Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVII What will Santa Gorton bring us?

[East Coast Bias]

I want a top 3 pick 30 games into the season.
I want a TDL return 30 games into the season.
I want players traded for TDL returns, even if the buyers aren't yet offering that.
And I want it now!

 

[DutchShamrock]

Why is Zuccarello still here? According to Carp, the Rangers got an acceptable offer for Zuccarello at the 11th hour last February but Gorton was too busy finalizing the Tampa trade. The Rangers don’t have an AGM capable of negotiating the final trade details for a Zuccarello deal and conducting the trade conference call with the league? This is a billion dollar company. Anyone? Eugene Melnyk isn’t the owner.

Brooks wrote the Rangers didn’t want to move Zuccarello last summer because they didn’t want to ice a bad team. So they are going through the charade of a season with the plan of trading Zuccarello at the deadline. They better hope he is healthy. They have not talked contract with the player. The player airs his grievances with a Norweigan journalist and says his comments were taken out of context. Check the Post this morning. Dan Boyle’s friend Brett has the quotes.

Hayes? His name was mentioned at the last trade deadline too. The Rangers acquired Namestnikov and Spooner. They could have been short term hold the fort guys at center. The Rangers trade Hayes at the deadline. They have the 2 vets to buy time if the kids need more time.

Hayes is playing 20 minutes per minute now. The young guys are playing out of position and on the 4th line because they need Hayes to play 20 minutes per night. They have no plan for Andersson. Gorton sounded clueless in his comments last week.

The team should be getting healthy this week. What happens with Andersson? It’s either > than 10 minutes on the 4th line or riding the bus in the AHL. The Rangers don’t have a spot for him.

The Zuccarello quotes are damage control and PR. They are going to have a guy on the roster that was nearly traded, so they tell the media he's important and going to make us better. Its ego stroking.

Hayes is getting shopped, why does his usage seem strange? You seem to skip all the media quotes about his value being sky high on the market.

Gorton stumbles on camera in general. He plays it close, gives little. He sounds like there isn't a plan because there in fact is no plan or he isn't divulging info. But we aren't really in a position to draw conclusions.

You know all of this but you want Gorton look like he bungled certain aspects because he didn't nuke the team the way you want. You can't possibly think they are trying to be competitive. They kept zucc to be good this year as they trade McDonagh, Nash and Grabner? You know better but the obvious signs of icing a bad team hurt your narrative.

I'm sorry, I don't want to make an attack. But in one post above you slam them for not trying to bottom out, but also point out they are bottom 5.

 

[Off Sides]

...
Rantanen went 10th in 2015. The other guys were top 6 picks. The Rangers are going to end with a barely top 10 pick with their 5 shootout wins. I like Kravtsov. He has some Rantanen in him. Hopefully, Vitaly becomes that type of player for the Rangers. I like Chytil. The Rangers don't have anyone else.

I think you are seeing the Rangers give themselves at least some chance to get a Rantanen with picks in the #10 range. You say you like Kravtsov who was a #9, I'd probably add Chytil and Miller in there and they were #21 and #22. And that leaves out stuff like Andersson, Keane, Lundkvist, etc who could also factor in.

That is over only two drafts, if they continue with this sell off the pending UFA at the deadlines and the keep their own picks, their own picks and those they receive by selling at the very least are giving them some chances to get players like the ones mentioned. Maybe better should the lottery favor them.

I am hoping they just stay the course, I too am skeptical yet I don't see them really playing the be competitive and rebuild thing even if that is how they seem to want to phrase it and coach it.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Gorton is doing a fine job of keeping the team in a competitive fighting mode while not letting them be good enough to be certain of a playoff spot. I'd love to have a top 5 pick but I also think creating a losing culture in the team stunts the growth of young players on the team. So I'll make my prediction of how this plays out.
I think before the deadline, Hayes, Zuccarello,Mcquaid, Smith and Namestnicov are all moved. I think the bulk of the return will be picks with a couple of young players thrown in. At that point the team will be so devoid of talent we will spiral to the bottom of the league. I dont think theres any chance we have Zuc and Hayes here next year with the exception that if Zuc wants to come back after the season on a cheap short term contract.
To me this has been the plan since last year, I don't think they are getting away from it and patience will pay off imo.

 

[JohnC]

RangerBot’s whining is tiresome. Can’t make up his mind about what he wants out of the team’s direction.

Would it have been so hard to program him with a little less Elias sports bureau facts and with even a slight understanding of nuance?

 

[Off Sides]

Not sure I buy the losing culture thing, all the teams that drafted as high as they did, and used them to win Cup(s) received those picks because they were a losing culture to some extent.

I do buy they are keeping some vets around to shelter the kids, maybe mentor them and that type of stuff. As they are slowly sold off, some of them are on contracts no one wants or have clauses too, the youth hopefully will take on the more veteran roles.

In the mean time if they win the lottery or draft players that would have gone much earlier in a hypothetical redraft after a couple years had past, ... that is kind of what I am banking on at least.

 

[Avery16]

The Rangers traded McDonagh, Miller, Nash, Grabner, and Holden last season. That's a quarter of their roster, yet you're still complaining that they didn't trade even more players?

Do you ever take a step back and ask yourself: "Is this reasonable?"

You can't trade everyone. You need veterans, even if your goal is ultimately to tank. Throwing rookies into the deep end is a terrible strategy.

I'm not going to sit here an crucify Gorton because he didn't deal Zuccarello amid a flurry of last-minute activity involving a much larger trade (McDonagh). Zuccarello is a fan favorite and important player on the team. You need to be sure when you make those kinds of moves.

