Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVII - Want some, get some

[Avery16]

Kreider is very unique to the point where his skillset is impossible to find in another player. Very few have that size and speed.

The thing is, we don't need a replica or anything like that. We do need someone who can skate well and have size.

His biggest downside is his puck skills. I'll gladly take someone not as fast but is a better passer and can be a net front. Those are hard to find too. Might need to be drafted. Big wingers usually go in the top 10, unless you get lucky and find one later.

It's a long shot, but someone like Barron could be that kind of player. He has puck skills and size, just not the speed of a Kreider. Let's see him in 18 months or so and where he is. Might be able to make a jump from NCAA to the NHL, but most likely some AHL time is needed, maybe even a full season. Just don't rush him.

What use is size and speed if you don’t hit and you don’t finish

 

[LokiDog]

Kreider is very unique to the point where his skillset is impossible to find in another player. Very few have that size and speed.

The thing is, we don't need a replica or anything like that. We do need someone who can skate well and have size.

His biggest downside is his puck skills. I'll gladly take someone not as fast but is a better passer and can be a net front. Those are hard to find too. Might need to be drafted. Big wingers usually go in the top 10, unless you get lucky and find one later.

So literally Alex Tuch.

6’4 220 20g 52pts in 74 games as a 22/23 year old last year.
Fast as the wind, better hands, physical, blocks shots.

 

[LokiDog]

Krug is a UFA this summer and I would absolutely make room for him/move Skjei if we could get him. He’d be incredible playing opposite Trouba.

 

[NYRangers16]

I know a lot of people here love Kreider but the reality is, whoever signs him is going to regret that contract. Can anyone tell me he is worth 5m aav today? 6m? 7m? What kind of cap disaster are you guys advocating for?

 

[bobbop]

If you keep trading away veterans, constant rebuilding becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. That’s not the Ranger team I want to see.

I also don’t think that is the team that Ranger management wants to see in the future. I think GMJG signaled very clearly last spring that in trading three draft choices for Trouba and Fox, he is done over accumulating futures.

Let me explain the difference between a hockey trade and a futures trade. In a hockey trade, you get a player or players for same. In a futures trade you get draft choices. I want players if and when we have to move our current assets.

I’ve felt all along that there is a good chance Kreider will sign back with the Rangers. Spend some time with Cap Friendly and you can see that most preferred locations for American born players are going to be struggling with the cap next year. Kreider doesn’t seem to be the kind if player who will go to the ends of the earth to chase a contract.

If they can’t make a deal, he will Have to be monetized. He will not be a self rental. And while he has not started well this year, consider this...Taylor Hall has all of 4 goals. Look at all of the interest he is drawing. Four goals!

The Rangers have another problem; empty seats. Lots of them. On Monday night there were at least 2000 empties. That’s a lot of lost ticket and concession revenue. They surely recognize the need to put a better product on the ice.

There’s still a lot of work to be done here and some positional puzzles that need to be sorted out but the team has made a lot of progress and they seem intent on accelerating that upward trend.

As it should be.

 

[LokiDog]

I know a lot of people here love Kreider but the reality is, whoever signs him is going to regret that contract. Can anyone tell me he is worth 5m aav today? 6m? 7m? What kind of cap disaster are you guys advocating for?

I agree with this whole heartedly. Kreider just isn’t a player I’m willing to invest in for 4-5 more years.

 

[offdacrossbar]

i will go on record right now and say i want no part of kreider at what he will cost in terms of $$ and term.

prefer to allocate that money elsewhere.

and im not changing my mind on this

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

What use is size and speed if you don’t hit and you don’t finish

He s 3rd on the team in hits. Behind Trouba and Lemieux.

 

[Avery16]

He s 3rd on the team in hits. Behind Trouba and Lemieux.

Yeah- he averages two hits/GP. That should be minimum. Not using his size and speed. Him third in team hits is why this team is 19th in hits league-wide.

 

[QJL]

I’d pin Kreider’s actual worth at around $4m x 4 years. He’s obviously going to get way more, but that would be my best offer in New York.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

But lets say we are in the PO race up say 2-3 pts and then we deal Strome for futures at the deadline and lose 10 straight -- it wouldn't look good on Gorton...

