Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVII - Want some, get some

[Ola]

DQ’s 4th line is a joke. All other teams carry hockey players on their 4th. We lead the league by a wide margin in fighting majors. Facts are that we have as many fighting majors as MTL, CBJ, Ari, WPG, Minny, Dallas and Edmonton have COMBINED.

It’s also a downright crappy job by Gorton to not provide DQ with better depth.

Many good players had a hard time getting contracts this season. Some really talented players have passed through waivers and so forth. We are playing with a 33 y/o goon on the 4th that has zero spark and a defender on our 4th line. It’s just so bad and a Classic Gorton to be asleep at the wheel. Lol that guy can’t multitask.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

At this point I'm way more comfortable with trading Kreider and not having an immediate replacement for his skill-set, than I am giving him a long term contract.

There's not really a prospect/player in the system that projects to have Kreider's skill, but I'm okay with that unknown at this point. Extending him would be semi-disastrous

DQ’s 4th line is a joke. All other teams carry hockey players on their 4th. We lead the league by a wide margin in fighting majors. Facts are that we have as many fighting majors as MTL, CBJ, Ari, WPG, Minny, Dallas and Edmonton have COMBINED.

It’s also a downright crappy job by Gorton to not provide DQ with better depth.

I agree about them not having a 4th line, it's definitely hurting the team overall.

But the personnel being deployed on the 4th line right now (minus Haley) isn't terrible. Smith is fine, McKegg is a competent 4th liner, and Boo/Gettinger have been alright so far.

Seems to me Quinn doesn't trust them, which is his problem

 

[kovazub94]

Andersson is a favorite in Columbus. I highly doubt they'd move him. Especially when he's struggling. I also don't really see Buch as a Torts favorite.

The overall theme of Brooks' article is sound though. If/when the Rangers trade Kreider, their first order of business becomes finding a Kreider replacement. As nice as it is to see some offensive push from Lemieux, I don't think he's that guy. While I think Barron has a slight chance to be that sort of player, he's likely more of a 15/15 guy than a 25-30/55 top-six option.

The issue is that those guys are notoriously hard to come by. The Rangers might have to roll the dice on someone with a pedigree and some rebound potential.

Let's take a step back even further. From the Rangers perspective the question more or less is whether to keep or move one of Kreider or Buchnevich based on their expected future performance and cap cost. IMHO moving Kreider makes more sense based on several factor. I can also readily acknowledge that moving Kreider would result in the team's losing some valuable elements of his game - specifically goal scoring, speed and physicality. However, I'm completely baffled by the suggestion that if the Ranger were to move Kreider then they should use Buchnevich to replace him. The net of these two moves is a big negative (even if you consider draft picks coming our way) to the team that is getting ready to come out of rebuild.

 

[SA16]

I think DQ is making a big mistake with Brendan Smith to be honest. Smith himself does not play bad, but there is no hockey played when he is on the ice as a forward.

We almost exclusively run 4th line vs 4th line and our is what corsi just around 40% even.

A good 4th should overtake your 3rd line on a good night. We have had that many times before, a 3a/3b situation.

Just look at how extremely big the difference is between our 3rd and 4th right now. It’s a joke.

DQ don’t think that it matters, obviously, but the NHL is a 4 line league right now. Just look around the league.

As far as I can tell most of the best teams in the league are that way because of their top line not because of their 4th line. Top 3 teams in each division:
Bos/Fla/Buf - all extremely top heavy
WSH/NYI/PHI - Wsh very top heavy, Islanders depth, Flyers several good lines (not L4)
Stl/Col/Wpg - Col/wpg extremely top heavy teams
EDM/ARI/VGK - EDM very top heavy, ARI plays 4 lines evenly almost, VGK 4th line gets minimal minutes.

There's no reason to have a 4th line *at all* other than "that's how it's always been." Why would you intentionally play your worst players when you can give more time to your 2nd/3rd liners instead (if you don't want to put your top line over 20-22 mins)? Just run 3 lines with like a 22/20/18 split that's not overwhelmingly minutes for anyone. Than you can have a "4th line" of depth who plays in case of injury or penalties and such. I'd rather have a bad 4th line and play them 5 minutes a game than have a good 4th line and play them 12 minutes a game.

