Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVII What will Santa Gorton bring us?

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Again, patience. Trades will get done when they get done. Am I disappointed Zuccarello hasn’t been dealt yet? Of course, but I’m also disappointed it’s not June 21st and the Rangers are on the clock for a top five pick. This is a bad team. The worst is yet to come. Since the letter, Gorton has stuck to exactly what he said the Rangers would do. They didn’t trade picks and players for Karlsson like most of the hockey world expected. They didn’t sign Kovalchuk. They were never in the Tavares sweepstakes. They didn’t hire a retread for a head coach. They didn’t bolster the lineup with bad bottom six signings. They made their intentions clear on Hayes by not signing him long term. They got good value for their vets last year at the deadline. Perhaps Gorton feels he can get the value he wants closer to the deadline. Maybe the value he’s seeking for each player has not been met yet. I have been on board with this rebuild since the letter came out. People need to not rush the process.

Yeah, I pretty much agree. The Rangers, for the first time in my life (and I've been a fan since '86), are concentrating on stock piling assets and making sure they get the best years out of their players. I think the E. Staal trade and Shattenkirk signing were the last straw. That sort of stuff just doesn't work. Stockpiling assets and hoping to get lucky in the draft may not be the glamorous future some people want, but it's really too early in the process to do anything else.

 

[bobbop]

@RangerBoy has been pretty clear about what he wants. Rip out the walls down to the studs, trade everything of value, finish at the bottom and draft premium talent. Heck, he would even trade @Edge to the Winnipeg board for two young posters and a first.

I don’t find a lot of fault in what management has done. The last draft was excellent. Last years trades look good.Hayes has certainly built value for a trade this year. Kreider has a great start to the year but in my mind, he is wiggling back into that I’m not sure space. Zuc will have value once he demonstrates he is healthy.

Ranger Boy is entitled to his opinion and like all posters we should respect that opinion. And respectfully disagree if we so choose.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Toronto was a difficult but successful rebuild in a relatively short time. I dont think they had much time or intent of tanking. They just had some anchor contracts to move thanks to Burke and some holes that couldnt be filled right away. Shanahan did a great job.

They already had Nylander,Gardiner and Reilly at that point though,they had been gaining higher picks for a few years before they "tanked".

Well, the thing that made it successful was drafting Matthews, which they ensured they had a bad team by keeping Nylander off their roster for most of the year even though he was ready , trading Kessel in the off season, etc. If you go back and look at that 2015-16 roster, it’s absolutely one designed to tank (tanking teams always have a few good players), they had 2 players over 40 points, no one over 45

 

[Ghost of jas]

@RangerBoy has been pretty clear about what he wants. Rip out the walls down to the studs, trade everything of value, finish at the bottom and draft premium talent. Heck, he would even trade @Edge to the Winnipeg board for two young posters and a first.

I don’t find a lot of fault in what management has done. The last draft was excellent. Last years trades look good.Hayes has certainly built value for a trade this year. Kreider has a great start to the year but in my mind, he is wiggling back into that I’m not sure space. Zuc will have value once he demonstrates he is healthy.

Ranger Boy is entitled to his opinion and like all posters we should respect that opinion. And respectfully disagree if we so choose.

If @Edge has that type of value at this stage of his career, that deal has to be considered.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Well, the thing that made it successful was drafting Matthews, which they ensured they had a bad team by keeping Nylander off their roster for most of the year even though he was ready , trading Kessel in the off season, etc. If you go back and look at that 2015-16 roster, it’s absolutely one designed to tank (tanking teams always have a few good players), they had 2 players over 40 points, no one over 45

I just dont buy into their theory that the rebuild took a couple years, they were a crappy team for a decade, I don't think we are prepared to do something like that so I dont include them in the "tank" teams. Buffalo, Edmonton, Florida and Arizona are the tankers imo especially Edmonton and Buffalo who dumped everyone they could to race to the bottom. Buffalo was using a 4th string goalie or something like that.

 

[Webster]

That 1st pp unit should kick some butt..

 

[Off Sides]

I very much agree with the rip it down philosophy, I just think that unwinding everything takes time unless they are willing to take back cents on the possible dollar for everything. On top of that they have stuff that is not going to be easily moved, most of that will be gone or will go away naturally after the 2021 season.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

I just dont buy into their theory that the rebuild took a couple years, they were a crappy team for a decade, I don't think we are prepared to do something like that so I dont include them in the "tank" teams. Buffalo, Edmonton, Florida and Arizona are the tankers imo especially Edmonton and Buffalo who dumped everyone they could to race to the bottom. Buffalo was using a 4th string goalie or something like that.

Haven’t all those teams been bad for a decade too though?

 

[Irishguy42]

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I just dont buy into their theory that the rebuild took a couple years, they were a crappy team for a decade, I don't think we are prepared to do something like that so I dont include them in the "tank" teams. Buffalo, Edmonton, Florida and Arizona are the tankers imo.

So does applying the "tanker" label to the small-market/devoid of resource teams that can't get out of their own way make you feel better? Toronto, Chicago, LA, and Pittsburgh - the latter 3 the dominant teams of the post-lockout era all tanked and reaped the rewards, and Toronto is now starting to make noise.

Im not advocating tanking, but the last homegrown elite positional player for the Rangers was Brian Leetch - 30 years ago. That's the problem.

 

[Avery16]

I just dont buy into their theory that the rebuild took a couple years, they were a crappy team for a decade, I don't think we are prepared to do something like that so I dont include them in the "tank" teams. Buffalo, Edmonton, Florida and Arizona are the tankers imo especially Edmonton and Buffalo who dumped everyone they could to race to the bottom. Buffalo was using a 4th string goalie or something like that.