Somehow, I don't think trading Strome would lead to such a catastrophic losing streak....that could happen even WITH Strome in the lineup.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

How about trying to get an asset attached to Turris and sent our way? Also i know nothing about Shore but im sure id prefer him to Haley.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

I’d pin Kreider’s actual worth at around $4m x 4 years. He’s obviously going to get way more, but that would be my best offer in New York.

I would think trading him would be more efficient than offering him a contract saying "here's a 4 year deal at the same money (or less) -- take it or leave it)."

 

[Deleted member 23124]

The Rangers have another problem; empty seats. Lots of them. On Monday night there were at least 2000 empties. That’s a lot of lost ticket and concession revenue. They surely recognize the need to put a better product on the ice.

The only loss I see here is concessions -- those "2000" seats may have been empty but I'd wager at least 95% were already paid for.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Anderson would be a good get for this team. Another Lemieux type with a higher upside. I wouldn’t move Buch for him right now. Strome, a prospect/pick, etc. sure, but Buch is producing too well right now to move for Anderson without knowing Anderson will turn things around. I would love to get Jenner though. He can play C well and is a tough SOB.

Jenner, Anderson and Emil Bemstrom
For Kreider and Fast??

 

[Avery16]

Jenner, Anderson and Emil Bemstrom
For Kreider and Fast??

Columbus is in the bottom fifth in the standings. Why are they acquiring two pending UFAs they have no shot at re-signing?

 

[RGY]

Wish we could fit Boone Jenner but I dont think thats happening.

Josh Anderson is the more likely target.

Nick Shore or heck even Patrick Berglund (as mentioned earlier in the thread) would be good depth additions for the 4th line to make this team deeper. Better options than Smith, Haley, and Nieves. Pushing Mckegg back to the 12th/13th forward role.

Also, this is why I wanted us to bring back Brassard who has been a decent player for the Isles this year. Insurance who can slide up and down the lineup. Provide more depth. Could play wing and center. And right now could be taking the 3C role from Howden but likely wouldnt happen because DQ is obsessed with him. Boyle was the other target. Guys we knew could handle NY. The management teams seems intent on improving this year to be a playoff bubble team. Signing either to 1 year deals would have helped in so many ways. Boyle with the PK. You could have then sold them off at the deadline if the price was right and the team was not in a playoff spot. Its a shame.

 

[Barnaby]

If you keep trading away veterans, constant rebuilding becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. That’s not the Ranger team I want to see.

I also don’t think that is the team that Ranger management wants to see in the future. I think GMJG signaled very clearly last spring that in trading three draft choices for Trouba and Fox, he is done over accumulating futures.

Let me explain the difference between a hockey trade and a futures trade. In a hockey trade, you get a player or players for same. In a futures trade you get draft choices. I want players if and when we have to move our current assets.

I’ve felt all along that there is a good chance Kreider will sign back with the Rangers. Spend some time with Cap Friendly and you can see that most preferred locations for American born players are going to be struggling with the cap next year. Kreider doesn’t seem to be the kind if player who will go to the ends of the earth to chase a contract.

If they can’t make a deal, he will Have to be monetized. He will not be a self rental. And while he has not started well this year, consider this...Taylor Hall has all of 4 goals. Look at all of the interest he is drawing. Four goals!

The Rangers have another problem; empty seats. Lots of them. On Monday night there were at least 2000 empties. That’s a lot of lost ticket and concession revenue. They surely recognize the need to put a better product on the ice.

There’s still a lot of work to be done here and some positional puzzles that need to be sorted out but the team has made a lot of progress and they seem intent on accelerating that upward trend.

As it should be.

1. I don’t think they are signing him to a long term deal bc other teams don’t value their player highly enough. For example, no team thinks he’s worth price X so let’s resign him to 6 x 7 then give him some very limiting NTC. Personally I think they decided not to sign him long ago.

2. Hall is a former MVP candidate coming off an injury, and playing on an awful team. What does he have to do with CK? Teams will pine away for Hall as long as he looks up to sspeed.

3. Whether or not CK is on the team does not affect ticket sales. I don’t think that’s a major concern and if it was I don’t think CK is electric enough or makes this team so much better that he has any significant impact in that regard.

