teams in the league, I’m afraid it’s not going to work out. Especially with the defense that they have assembled. Obviously things can change but I just don’t see a scenario where they can compete with the best without some substantial upgrades on the roster.

Also I know I’m going to get resistance on this, but Panarin is still a better player than J.T. Miller.

It's fair to have a debate about that, as to "better".

Howev, no ? jtm at 8 is WAY better value than bread at 11.6+
that is not counting any other factors (intangibles, etc.).

imo

 

[bhamill]

If the rangers are banking on Trocheck returning to form, Zibanejad returning to form, and Miller to be their #1 center all at the age of 32 and compete with the elite teams in the league, I’m afraid it’s not going to work out. Especially with the defense that they have assembled. Obviously things can change but I just don’t see a scenario where they can compete with the best without some substantial upgrades on the roster.

Also I know I’m going to get resistance on this, but Panarin is still a better player than J.T. Miller.

Yeah. Disagreed on the bold. Panarin of last year was a straight up better OFFENSIVE player than Miller, sure. Easily. Miller since joining this team has been twice the complete player Pan has been this year.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

His production has already decreased by 33% from last season to this one, people already writing him in as a productive top 6 player from the jump are setting themselves up for disappointment especially with our teams track record

Scoring is down across the board in the NCAA this year. Doing a year to year comparison isn't really valid.

Plus his season isn't over yet.

 

[UnparalledPark]

Going 0-4 in the first round might be the best thing for this team. Force Drury to get rid of the country club players in the offseason.

Still rattling the cage…..

 

[Shesterkybomb]

He’s on an 87 point pace. And I dont think it’s a lock he ever tops 90 again. He’ll be 34 at the start of next season and he’s NOT getting any younger. He’s becoming more of a perimeter player by the minute. He’s never elevated his play, or even matched his regular season play, in the post season…. JT Miller has a much better shot at hitting 100 next year than Pan does. IMO.

The team was ass all year and he's on pace for over a point a game I think that says a lot about his contributions . I'd prefer a more straight line player that could put up those numbers but they don't grow on trees, and replacing Panarin is much harder than everyone is making it out to be.
I think the bigger issue here is that outside of faceoffs, trochek hasn't been very good this year, and collectively that line has suffered because him and Lafreniere haven't been good.

 

[UnparalledPark]

Millers someone who I completely understand either way if they sign him or trade him.

Agree, but you only trade him for equal or better assets, not just to get rid of him or his soon to be significant price tag.

 

[Fitzy]

If the rangers are banking on Trocheck returning to form, Zibanejad returning to form, and Miller to be their #1 center all at the age of 32 and compete with the elite teams in the league, I’m afraid it’s not going to work out. Especially with the defense that they have assembled. Obviously things can change but I just don’t see a scenario where they can compete with the best without some substantial upgrades on the roster.

Also I know I’m going to get resistance on this, but Panarin is still a better player than J.T. Miller.

Tro really hasn't dipped nor does he need to return to form. In most seasons he's a 55 point guy. If you have Miller scoring 90, Mika scoring 70, and Tro scoring 55, thats actually a great triple punch.

It's Mika who is the question. Do they move him back to center and push Tro down to 17-18 minutes when he'd been playing 22, or do they find more of a 3C and continue to run Trocheck as the 2.

 

[UnparalledPark]

We need a middle 6 center along with a LHD

I’m thinking we put Mika back at C next year. You can’t throw the Othmann/Berard/Perrealt types into the mix with a Parsinanin.

 

[UnparalledPark]

Bread-11.7 million
Mika 8.5 million
Kreider 6 million

all 3 gone in the summer and a 25 million dollar shopping spree. Trade everything for Brady. Back fill. Compete.

And Brady would miss playoffs for 8th year in a row and sign with the Devils the next year.

 

[noncents]

That lineup is short about two 1st line forwards. Better hope the Rangers can sign Eichel/Kaprizov/McDavid and trade for someone like Tkachuk.

i disagree. i like Zib as a 1W, and id like to give cuylle laf and perreault the opportunity to be relied upon. imo that spurs development into top line players.

consider also that we went to the ecf with zib as 1C, and only panarin as a real 1W. i've been arguing to demote kreider to 3LW and pp/pk role for 2 years.

If you prefer to run Miller Zib Troch Carrick down the middle, I could see keeping one of Kreider or Panarin and adding a middle 6 scoring wing. Peterka would fit beautifully.

 

[mas0764]

I don't know. Kreider, Othmann and Jones are gone. They will likely be used directly for a LHD, or be used to just free up space and spots.

Lineup i added with pics has 4.7 million in cap space with only 1 position open on D and a moderate estimate on the cap at 95.5.

Doesn't seem too hard to add a good d man on the left. And maybe even Panarin is traded. Or Z. So could be more.

That defense still kinda sucks. And by kinda I mean really.

 

[bhamill]

The team was ass all year and he's on pace for over a point a game I think that says a lot about his contributions . I'd prefer a more straight line player that could put up those numbers but they don't grow on trees, and replacing Panarin is much harder than everyone is making it out to be.
I think the bigger issue here is that outside of faceoffs, trochek hasn't been very good this year, and collectively that line has suffered because him and Lafreniere haven't been good.

