Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVII - Want some, get some

[Fitzy]

I hate the term 'Hockey trade'

They're all hockey trades. All of them.

(Sorry, the star wars spoilers have me in a terrible mood)

 

[effen]

Brian Gibbons would have been a nice pickup off waivers. Nic Petan was on there too, should have been claimed.

We're also talking about being better than Michael Haley. This isn't that difficult of a task.

Gibbons is terrible and I'd take Haley over him 100 times out of 100. The Rangers already had him in the org to boot.

Petan is ? but I can understand not grabbing yet another non-physical smurf to play grinder minutes. Lines have roles and objectives, you cant just plug in a 74 OV because he's 'better' than a 72 OV.

Neither of those are markedly better than Haley, AHL numbers be damned.

 

[LokiDog]

Sure. I do think in the next 18 months there will be a skilled-for-tougher trade with Buch or a Buch-type to add a different element to the roster. The trade-off with that is the tougher typically comes with worse counting stats.

I agree that we will see that type of trade in the window you predict. I just have a hard time pulling that trigger right now with Anderson having a very poor start. If he picks it up I could pull the trigger by February, I’m just hesitant to trade a guy who is a year younger while the two look to be trending in different directions. I get that Anderson is a potential buy low candidate right now but I’d like to see a bit more positive before being comfortable moving a 24 year old on a 60 point pace. We haven’t exactly grown those on trees historically.

 

[LORDE]

I hate the term 'Hockey trade'

They're all hockey trades. All of them.

(Sorry, the star wars spoilers have me in a terrible mood)

Same thing we do every night Pinky...

 

[egelband]

Is Lazar on waivers right now? He was just demoted by Buffalo but don’t know if he is exempt since he was waived earlier in the year.

Lol, I know I will get some ridicule for this, but I just think it’s such a bad decision by Gorton to have a team with an old fart alibi goon on it like Haley instead of gambling on a kid like Lazar.

Lazar has outscored Chytil in the AHL (edit: almost ) and he is just as tough as Brendan Lemieux. Give a hungry kid like that a shot. I don’t get it.

He isn’t ‘objectively’ a good NHL player. But these guys — can — really come alive if they are put in a position where they can play to their strengths and can get that feeling where the entire team feeds of their energy an physical play. And the kid isn’t without talent even if he is to square to be a solid top 6 forward in the NHL everything else aside. He got strong straight ahead speed, a good shot, good hands and so forth.

Lazar? He’s good but doesn’t really fit the Rangers window...

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

What do you think he signs for? This is his last chance for a big pay day, he's not taking a hometown discount for 4 years

I have no idea but neither do you. Pacioretty, van Riemsdyk, Shattenkirk all took less money to play where they wanted to play.

 

[Minmonster]

Montreal is in a free fall and need to shake things up. Poehling and a 3rd for krieder. Or for kean and Andersson

 

[motopanekeku]

I hate the term 'Hockey trade'

They're all hockey trades. All of them.

(Sorry, the star wars spoilers have me in a terrible mood)

People use the term to differentiate between trades that are related to salary caps or other periphery and trades that are for the purpose of affecting the rosters of both teams. You probably know this already but I was also annoyed with the term until I came to the above realization..

 

[GAGLine]

I have no idea but neither do you. Pacioretty, van Riemsdyk, Shattenkirk all took less money to play where they wanted to play.

They did. Shattenkirk signed for 4 years and was bought out after 2. Yes, we needed the cap space, but he didn't live up to the contract either. van Riemsdyk has 5 goals and 11 points in 26 games. We'll see if how much they like the contract in a year or two.

Patches is doing really well this year, but his numbers were down the 2 years prior, which is why he didn't get a longer term deal.

It's certainly possible that Kreider will sign a shorter team deal, but that still doesn't mean it will be a good contract.

 

[NYR Viper]

I hate the term 'Hockey trade'

They're all hockey trades. All of them.

(Sorry, the star wars spoilers have me in a terrible mood)

yeah, but are they REALLY hockey trades? I mean, REALLY?

 

[RangerBoy]

Because at some point you have to stop trading and start constructing the right team. They just gave out big money to Panarin and Trouba. Zib is another year older. They have a ton of money coming off the books within two years. How many more years do you think they settle for not making the playoffs? I get you think you know best, that's cool. There's more than one perspective though. Then again you were *****ing when the signed Panarin and traded for Trouba, so.

Kreider's next contract is a disaster waiting for whichever gives the contract. Dave Maloney on the Rangers pre-game show before the Devils game was discussing Hall, Kreider and Krug all being free agents this coming summer. All of them will be 29 when their next contract starts and those are very risky contracts.

Maloney said the same thing at the end of last season when he was discussing Panarin with Giannone on their podcast. He doesn't mention that anymore.

