Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVII - Want some, get some

[offdacrossbar]

you move kreider to a team like colorado and they become one forward closer to a stanley cup final.

that team is dying to win and has the roster to do just that if you add a kreider.

having lost rant and land both to injuries, this team knows a guy like kreider is good insurance and would make that top 9 formidable.

no question you could trade and extend kreider, who doesnt like denver ?

could we pry away alex newhook ? i prefer that play to another 1st rounder. newhook is perhaps another season at BC away from playing a 2C.

 

[RGY]

I love Brassard but I didn’t like the fit. I completely agree with Boyle though.

I think they planned on LA, Howden, and Strome filling out the center spot behind Zibanejad and Chytil. Unfortunately, the experiment hasn’t played out wonderfully with LA or Howden. Strome seems to compliment Panarin well so I like them on the wings with Chytil in the middle. I don’t mind Smith on the 4th line, but I wish they had upgrades for Nieves and Haley who are both AHL players to me. They could be 13th forwards, but I hate seeing them play every day.

Well this was part of my argument for Brassard or Boyle during the offseason in which I was met with a lot of criticism. The Rangers were banking on those two very young forwards BOTH being at least serviceable. Neither have been. Howden has been worse and somehow has managed to keep his current role. He has to have some dirt on DQ at this point because he has flat out been terrible, providing AHL level quality play. He should be down in Hartford working on his game. But the concept was to have either Brassard/Boyle as a safety net that could displace them if they were not succeeding, which they have not, to provide more depth which we are lacking with a severely insufficient 4th line, and being able to slide up and down the lineup. Veteran forwards who know the organization and city.

But like I said, its a damn shame.

 

[Trxjw]

The story is that the Avs walked away from a Kreider deal at the draft because Newhook was available. If they weren't interested in giving up Newhook for a full year of Kreider, I can't imagine they'd want to do it for 2 months of Kreider. I think we should all let that dream die.

I'm sure the Rangers would love to get a really good prospect or good young NHL player for Kreider, but that's not really a rental price. Hall being on the market further complicates things. Gorton probably isn't looking forward to being the guy teams circle back to while trying to land Hall or after missing out on him.

 

[RGY]

I agree with you in regards to the “miles” argument. I think that’s mostly BS that sounds good. Idk, does a kid who played college hockey for 4 years playing fewer games have a longer career than someone who played in the CHL then transitioned to the AHL at 20 thus playing a ton more games? What about that kid playing professional hockey in the KHL at 18 or 19? I could be wrong but I doubt “mileage” is a factor. Injuries or lack of talent? Sure.

What is good? He hasn’t had any serious injuries to this point that I’m aware of, he’s in a tier above Zuccarello, and maybe most importantly, he does have a real knack for avoiding big hits. I think he’ll age at a rate closer to a guy like MSL. The last year or two could be tough but I really do think he’ll perform at a high rate through the length of most of the deal. To be honest, I wouldn’t have signed him, but after watching him I’m much more optimistic and I’d be glad to be proven wrong.

All of this is why it is an Apples and Oranges argument if he is seriously going to try and compare Zucc to Panarin.

Grasping at straws at this point. Still campaigning about the Panarin signing I see. Then also tried to use a very small group of 2-3 people that would consider trading Trouba before his NMC to represent a general consensus.

I had respected RB’s opinion a number of years ago, always on top of the news, but he will go to such great lengths to drive his views home as truth and fact when they just aren’t. They are all theoretical.

 

[motopanekeku]

Well this was part of my argument for Brassard or Boyle during the offseason in which I was met with a lot of criticism. The Rangers were banking on those two very young forwards BOTH being at least serviceable. Neither have been. Howden has been worse and somehow has managed to keep his current role. He has to have some dirt on DQ at this point because he has flat out been terrible, providing AHL level quality play. He should be down in Hartford working on his game. But the concept was to have either Brassard/Boyle as a safety net that could displace them if they were not succeeding, which they have not, to provide more depth which we are lacking with a severely insufficient 4th line, and being able to slide up and down the lineup. Veteran forwards who know the organization and city.