The whole line is below our expectations based on last year. Saying Pan’s troubles this year are due to his linemates’ off years, suggests that Pan’s successes last year were due to his linemates’ play… Can’t have our cake and eat it too. So who is driving that line? There is no out for Pan here. His production is down down by 28% from last year. If we want to say it’s because of his linemates then we have to say his success last year was because of his linemates. Trocheck’s production is down by 32%. Laf’s production is down by 19%. Laf has had the least terrible decline of the three. What we draw from these objective numbers is really going to be subjective opinion. I didn’t bother determining how much of the decline for Tro and Pan is on the PP, but our PP has certainly declined from last year.
My original point about Panarin stands: IMO KEEPING Pan doesn’t replace his past production either. I think if he gets or breaks 90 pts this season we’re lucky and it will probably be due to an improved PP. And if we keep him past this year I think it just gets worse. No crystal ball and I’d be thrilled to be wrong.

 

[RangerBoy]

Kreider is playing today. What a shock. The deadline is over.

 

[mas0764]

We need a middle 6 center along with a LHD

We need a top 6 center.

 

[DanielBrassard]

i disagree. i like Zib as a 1W, and id like to give cuylle laf and perreault the opportunity to be relied upon. imo that spurs development into top line players.

consider also that we went to the ecf with zib as 1C, and only panarin as a real 1W. i've been arguing to demote kreider to 3LW and pp/pk role for 2 years.

If you prefer to run Miller Zib Troch Carrick down the middle, I could see keeping one of Kreider or Panarin and adding a middle 6 scoring wing. Peterka would fit beautifully.

Even if you like Zibanejad as a 1RW, that still leaves you short with Cuylle/Lafreniere/Perreault. I think on a cup contender Cuylle is a 3rd liner, Lafreniere hasn’t proven a thing away from Panarin and as much as I like Perreault and think he has the upside to be excellent he’s still an unknown. Also I’m sorry but Miller still doesn’t really compare to the upper echelon #1 centers in the league who usually win the cup. Ideally he is slotted in behind an Eichel or McDavid. Especially when you take into account his age and likely age-related decline, by the time we have a contending roster Miller will be 33 or 34 and won’t be the player he is even today.

Don’t even get me started with the defense. But that roster doesn’t have what it takes.

 

[mas0764]

Even if you like Zibanejad as a 1RW, that still leaves you short with Cuylle/Lafreniere/Perreault. I think on a cup contender Cuylle is a 3rd liner, Lafreniere hasn’t proven a thing away from Panarin and as much as I like Perreault and think he has the upside to be excellent he’s still an unknown. Also I’m sorry but Miller still doesn’t really compare to the upper echelon #1 centers in the league who usually win the cup. Ideally he is slotted in behind an Eichel or McDavid. Especially when you take into account his age and likely age-related decline, by the time we have a contending roster Miller will be 33 or 34 and won’t be the player he is even today.

Don’t even get me started with the defense. But that roster doesn’t have what it takes.

Miller isn’t Barkov/McDavid/MacKinnon but he’s not Zibanejad either. He could be Eichel tier.

The problem with Miller is that he’s 32, we need a Miller who is 22.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Miller isn’t Barkov/McDavid/MacKinnon but he’s not Zibanejad either. He could be Eichel tier.

The problem with Miller is that he’s 32, we need a Miller who is 22.

He’s not even Eichel, Eichel is a better player in all aspects of the game, a legitimate two-way center who can score more than a PPG. Miller is not good defensively.

 

[Boris Zubov]

If the rangers are banking on Trocheck returning to form, Zibanejad returning to form, and Miller to be their #1 center all at the age of 32 and compete with the elite teams in the league, I’m afraid it’s not going to work out. Especially with the defense that they have assembled. Obviously things can change but I just don’t see a scenario where they can compete with the best without some substantial upgrades on the roster.

Also I know I’m going to get resistance on this, but Panarin is still a better player than J.T. Miller.

I've mentioned upgrading the top six several times in this thread, we're completely on the same page. I don't think it's a secret I'm not someone who thinks Mika is a key piece on a team that's serious about winning a Cup. Ideally Vinny is your 3rd line center, as well.

At this point it's really hard to call Panarin a better player than Miller. Miller does so much more away from the puck. Bread & his freelancing need to go elsewhere.

 

[mas0764]

He’s not even Eichel, Eichel is a better player in all aspects of the game, a legitimate two-way center who can score more than a PPG. Miller is not good defensively.

I would say Miller’s time in Vancouver is production wise very similar to Eichel’s career in Buffalo and Vegas.

 

[noncents]

Even if you like Zibanejad as a 1RW, that still leaves you short with Cuylle/Lafreniere/Perreault. I think on a cup contender Cuylle is a 3rd liner, Lafreniere hasn’t proven a thing away from Panarin and as much as I like Perreault and think he has the upside to be excellent he’s still an unknown. Also I’m sorry but Miller still doesn’t really compare to the upper echelon #1 centers in the league who usually win the cup. Ideally he is slotted in behind an Eichel or McDavid. Especially when you take into account his age and likely age-related decline, by the time we have a contending roster Miller will be 33 or 34 and won’t be the player he is even today.

Don’t even get me started with the defense. But that roster doesn’t have what it takes.

like i said we won PT and got to ECF last year with what i think is a worse roster than what i wrote out. to me you're saying "if i don't have the best on paper roster i dont have a shot" and that's not how i feel.

 

[mas0764]

Lightning could strike like the Blues and you could win it all but that’s very rare. You generally need a roster of a certain caliber and we don’t have it.

 

[DanielBrassard]

like i said we won PT and got to ECF last year with what i think is a worse roster than what i wrote out. to me you're saying "if i don't have the best on paper roster i dont have a shot" and that's not how i feel.

Made it to the ECF and got exposed by a legitimate team. Thats sort of the issue isn’t it. That forward group isn’t better than last season either in my opinion. But even if it is last season was not that good of a team anyway. That team had so much go their way. Elite special teams and a lot of comeback wins.