 

[RGY]

Shocked someone hasn't posted yet that Brooks is floating the idea of a trade where the foundation is Buchnevich for Josh Andersson

https://nypost.com/2019/12/03/lingering-flaw-is-rangers-unfortunate-reality/

There is no shot in hell I am moving Buch for Anderson. And this is one of the leaders of the front to go get Josh Anderson. Buch’s production is climbing and he is still young.

Making the move for JA would be with the hope CBJ is frustrated and selling JA to restock the cupboard with draft picks and/or prospect combination. And no I am not saying 1st or even 2nd round picks. Maybe a 3rd, B Level prospect with boom potential, and a depth player such as Boo Nieves or Tim Gettinger.

 

[RGY]

The Rangers are not playing for just this season.

Kreider has ****ing disappeared. He is a non-factor and you’re worried about who will replace him. He does nothing. His game has fallen apart in 2019. He has 13 goals in 68 games in 2019. One of those goals was an empty net goal.

The Rangers have traded away so many players in the last 20 plus months without a replacement in the pipeline. Why would a Kreider trade be any different?

Actually his game has not fallen apart. In fact, his game is right on par / pace with his career norms. We have seen the same Kreider this year that we always have. He is a streaky scorer. And he is also streaky with his gameplay style and the impact is has. Some games, like Boston and Vegas, he is just there. Then there are others where he is driving possession with his speed and energy.

And yes, the point is they will need to replace that type of player if and when they move Kreider because they dont have nearly enough of that in this lineup. Hopefully the replacement they find is more consistent

 

[Savant]

How is Columbus getting the better player doing any favors for the Rangers??

Selling low on Anderson is doing anyone a favor

 

[kovazub94]

Because at some point you have to stop trading and start constructing the right team. They just gave out big money to Panarin and Trouba. Zib is another year older. They have a ton of money coming off the books within two years. How many more years do you think they settle for not making the playoffs? I get you think you know best, that's cool. There's more than one perspective though. Then again you were *****ing when the signed Panarin and traded for Trouba, so.

And 29 year old Kreider to start a 6-7 year contract at $7m per is not that piece for what he brings (or often doesn't) .

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

And 29 year old Kreider to start a 6-7 year contract at $7m per is not that piece for what he brings (or often doesn't) .

We're all assuming what his next deal will be but I don't think he signs for that term.

 

[effen]

what talented players have passed through waivers that would markedly improve our 4th line where lol

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Selling low on Anderson is doing anyone a favor

ARE we selling low or is he a stock that's headed towards zero?

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Because at some point you have to stop trading and start constructing the right team.

And that's exactly what Gorton has been doing. You acknowledge this fact in your next sentence below.

They just gave out big money to Panarin and Trouba. Zib is another year older. They have a ton of money coming off the books within two years. How many more years do you think they settle for not making the playoffs?

The ton of money coming off the books will be needed to retain our youngsters. We close to being a bubble team now and we're the youngest team in the league.

I get you think you know best, that's cool. There's more than one perspective though. Then again you were *****ing when the signed Panarin and traded for Trouba, so.

RB doesn't think it's cool. We're all die hard fans here and want to see the team succeed. He wasn't the only one against Trouba and Panarin either.

You're over rating Kreider. Again, he's a good player but he isn't special. What you see Panarin doing out there every night is special. Kreider was our 1LW. You can say Panarin is his replacement, and our goal should be to find a 2LW, which we might already have in Kakko/Kravtsov.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

We're all assuming what his next deal will be but I don't think he signs for that term.

What do you think he signs for? This is his last chance for a big pay day, he's not taking a hometown discount for 4 years

 

[kovazub94]

We're all assuming what his next deal will be but I don't think he signs for that term.

I mean this is just the current market (which typically grows if nothing else). It's more of a folly to assume / expect a hometown discount which is a much more rare occurrence. If anything this discount is not big - maybe a couple of 100K and comes with a cost of NTC or NMC.