But like I said, its a damn shame.

We are not trying to win this year we are in the middle of sorting out prospects. Too early to sign vet depth forwards.

 

[NYR Viper]

He s 3rd on the team in hits. Behind Trouba and Lemieux.

Crazy to think about how soft this team would be overall if they hadn't been able to snag both WPG guys...

The story is that the Avs walked away from a Kreider deal at the draft because Newhook was available. If they weren't interested in giving up Newhook for a full year of Kreider, I can't imagine they'd want to do it for 2 months of Kreider. I think we should all let that dream die.

I'm sure the Rangers would love to get a really good prospect or good young NHL player for Kreider, but that's not really a rental price. Hall being on the market further complicates things. Gorton probably isn't looking forward to being the guy teams circle back to while trying to land Hall or after missing out on him.

I think Newhook is off the table, but I'd be intrigued by someone like Jost and their 1st this year (which will probably be 24-31)

 

[True Blue]

Can anyone tell me he is worth 5m aav today? 6m? 7m?

Because he is a top line player and that is the going rate?

I am not advocating for a $7m deal. But given what he brings to the team and what he means in the locker room, if he was willing to take a hometown discount and be on the other side of the rebuild, I would be all for it. I think that is what it comes down to. Is it important enough to play for the only team he has ever played for and where he is a leader? If he is willing to make a reasonable deal, I believe he stays. If he wants to get paid top dollar, he goes.

 

[True Blue]

Chris Kreider is on pace for 19 goals and 41 points. The Rangers aren't getting good players for a rental.

If you believe that he is streaky, then his hot streak is still coming which will likely put his numbers in line with his career.

Going rate for rentals seems to be a 1st and a B-B+ prospect.

 

[True Blue]

The thing I worry about with Panarin is Quinn. I have no doubt Quinn, who is trying to win games at any cost, is going to play him more minutes than he should be and wear him down.

That cannot be a worry for a player that most consider elite. Of course he is going to be one of the horses that gets ridden. As well he should be.

 

[RGY]

We are not trying to win this year we are in the middle of sorting out prospects. Too early to sign vet depth forwards.

How much would have it cost to have that insurance? To insulate the kids? Have you seen how DQ coaches? How management has voiced their cautious optimism, but really you can read between the lines and know they would like to take a step forward making the playoffs. This team is absolutely trying to win. Having veteran depth does not stunt the development of your young kids especially when they showed they shouldn’t be at the NHL level right now.

We already sent down Lias. Howden should be sent down so he can develop his game in Hartford, but we don’t have better options than him. So in fact, not having a Boyle is hurting Howden’s development because he is being forced into a situation not favorable to him. And by the same token, having that depth that allows you to send Howden down or even to the 4th line with a limited role to work on his game/adjustments also doesnt force you to over play your Top 2 lines.

It was a mistake and now theyre paying for it having to ice Smith, Haley, McKegg, Nieves on the carousel that is the 4th line.

 

[LokiDog]

Wish we could fit Boone Jenner but I dont think thats happening.

Josh Anderson is the more likely target.

Jenner is signed for 2 more years after this at 3.75 and provides veteran presence. Anderson is an RFA likely seeking a raise. I’m not sure Jenner would be harder to fit and I wonder if Columbus would be more ready to move him than a young guy like Anderson whose value is at an all time low. Between the two I’d rather have Jenner for this team, honestly. Veteran, big physical presence. Can play anywhere in the lineup, penalty kill, excellent on face offs. He can slot on our top line to provide grit opposite Panarin or anchor a physical third line. Anderson is a risk because he only had one big season, wants a raise and will likely take a lot to pry away.

 

[motopanekeku]

How much would have it cost to have that insurance? To insulate the kids? Have you seen how DQ coaches? How management has voiced their cautious optimism, but really you can read between the lines and know they would like to take a step forward making the playoffs. This team is absolutely trying to win. Having veteran depth does not stunt the development of your young kids especially when they showed they shouldn’t be at the NHL level right now.