There is a lot of time to discuss the Panarin contract. He is playing well right now. Let us see how well Panarin is playing 2 years from now when the Rangers young players are starting to hit their strides and Panarin is 30. It's a 7 year contract. How many prime years will the Rangers get out of that contract with the Rangers being a legit Cup contender?

Is Trouba playing like an $8M AAV player? 7 years. $56M. There are people proposing the Rangers trade Trouba before his NMC kicks in.

 

[Fitzy]

Same thing we do every night Pinky...

I'm running very low on stable genius avatars.

 

[NYR Viper]

Kreider's next contract is a disaster waiting for whichever gives the contract. Dave Maloney on the Rangers pre-game show before the Devils game was discussing Hall, Kreider and Krug all being free agents this coming summer. All of them will be 29 when their next contract starts and those are very risky contracts.

Maloney said the same thing at the end of last season when he was discussing Panarin with Giannone on their podcast. He doesn't mention that anymore.

There is a lot of time to discuss the Panarin contract. He is playing well right now. Let us see how well Panarin is playing 2 years from now when the Rangers young players are starting to hit their strides and Panarin is 30. It's a 7 year contract. How many prime years will the Rangers get out of that contract with the Rangers being a legit Cup contender?

Is Trouba playing like an $8M AAV player? 7 years. $56M. There are people proposing the Rangers trade Trouba before his NMC kicks in.

Anyone recommending trading Trouba is silly. his contract is right in line with where it should be and will look like more of a steal as the cap goes up over time.

I agree on Kreider. You pay the premium talent

 

[wafflepadsave]

The net-front presence he brings every nights. Especially on the PP. However, that's probably the most easily-repeatable skill. He's at his best when he's skating around like a wrecking ball, winning battles, forcing the play with his speed. It has always seemed like he'll go through prolonged stretches where he's not really causing any disruption with his speed or his size. And in turn, he's not exactly effective.

I like Kreider and would gladly keep him at the right price. But IMO, he's one of the streakiest players we've had in recent memory.

I wonder if he’s better at say checkers (which is a lower testosterone game).

 

[Trxjw]

Let's take a step back even further. From the Rangers perspective the question more or less is whether to keep or move one of Kreider or Buchnevich based on their expected future performance and cap cost. IMHO moving Kreider makes more sense based on several factor. I can also readily acknowledge that moving Kreider would result in the team's losing some valuable elements of his game - specifically goal scoring, speed and physicality. However, I'm completely baffled by the suggestion that if the Ranger were to move Kreider then they should use Buchnevich to replace him. The net of these two moves is a big negative (even if you consider draft picks coming our way) to the team that is getting ready to come out of rebuild.

I'd be surprised to see the Rangers move both Kreider and Buchnevich, but stranger things have happened. Stands to reason that if they both went then the Rangers are either getting a top-six forward back in one of the trades, or they have one lined up in a separate deal. Seems like a lot of unnecessary movement but we really don't know what the long-term plan is. If they decide internally that Zib, Panarin, Kakko, Chytil, and Strome are going to be 5 of their top-six guys going forward, then maybe Buchnevich does get freed up along with Kreider to fill other holes.

We focus quite a bit on particular roles but in addition to a Kreider-like winger, but I think the Rangers would probably like to add another LHD to the mix as well. Someone in the 22-24 range who can maybe take some of the pressure off Hajek and Lindgren and create more competition.

 

[kovazub94]

I'd be surprised to see the Rangers move both Kreider and Buchnevich, but stranger things have happened. Stands to reason that if they both went then the Rangers are either getting a top-six forward back in one of the trades, or they have one lined up in a separate deal. Seems like a lot of unnecessary movement but we really don't know what the long-term plan is. If they decide internally that Zib, Panarin, Kakko, Chytil, and Strome are going to be 5 of their top-six guys going forward, then maybe Buchnevich does get freed up along with Kreider to fill other holes.

We focus quite a bit on particular roles but in addition to a Kreider-like winger, but I think the Rangers would probably like to add another LHD to the mix as well. Someone in the 22-24 range who can maybe take some of the pressure off Hajek and Lindgren and create more competition.

Well, hopefully Gorton & Co view Strome for what he is - a good caliber 3rd line utility forward able to go to top-6 if there's chemistry or necessity. If this is a case (as I don't have reasons to believe it is not) I just doubt they will try to jump through the hoops when they have a very good, young top-6 forward already in place in Buchnevich.

With respect to D, I completely agree that they are currently missing a major piece - a creative, high-end offensive LD to play with Trouba. IMHO Miller is too far removed from being an NHL, let alone a 1st pair D. Very disappointed that we don't get to see Rykov due to unfortunate injury this season and there's only just an outside chance that Reunanen could come and immediately contribute next season.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Omg not this Lazar shit again.

 

[EpicDing]

Omg not this Lazar **** again.

It's reaching Nakladl levels

 

[pld459666]

Selling low on Anderson is doing anyone a favor

Selling low and still getting a better player?