4. I’ll gladly take a first + for Kreider. Teams rarely trade high end prospects. This is supposedly a draft to rival 2003 and I’d like them to be well armed. To me, this is the last year the Rangers swing hard at the draft before they turn the corner to progressing. This not a “self fulfilling prophecy.” The Rangers will have had a markedly fast rebuild and still have some very good vets on this roster to help the transition. Zibanejad, Panarin, Trouba, Skjei, Henrik, to name a few. Teams like Edmonton and Buffalo never had that.

 

[kovazub94]

Well I think it's clear that he has chemistry with Panarin but it's tough to say how the Rangers value him. If they think he's a 60 point winger riding shotgun to Panarin and Chytil that they can lock up for $4m per for 4 more years? I could honestly see them taking that chance. Maybe Kravtsov or another guy comes in and outplays him and you can trade him or move him down the lineup without it being a major hindrance to the cap mechanics.

I think between the guys they have in the pipe and at the pro level right now, there are a number of really promising options for 2nd and 3rd pair LHD. Miller is the guy who seems to have top pairing upside. Perhaps Robertson as well. Both are at least 2-3 years away, IMO. I think you're right that a dynamic partner for Trouba would go a long way. I don't think Skjei has a the hockey IQ to be the Rangers version of Josh Morrisey, but maybe that guy is out there.

Yeah, $4x4 would give an indication of the team valuing Strome as a 3rd liners being in the right situation, as opposed to a true top-6 forward whose contracts these days are significantly higher for UFA years (3 out of 4 in this case for Strome).

 

[Barnaby]

Wish we could fit Boone Jenner but I dont think thats happening.

Josh Anderson is the more likely target.

Nick Shore or heck even Patrick Berglund (as mentioned earlier in the thread) would be good depth additions for the 4th line to make this team deeper. Better options than Smith, Haley, and Nieves. Pushing Mckegg back to the 12th/13th forward role.

Also, this is why I wanted us to bring back Brassard who has been a decent player for the Isles this year. Insurance who can slide up and down the lineup. Provide more depth. Could play wing and center. And right now could be taking the 3C role from Howden but likely wouldnt happen because DQ is obsessed with him. Boyle was the other target. Guys we knew could handle NY. The management teams seems intent on improving this year to be a playoff bubble team. Signing either to 1 year deals would have helped in so many ways. Boyle with the PK. You could have then sold them off at the deadline if the price was right and the team was not in a playoff spot. Its a shame.

I love Brassard but I didn’t like the fit. I completely agree with Boyle though.

I think they planned on LA, Howden, and Strome filling out the center spot behind Zibanejad and Chytil. Unfortunately, the experiment hasn’t played out wonderfully with LA or Howden. Strome seems to compliment Panarin well so I like them on the wings with Chytil in the middle. I don’t mind Smith on the 4th line, but I wish they had upgrades for Nieves and Haley who are both AHL players to me. They could be 13th forwards, but I hate seeing them play every day.

 

[RangerBoy]

I think we are going to be getting 5-6 years of 70-90 point production from Panarin.

I harken back to the lack of NA hockey miles on his legs.

Hes 28 and has ONLY 4 full seasons under his belt while hes working on his 5th season.

Typical elite talent like him are playing from at the very least their age 20 season, most elite talents like this, from the age of 18.

I think he was a great signing and believe he will buck the trend of players fading once they hit 30yo

I hope you are correct for the Rangers sake. The Panarin contract is basically a signing bonus contract. $74.5M of the $81.5M is in signing bonus money. Buyout proof contract.

I have heard the lack of NA hockey miles with Zuccarello. He can play until his mid to late 30's at a high level because he began his NA career at 22/23. He looked bad last season at 31. Injuries started to creep in with a groin injury he struggled to return from. He looks worse this season at 32. He is on pace for the worst season of his career. We heard the lack of NA miles on him as a justification for giving him a contract extension. Good luck to Minnesota.

 

[RangerBoy]

If you keep trading away veterans, constant rebuilding becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. That’s not the Ranger team I want to see.

I also don’t think that is the team that Ranger management wants to see in the future. I think GMJG signaled very clearly last spring that in trading three draft choices for Trouba and Fox, he is done over accumulating futures.