 

[effen]

ARE we selling low or is he a stock that's headed towards zero?

he's talking about Josh Anderson of Columbus.

somehow people think Buchnevich is a more desirable commodity than he is, which is wrong in a different way.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

somehow people think Buchnevich is a more desirable commodity than he is, which is wrong in a different way.

He's a top 6 winger who can put up anywhere from 40-50 points depending on who he's playing with. No one is saying he's going to be a 60-70 point winger anymore

If I'm building a team and the choice is Buchnevich or Anderson, the choice is an easy one and I take Buch

 

[effen]

He's a top 6 winger who can put up anywhere from 40-50 points depending on who he's playing with. No one is saying he's going to be a 60-70 point winger anymore

If I'm building a team and the choice is Buchnevich or Anderson, the choice is an easy one and I take Buch

Anderson's skillset is significantly more difficult to acquire and his best season is better than Buchnevich's.

If they're both 50 point wingers (seems reasonable) than taking the softer (by a lot) one is a bold strategy.

 

[nyr2k2]

I can see teams being wary of a deterioration in Kreider's speed and not going past five years for him.

 

[LokiDog]

Anderson would be a good get for this team. Another Lemieux type with a higher upside. I wouldn’t move Buch for him right now. Strome, a prospect/pick, etc. sure, but Buch is producing too well right now to move for Anderson without knowing Anderson will turn things around. I would love to get Jenner though. He can play C well and is a tough SOB.

 

[NYR Viper]

A guy the Rangers have been in on for a couple of years is Trent Frederic out of the Boston farm system. he's a prototypical power forward. Probably tops out as a 3rd liner but he's a no nonsense, stand-up for your teammates kind of kid. He's still someone who intrigues me as a secondary piece. He's off to a semi-slow start in the AHL this year at 10 points in 21 games but has 54 PIM's. Last year he had 25 points in 55 games and 64 PIM's. 6'2 and 200lbs. He was pretty close to a back-to-back ppg player at Wisconsin his first couple of years after being drafted so he has offensive skills

 

[DanielBrassard]

I can see teams being wary of a deterioration in Kreider's speed and not going past five years for him.

IMO it seems like it's already happening, although how much of that is him just being a bit more cautious knowing his situation? Tough to say. He's certainly not having the impact he did every other year of his career though.

 

[LokiDog]

Anderson's skillset is significantly more difficult to acquire and his best season is better than Buchnevich's.

If they're both 50 point wingers (seems reasonable) than taking the softer (by a lot) one is a bold strategy.

Buch’s 64 games last season, prorated comes out to 27 goals and 48 points, so essentially identical to Anderson’s best season. The problem is Buch is on pace for 60 points this year and Anderson is on pace for 16. Buch is a year younger. Anderson would be a great addition to this roster but I couldn’t pull the trigger on this deal right now.

 

[JimmyG89]

what talented players have passed through waivers that would markedly improve our 4th line where lol

Brian Gibbons would have been a nice pickup off waivers. Nic Petan was on there too, should have been claimed.

We're also talking about being better than Michael Haley. This isn't that difficult of a task.

 

[Savant]

Anderson's skillset is significantly more difficult to acquire and his best season is better than Buchnevich's.

If they're both 50 point wingers (seems reasonable) than taking the softer (by a lot) one is a bold strategy.

Columbus GAVE Vegas a 1st to not pick Anderson. There is no way they have soured on him that much to not want at least that kind of value to move him. Not the right move for the Rangers

 

[effen]

Buch’s 64 games last season, prorated comes out to 27 goals and 48 points, so essentially identical to Anderson’s best season. The problem is Buch is on pace for 60 points this year and Anderson is on pace for 16. Buch is a year younger. Anderson would be a great addition to this roster but I couldn’t pull the trigger on this deal right now.

Sure. I do think in the next 18 months there will be a skilled-for-tougher trade with Buch or a Buch-type to add a different element to the roster. The trade-off with that is the tougher typically comes with worse counting stats.