Dont think you are getting more for a non-slumping Josh Anderson.

All things being equal, I take Buch over Anderson all day every day.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

It's reaching Nakladl levels

RIP to silverfish

 

[pld459666]

Anderson's skillset is significantly more difficult to acquire and his best season is better than Buchnevich's.

If they're both 50 point wingers (seems reasonable) than taking the softer (by a lot) one is a bold strategy.

It's not his skill set that's difficult to acquire.

It's the combination of that skill set, however limited and his size that help make him somewhat unique.

That said, Anderson scores, historically at less than .5pts per game in 260 games. Buch is over .5pts per game in 50 less games.

Buch is clearly the better point producer whereas Amderson would be our best N/S player

To me, it's close, but I'd want a bit more with Anderson for Buch

 

[pld459666]

Kreider's next contract is a disaster waiting for whichever gives the contract. Dave Maloney on the Rangers pre-game show before the Devils game was discussing Hall, Kreider and Krug all being free agents this coming summer. All of them will be 29 when their next contract starts and those are very risky contracts.

Maloney said the same thing at the end of last season when he was discussing Panarin with Giannone on their podcast. He doesn't mention that anymore.

There is a lot of time to discuss the Panarin contract. He is playing well right now. Let us see how well Panarin is playing 2 years from now when the Rangers young players are starting to hit their strides and Panarin is 30. It's a 7 year contract. How many prime years will the Rangers get out of that contract with the Rangers being a legit Cup contender?

Is Trouba playing like an $8M AAV player? 7 years. $56M. There are people proposing the Rangers trade Trouba before his NMC kicks in.

I think we are going to be getting 5-6 years of 70-90 point production from Panarin.

I harken back to the lack of NA hockey miles on his legs.

Hes 28 and has ONLY 4 full seasons under his belt while hes working on his 5th season.

Typical elite talent like him are playing from at the very least their age 20 season, most elite talents like this, from the age of 18.

I think he was a great signing and believe he will buck the trend of players fading once they hit 30yo

 

[The New Russian Five]

I think we are going to be getting 5-6 years of 70-90 point production from Panarin.

I harken back to the lack of NA hockey miles on his legs.

Hes 28 and has ONLY 4 full seasons under his belt while hes working on his 5th season.

Typical elite talent like him are playing from at the very least their age 20 season, most elite talents like this, from the age of 18.

I think he was a great signing and believe he will buck the trend of players fading once they hit 30yo

He also very rarely takes a hit. He's a bit of a perimeter player (though he isn't afraid to go into the dirty areas if he has too). But his combination of quickness and skill make it so hard for defenders to actually play physical against him. I don't think I've actually seen him get hit this season. Players like that tend to age a lot slower.

 

[JimmyG89]

Kreider is very unique to the point where his skillset is impossible to find in another player. Very few have that size and speed.

The thing is, we don't need a replica or anything like that. We do need someone who can skate well and have size.

His biggest downside is his puck skills. I'll gladly take someone not as fast but is a better passer and can be a net front. Those are hard to find too. Might need to be drafted. Big wingers usually go in the top 10, unless you get lucky and find one later.

It's a long shot, but someone like Barron could be that kind of player. He has puck skills and size, just not the speed of a Kreider. Let's see him in 18 months or so and where he is. Might be able to make a jump from NCAA to the NHL, but most likely some AHL time is needed, maybe even a full season. Just don't rush him.

 

[Trxjw]

Well, hopefully Gorton & Co view Strome for what he is - a good caliber 3rd line utility forward able to go to top-6 if there's chemistry or necessity. If this is a case (as I don't have reasons to believe it is not) I just doubt they will try to jump through the hoops when they have a very good, young top-6 forward already in place in Buchnevich.

With respect to D, I completely agree that they are currently missing a major piece - a creative, high-end offensive LD to play with Trouba. IMHO Miller is too far removed from being an NHL, let alone a 1st pair D. Very disappointed that we don't get to see Rykov due to unfortunate injury this season and there's only just an outside chance that Reunanen could come and immediately contribute next season.

Well I think it's clear that he has chemistry with Panarin but it's tough to say how the Rangers value him. If they think he's a 60 point winger riding shotgun to Panarin and Chytil that they can lock up for $4m per for 4 more years? I could honestly see them taking that chance. Maybe Kravtsov or another guy comes in and outplays him and you can trade him or move him down the lineup without it being a major hindrance to the cap mechanics.

I think between the guys they have in the pipe and at the pro level right now, there are a number of really promising options for 2nd and 3rd pair LHD. Miller is the guy who seems to have top pairing upside. Perhaps Robertson as well. Both are at least 2-3 years away, IMO. I think you're right that a dynamic partner for Trouba would go a long way. I don't think Skjei has a the hockey IQ to be the Rangers version of Josh Morrisey, but maybe that guy is out there.