Let me explain the difference between a hockey trade and a futures trade. In a hockey trade, you get a player or players for same. In a futures trade you get draft choices. I want players if and when we have to move our current assets.

I’ve felt all along that there is a good chance Kreider will sign back with the Rangers. Spend some time with Cap Friendly and you can see that most preferred locations for American born players are going to be struggling with the cap next year. Kreider doesn’t seem to be the kind if player who will go to the ends of the earth to chase a contract.

If they can’t make a deal, he will Have to be monetized. He will not be a self rental. And while he has not started well this year, consider this...Taylor Hall has all of 4 goals. Look at all of the interest he is drawing. Four goals!

The Rangers have another problem; empty seats. Lots of them. On Monday night there were at least 2000 empties. That’s a lot of lost ticket and concession revenue. They surely recognize the need to put a better product on the ice.

There’s still a lot of work to be done here and some positional puzzles that need to be sorted out but the team has made a lot of progress and they seem intent on accelerating that upward trend.

As it should be.

Chris Kreider is on pace for 19 goals and 41 points. The Rangers aren't getting good players for a rental. He is the last player left to trade from the Rangers glory teams.

I heard the same nonsense last season with Kevin Hayes. The Rangers should sign him because they need to ice a competitive team. The Rangers should go with Zibanejad and Hayes as their 1-2 down the middle because Chytil is really a wing and he can't play center. The Flyers gave Hayes $50M. Brooks used that same argument about getting players back for Hayes as a rental.

You think those teams trading for Hall and the stupid team signing Hall will get their money's worth?

 

[Barnaby]

I hope you are correct for the Rangers sake. The Panarin contract is basically a signing bonus contract. $74.5M of the $81.5M is in signing bonus money. Buyout proof contract.

I have heard the lack of NA hockey miles with Zuccarello. He can play until his mid to late 30's at a high level because he began his NA career at 22/23. He looked bad last season at 31. Injuries started to creep in with a groin injury he struggled to return from. He looks worse this season at 32. He is on pace for the worst season of his career. We heard the lack of NA miles on him as a justification for giving him a contract extension. Good luck to Minnesota.

I agree with you in regards to the “miles” argument. I think that’s mostly BS that sounds good. Idk, does a kid who played college hockey for 4 years playing fewer games have a longer career than someone who played in the CHL then transitioned to the AHL at 20 thus playing a ton more games? What about that kid playing professional hockey in the KHL at 18 or 19? I could be wrong but I doubt “mileage” is a factor. Injuries or lack of talent? Sure.

What is good? He hasn’t had any serious injuries to this point that I’m aware of, he’s in a tier above Zuccarello, and maybe most importantly, he does have a real knack for avoiding big hits. I think he’ll age at a rate closer to a guy like MSL. The last year or two could be tough but I really do think he’ll perform at a high rate through the length of most of the deal. To be honest, I wouldn’t have signed him, but after watching him I’m much more optimistic and I’d be glad to be proven wrong.

 

[pld459666]

I hope you are correct for the Rangers sake. The Panarin contract is basically a signing bonus contract. $74.5M of the $81.5M is in signing bonus money. Buyout proof contract.

I have heard the lack of NA hockey miles with Zuccarello. He can play until his mid to late 30's at a high level because he began his NA career at 22/23. He looked bad last season at 31. Injuries started to creep in with a groin injury he struggled to return from. He looks worse this season at 32. He is on pace for the worst season of his career. We heard the lack of NA miles on him as a justification for giving him a contract extension. Good luck to Minnesota.

He looked bad for the first half of the year as he was dealing with the inevitable trade.

Once he got used to that he had very decent numbers.

37 in 46 equates to a 65 point season so his numbers with the Rangers would indicate he was on pace for his best season as a Ranger.

Additionally, 11 points in 13 po games kinda tell me he was more than fine last year.

Lastly, there is a significant talent gap between Zucc and Panarin.

If I'm not mistaken, my post was in relation to elite level talent. Most of these guys stay elite for 10 years and good for another 3-4 beyond that.

I dont view Zucc as elite, I dont think there is much debate about Panarin being an elite level talent.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

The thing I worry about with Panarin is Quinn. I have no doubt Quinn, who is trying to win games at any cost, is going to play him more minutes than he should be and wear him down.