To this end, just look at Edmonton's lack of success since they started tanking a decade ago.

 

[Off Sides]

One of my pet peeves is comparing Edmonton to the Rangers.

Rangers market, ownership, financials more closely resemble, if not exceed any of Chicago, LA, Toronto, Washington, Boston, than they do to Edmonton, Arizona, etc.

 

[Avery16]

One of my pet peeves is comparing Edmonton to the Rangers.

Rangers market, ownership, financials more closely resemble, if not exceed any of Chicago, LA, Toronto, Washington, Boston, than they do to Edmonton, Arizona, etc.

Ok, but when's the last time any of those large market teams tanked

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Ok, but when's the last time any of those large market teams tanked

3 years ago?

 

[Avery16]

3 years ago?

Is this Toronto? I dont know how much that was a tank as it was a required post-Burke purge

 

[Kovalev27]

Ok, but when's the last time any of those large market teams tanked

Chicago LA Toronto all tanked and Chicago and LA are doing it all over again within what a 10 year span and multiple cups.

 

[Off Sides]

Ok, but when's the last time any of those large market teams tanked

I guess we'd have to define tanking versus rebuilding?

Like is it only a tank if the rebuild failed, or does any team that had several picks at or near the top of their draft for some amount of years also count as a tank?

 

[Avery16]

Chicago LA Toronto all tanked and Chicago and LA are doing it all over again within what a 10 year span and multiple cups.

When did Chicago and LA last tank? Not in the previous three seasons. They arent tanking now either. Their rosters are loaded with expensive vets. They just arent playing well. This was a discussion about icing a roster that only features rookies -no vets- during a rebuild. Tell me the last large market team that did this.

 

[Off Sides]

When did Chicago and LA last tank? Not in the previous three seasons. They arent tanking now either. Their rosters are loaded with expensive vets. They just arent playing well. This was a discussion about icing a roster that only features rookies -no vets- during a rebuild. Tell me the last large market team that did this.

Edmonton did not feature a roster that had all rookies or youth, for example in Hall's first couple seasons he had guys like Hemsky, Penner, Horcoff, Whitney, etc with him who were 27 or older and all that still lead to two subsequent #1 picks in the next two drafts. They eventually brought back Smyth.

 

[Webster]

If they decide to trade Zucc I think Gorton wants a 1st, a prospect and a ready defenseman. And he's probably going to get this, based on all the interest around the league according to the beat writers. It should be a great return.

Lets hope he goes to a team where he wants to sign long term as a free agent. I think the Cali teams are out of the question, and the desert dogs. Canada is okay, climate and way of life is much like Norway. And I know he's a McDavid fan..

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Is this Toronto? I dont know how much that was a tank as it was a required post-Burke purge

It is, but when they hired Shanahan he was very public and open about rebuilding the team and how it was going to be a multi-year process. I think it gets murky because there’s a prevailing idea on HF as a whole that rebuilding means trading everybody and handing the team completely over to prospects, where in reality it’s more of an accumulation/transition period

 

[Off Sides]

There is a lot too all this, but I think if one just reads the ownership, financial histories of the teams we are talking about, things like bankruptcy, the NHL running the team on shoestring in order to try to save them, ownership changes, arena deals, relocation... the comparisons even between how a team was run to how they were run after some large change reflects in their successes and failures more than is apparent off the get go. There is no simple, they tanked and still suck or they tanked and won, way to put it.

 

[Avery16]

It is, but when they hired Shanahan he was very public and open about rebuilding the team and how it was going to be a multi-year process. I think it gets murky because there’s a prevailing idea on HF as a whole that rebuilding means trading everybody and handing the team completely over to prospects, where in reality it’s more of an accumulation/transition period

Toronto was a difficult but successful rebuild in a relatively short time. I dont think they had much time or intent of tanking. They just had some anchor contracts to move thanks to Burke and some holes that couldnt be filled right away. Shanahan did a great job.

 

[Thirty One]

If they decide to trade Zucc I think Gorton wants a 1st, a prospect and a ready defenseman. And he's probably going to get this, based on all the interest around the league according to the beat writers.

Uh-uh. Sure.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

It is, but when they hired Shanahan he was very public and open about rebuilding the team and how it was going to be a multi-year process. I think it gets murky because there’s a prevailing idea on HF as a whole that rebuilding means trading everybody and handing the team completely over to prospects, where in reality it’s more of an accumulation/transition period

They already had Nylander,Gardiner and Reilly at that point though,they had been gaining higher picks for a few years before they "tanked".

 

[Ghost of jas]

Uh-uh. Sure.

When I see a post like this, I assume it’s in response to someone’s post I’m better off not seeing.

 

[Thirty One]

When I see a post like this, I assume it’s in response to someone’s post I’m better off not seeing.

Nope. I was just muttering to myself.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

If they decide to trade Zucc I think Gorton wants a 1st, a prospect and a ready defenseman. And he's probably going to get this, based on all the interest around the league according to the beat writers. It should be a great return.

Lets hope he goes to a team where he wants to sign long term as a free agent. I think the Cali teams are out of the question, and the desert dogs. Canada is okay, climate and way of life is much like Norway. And I know he's a McDavid fan..

I think it's highly unlikely that the Rangers obtain a 1st and a useful roster player in return for Zucc, but I can see why you would think it.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I think it's highly unlikely that the Rangers obtain a 1st and a useful roster player in return for Zucc, but I can see why you would think it.

I think it's a first and a decent prospect,more maybe if we have to hold some salary. I'd love to move him to Tampa somehow and possibly increase their chance of winning a cup this year.