We already sent down Lias. Howden should be sent down so he can develop his game in Hartford, but we don’t have better options than him. So in fact, not having a Boyle is hurting Howden’s development because he is being forced into a situation not favorable to him. And by the same token, having that depth that allows you to send Howden down or even to the 4th line with a limited role to work on his game/adjustments also doesnt force you to over play your Top 2 lines.

It was a mistake and now theyre paying for it having to ice Smith, Haley, McKegg, Nieves on the carousel that is the 4th line.

I see your point but I still think it's at least an off-season too early.

 

[LokiDog]

How much would have it cost to have that insurance? To insulate the kids? Have you seen how DQ coaches? How management has voiced their cautious optimism, but really you can read between the lines and know they would like to take a step forward making the playoffs. This team is absolutely trying to win. Having veteran depth does not stunt the development of your young kids especially when they showed they shouldn’t be at the NHL level right now.

We already sent down Lias. Howden should be sent down so he can develop his game in Hartford, but we don’t have better options than him. So in fact, not having a Boyle is hurting Howden’s development because he is being forced into a situation not favorable to him. And by the same token, having that depth that allows you to send Howden down or even to the 4th line with a limited role to work on his game/adjustments also doesnt force you to over play your Top 2 lines.

It was a mistake and now theyre paying for it having to ice Smith, Haley, McKegg, Nieves on the carousel that is the 4th line.

Agree completely. It doesn’t matter if we’re competing or not. Cheap stop gap vets on one year deals would have been preferable to McKegg and Haley. Maroon, Boyle, Brassard were all available deep into summer. Brassard signed for 1.2, Boyle for 940k, Maroon for 900k.

 

[RGY]

Jenner is signed for 2 more years after this at 3.75 and provides veteran presence. Anderson is an RFA likely seeking a raise. I’m not sure Jenner would be harder to fit and I wonder if Columbus would be more ready to move him than a young guy like Anderson whose value is at an all time low. Between the two I’d rather have Jenner for this team, honestly. Veteran, big physical presence. Can play anywhere in the lineup, penalty kill, excellent on face offs. He can slot on our top line to provide grit opposite Panarin or anchor a physical third line. Anderson is a risk because he only had one big season, wants a raise and will likely take a lot to pry away.

I do really like the idea of Jenner. He has versatility in that he can move up and down the lineup.

If we are a bubble team at the deadline, I would be interested in selling high on Strome if he keeps producing and if the price is right because if it isnt fair value we could just hang onto and revisit a trade in the offseason as he collects more points and find a team that is desperate after getting knocked out in the playoffs due to lack of offense...and then turning around and acquiring Jenner who plays a more physical style. You’d be saving on the cap hit from what Strome would make and you would make the team more diverse and tougher to play against. You hope that you won’t need Strome’s production as much with players like Kakko and Chytil providing that moving forward.

 

[LokiDog]

I do really like the idea of Jenner. He has versatility in that he can move up and down the lineup.

If we are a bubble team at the deadline, I would be interested in selling high on Strome if he keeps producing and if the price is right because if it isnt fair value we could just hang onto and revisit a trade in the offseason as he collects more points and find a team that is desperate after getting knocked out in the playoffs due to lack of offense...and then turning around and acquiring Jenner who plays a more physical style. You’d be saving on the cap hit from what Strome would make and you would make the team more diverse and tougher to play against. You hope that you won’t need Strome’s production as much with players like Kakko and Chytil providing that moving forward.

Absolutely. I love that Jenner could be a fixture on the third line playing a shutdown role, penalty killing, being a face off ace and bringing a lot more grit to the team and I also think he could have bigger point totals than we’re used to seeing if we slot him up with Panarin or use him in front of the net on the PP. He definitely has offensive tools but has settled into that shutdown role. I think he could be a 50 point player still.