That, and they werent tanking. Burke made a number of risky contract moves with the intention of competing. It didnt work out, because Burke doesnt understand the game anymore. But you dont go for Phil Kessel in the middle of a "tank".

 

[I Eat Crow]

Send Andersson down to Hartford and let him play 20 minutes in all situations. He's gaining nothing playing 8-10 minutes a game on the 4th line.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Haven’t all those teams been bad for a decade too though?

Yes but what I'm saying i guess is that Toronto's quick turnaround wasnt that quick really. Toronto was trying to win for a lot of those years but they just werent good. Edmonton and buffalo especially were dumping players and making bad roster decisions to get McDavid.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Yeah, I pretty much agree. The Rangers, for the first time in my life (and I've been a fan since '86), are concentrating on stock piling assets and making sure they get the best years out of their players. I think the E. Staal trade and Shattenkirk signing were the last straw. That sort of stuff just doesn't work. Stockpiling assets and hoping to get lucky in the draft may not be the glamorous future some people want, but it's really too early in the process to do anything else.

I go back to ‘73. This approach is very foreign to most Ranger fans. It’s why I think we’re seeing a lot of mental contortions going on. It cannot be emphasized enough how early in this process the Rangers still are.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Send Andersson down to Hartford and let him play 20 minutes in all situations. He's gaining nothing playing 8-10 minutes a game on the 4th line.

I think they are keeping him here because at some point Zuc Hayes etc are leaving and its better to shelter him now and get him used to the league than to call him up after they are traded and throw him into the fire.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I go back to ‘73. This approach is very foreign to most Ranger fans. It’s why I think we’re seeing a lot of mental contortions going on. It cannot be emphasized enough how early in this process the Rangers still are.

It's a minimum of 3 years before we start to compete and probably 5 or 6 before we can dream of a cup.

 

[nyr__1994]

I think the next few years are going to be very interesting in terms how how teams are allocating their cap dollars. The good teams seem to be getting more and more top heavy in terms of how much they are paying each player. If your team is allocating most of your cap money to your top line and top D pairing, does that open up the opportunity for a team to run 4 real good balanced lines at you along with 3 good pairs of D with no great pair. Basically try to get your first two lines to play even with the top heavy teams and let your bottom pair and your 3rd and 4th lines feast on their matchup.

Just a thought, and curious to see a team try that approach instead of copying what has been done. Be a trendsetter. The NYR had it for a couple years and came pretty close to winning, just couldn't finish the job. Makes you wonder if that is what they are going for this time around, only with a little more talent throughout the lineup.

 

[Kovalev27]

At least he’s not playing with Mcleod and Lettieri. He’s playing with legit nhlers. That’s fine. The opportunity for more ice will be there soon.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I think the next few years are going to be very interesting in terms how how teams are allocating their cap dollars. The good teams seem to be getting more and more top heavy in terms of how much they are paying each player. If your team is allocating most of your cap money to your top line and top D pairing, does that open up the opportunity for a team to run 4 real good balanced lines at you along with 3 good pairs of D with no great pair. Basically try to get your first two lines to play even with the top heavy teams and let your bottom pair and your 3rd and 4th lines feast on their matchup.

Just a thought, and curious to see a team try that approach instead of copying what has been done. Be a trendsetter. The NYR had it for a couple years and came pretty close to winning, just couldn't finish the job. Makes you wonder if that is what they are going for this time around, only with a little more talent throughout the lineup.

I was thinking the same thing the other day but I'd prefer a really good top line and the rest average to offset money. I dont see how Toronto gets through the next couple of years. Imo if they dont get a cup in the next 2 years they may have missed their window.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Time to send Andersson back to Hartford.

 

[Webster]

Vesey on 4th line duty

And Strome knocks out Andersson...interesting. What's up with Lias? I was told he's the future Captain.

 

[Ghost of jas]

At least he’s not playing with Mcleod and Lettieri. He’s playing with legit nhlers. That’s fine. The opportunity for more ice will be there soon.

Umm...if you’re referring to Andersson, he’s the extra.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Yes but what I'm saying i guess is that Toronto's quick turnaround wasnt that quick really. Toronto was trying to win for a lot of those years but they just werent good. Edmonton and buffalo especially were dumping players and making bad roster decisions to get McDavid.

Yeah, I’m not saying it was all that quick of a turn around, I’m saying they consciously set a new direction, tanked and got rewarded and did what those other teams didn’t do and addressed their horrible goaltending situation with a guy that wasn’t a complete gamble

 

[Kovalev27]

Umm...if you’re referring to Andersson, he’s the extra.

Eeesh just saw the lines. Yeah def send him down. He couldn’t earn more icetime with 3 guys out now he’s if he’s an extra? Send him down.

 

[nyr__1994]

I was thinking the same thing the other day but I'd prefer a really good top line and the rest average to offset money. I dont see how Toronto gets through the next couple of years. Imo if they dont get a cup in the next 2 years they may have missed their window.

With how expensive those 2nd contracts are becoming for your top players it is dramatically shortening the window of having cheap, elite players like Chicago, LA and have all had. Chicago hasn't won since Kane and Toews signed those mega deals. Once Kopitar got his big contract has LA won? Pittsburgh has the best or 2nd best player in the game locked into a contract that teams cannot offer to players now that is 4 million under market value now and continues for another half dozen years....

Toronto is going to have half of their cap tied up on Tavares, Matthews, Nylander and Marner next year. I just have a hard time seeing how you can build a team around that. That's why I think it is going to get interesting....