 

[NYR Viper]

I do really like the idea of Jenner. He has versatility in that he can move up and down the lineup.

If we are a bubble team at the deadline, I would be interested in selling high on Strome if he keeps producing and if the price is right because if it isnt fair value we could just hang onto and revisit a trade in the offseason as he collects more points and find a team that is desperate after getting knocked out in the playoffs due to lack of offense...and then turning around and acquiring Jenner who plays a more physical style. You’d be saving on the cap hit from what Strome would make and you would make the team more diverse and tougher to play against. You hope that you won’t need Strome’s production as much with players like Kakko and Chytil providing that moving forward.

Just wait and sign Zack Kassian in the off-season. Hopefully he will be looking for a reasonable contract.

That assumes the Rangers don't bring in a big body or two at the deadline or off-season through other trades.

I'm still a fan of looking at Lawson Crouse as a piece in return for Kreider

 

[Deleted member 23124]

Maroon, Boyle, Brassard were all available deep into summer. Brassard signed for 1.2, Boyle for 940k, Maroon for 900k.

But we don't know if those contracts are what they were asking for or what they settled for to stay in the NHL....I'm betting on the latter.

 

[RGY]

Just wait and sign Zack Kassian in the off-season. Hopefully he will be looking for a reasonable contract.

That assumes the Rangers don't bring in a big body or two at the deadline or off-season through other trades.

I'm still a fan of looking at Lawson Crouse as a piece in return for Kreider

I just don’t think Kassian is a good player at all. He has benefited significantly from playing with the elite players in Edmonton. He isn’t quick and I wouldn’t want him on the PK, which is a role Jenner could provide and where we need help right now.

Jenner and Josh Andersson are my targets.

Crouse isnt a bad option. Not sure who else might be out there. Hathaway wouldve been a good signing for us.

 

[LokiDog]

Just wait and sign Zack Kassian in the off-season. Hopefully he will be looking for a reasonable contract.

That assumes the Rangers don't bring in a big body or two at the deadline or off-season through other trades.

I'm still a fan of looking at Lawson Crouse as a piece in return for Kreider

I don’t like Kassian. He’s serviceable but he’s not versatile. Sure he can bring physicality and we could glue him to Panarin and Zib and hope to replicate what he has with McD and Drai but I wouldn’t bank on it. Jenner brings a 55% face off guy, more raw talent, more imposing physicality and a ton of versatility. I definitely would look at Crouse. He’s still young and can definitely breakout. He isn’t having a bad year and he’d find opportunity here. He could end up a gritty checker who can add some offense, but he also could find his scoring touch and slot up the lineup. Big fan of that idea.

 

[LokiDog]

But we don't know if those contracts are what they were asking for or what they settled for to stay in the NHL....I'm betting on the latter.

Of course, but once it got that late and they were desperate for contracts I’d have been offering the same. I’d have waived and demoted Haley or McKegg in a heartbeat to replace them with Boyle or Maroon.

 

[RGY]

But we don't know if those contracts are what they were asking for or what they settled for to stay in the NHL....I'm betting on the latter.

I am very confused by the point you are trying to make here.

The fact is those salaries are what they ended up getting and what we could have had them for. It doesnt matter what they might have wanted because they didnt get it.

 

[LokiDog]

I just don’t think Kassian is a good player at all. He has benefited significantly from playing with the elite players in Edmonton. He isn’t quick and I wouldn’t want him on the PK, which is a role Jenner could provide and where we need help right now.

Jenner and Josh Andersson are my targets.

Crouse isnt a bad option. Not sure who else might be out there. Hathaway wouldve been a good signing for us.

Agree on everything. I liked Hathaway as an option as well.

 

[NYR Viper]

Jenner is signed for 2 more years after this at 3.75 and provides veteran presence. Anderson is an RFA likely seeking a raise. I’m not sure Jenner would be harder to fit and I wonder if Columbus would be more ready to move him than a young guy like Anderson whose value is at an all time low. Between the two I’d rather have Jenner for this team, honestly. Veteran, big physical presence. Can play anywhere in the lineup, penalty kill, excellent on face offs. He can slot on our top line to provide grit opposite Panarin or anchor a physical third line. Anderson is a risk because he only had one big season, wants a raise and will likely take a lot to pry away.

So I think most people would like Jenner but let's take a look at him specifically:

1) He is 26, will be 27 by next year
2) He's a big, bruising power forward
3) He has been, pretty consistently, hovering around 35-38 points his entire career
4) He has (2) more years beyond this one @ $3.75m

Power forward generally don't age all that well. So would the Rangers be smart in re-signing him in 2 years time, when he will be 29, to another 3-4 year deal? if the answer is no, I would shy away from him as the team is still building over the next couple of years.

Considering he is already 26 and has never eclipsed 50 points (one season of 49 which appears to be an aberration), I'd say the expectation should be about 35 points.

I like the idea of a guy like Jenner, but him specifically, at least to me, seems like the wrong target.

Now Josh Andersson makes more sense to me. He's 25 and in need of a RFA contract after this season. So they could, conceivably, re-sign him to a 4-5 year deal that takes him to 30-31. They'd avoid the 31-34 year old seasons they would most likely have to stomach should they acquire and re-sign a guy like Jenner.

 

[RangersFan1994]

I do really like the idea of Jenner. He has versatility in that he can move up and down the lineup.

If we are a bubble team at the deadline, I would be interested in selling high on Strome if he keeps producing and if the price is right because if it isnt fair value we could just hang onto and revisit a trade in the offseason as he collects more points and find a team that is desperate after getting knocked out in the playoffs due to lack of offense...and then turning around and acquiring Jenner who plays a more physical style. You’d be saving on the cap hit from what Strome would make and you would make the team more diverse and tougher to play against. You hope that you won’t need Strome’s production as much with players like Kakko and Chytil providing that moving forward.

I would love Jenner over Anderson but would take Anderson if signed and if someone else (a younger player like Emil Bemstrom) came back in the trade

Jenner and Bemstrom to NYR
Andersson and 2ed in 2021 to the Jackets?

 

[LokiDog]

So I think most people would like Jenner but let's take a look at him specifically:

1) He is 26, will be 27 by next year
2) He's a big, bruising power forward
3) He has been, pretty consistently, hovering around 35-38 points his entire career
4) He has (2) more years beyond this one @ $3.75m

Power forward generally don't age all that well. So would the Rangers be smart in re-signing him in 2 years time, when he will be 29, to another 3-4 year deal? if the answer is no, I would shy away from him as the team is still building over the next couple of years.

Considering he is already 26 and has never eclipsed 50 points (one season of 49 which appears to be an aberration), I'd say the expectation should be about 35 points.

I like the idea of a guy like Jenner, but him specifically, at least to me, seems like the wrong target.

Now Josh Andersson makes more sense to me. He's 25 and in need of a RFA contract after this season. So they could, conceivably, re-sign him to a 4-5 year deal that takes him to 30-31. They'd avoid the 31-34 year old seasons they would most likely have to stomach should they acquire and re-sign a guy like Jenner.

I think Jenner’s numbers took a hit when the Jackets built a contender. They had guys like Foligno, Atkinson, Panarin, Dubois, Duchene, etc. playing in the top six and Jenner is a great shut down center. I think on a team like the Rangers that is juggling lines a lot he could put up 40-50 points, but if he stays in that 35-40 range he won’t cost a lot to re-sign so he wouldn’t be an anchor contract if he started to decline. I also don’t think he will as he’s a pretty consistent, physical specimen. Established veterans are needed to lead the team and he’s definitely a leader who can play throughout the lineup. Even if he’s just a ~40 point third line center who PKs and adds a ton of grit, I’m not too afraid of re-signing him. I don’t think he’d be expensive. And I do think he’d do great banging in trash on the PP.