Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVII - Want some, get some

[Oscar Lindberg]

What I don't understand is why it couldn't get done. Not too long ago I would have said no as I am one of the most anti-JP people on this board. But considering where Lias is at both from a production standpoint and how the team views him, I don't see why it didn't happen. No team should be asking for more.

Gorton probably offered a straight swap of struggling prospects and Holland wanted more.

Because the 2 hip surgeries, alleged locker room problem, has come out publicly and said he'll never play for the organization again 4th overall pick is apparently worth so much more than Lias haha

 

[UnSandvich]

What I don't understand is why it couldn't get done. Not too long ago I would have said no as I am one of the most anti-JP people on this board. But considering where Lias is at both from a production standpoint and how the team views him, I don't see why it didn't happen. No team should be asking for more.

Lots of rumors were suggesting Holland was asking for a 1st & decent prospect for JP. Which is a VERY hard no for me.

I'm not a huge fan of that trade 1 for 1, let alone us adding

 

[Edge]

For all the interest in JP, the guy has all of 7 more points in the NHL than draft classmate Brett Howden --- in 47 more games.

Obviously, Holland's goal is to minimize the damage of the value lost taking him 4th overall. But I'm not sure there's a mega-deal to be had out there for JP.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Also you have to assume that the Coyotes and Blues are serious about going after Hall, they will potentially be in on Kreider

This is turning into the same situation as Hayes last year. The Rangers have the clearly best rental player available, and then some incompetent organization comes in with a player who's better

 

[Gardner McKay]

Gorton probably offered a straight swap of struggling prospects and Holland wanted more.

Because the 2 hip surgeries, alleged locker room problem, has come out publicly and said he'll never play for the organization again 4th overall pick is apparently worth so much more than Lias haha

That is kind of what I am thinking lol. It isn't like Jessie is a healthy but malcontent player who was putting up numbers for Edmonton before fleeing to play overseas.

 

[Edge]

That is kind of what I am thinking lol. It isn't like Jessie is a healthy but malcontent player who was putting up numbers for Edmonton before fleeing to play overseas.

As a general point of comparison, in Oct. 2016, a 23-year-old Nail Yakpov was traded to St. Louis for Zach Pochiro and a conditional third-round pick in 2017.

At the time Pochiro was shuttling between the ECHL and the AHL, and the conditions of the pick never ended up being met.

Now, Yakupov was two years older than JP, but he was also more productive at the NHL level.

So I'm not sold on the idea that the Rangers need to up the ante to acquire JP, regardless of what Holland determines is his asking price.

I get that Edmonton has been a tire fire, but I'm not sure that some posters fully understand how much of a calculated risk a guy like JP is at this point, or what history points to as an approximate price point for assuming that risk.

 

[offdacrossbar]

personally would rather steer clear of pool party.

im not feeling it. away from the puck, hes atrocious and that wont play well in quinn-ville.

not a fan of guys that have taken this long to finally just become below average.

 

[Kendo]

The story is that the Avs walked away from a Kreider deal at the draft because Newhook was available. If they weren't interested in giving up Newhook for a full year of Kreider, I can't imagine they'd want to do it for 2 months of Kreider. I think we should all let that dream die.

Devil's advocate: Perhaps they would be comfortable trading for an extendable CK, so they would rather do the deal in early 2020 rather than mid 2019. Perhaps...not that it's likely, just that it's possible.

 

[kovazub94]

I don’t expect or want Kreider to get a seven year contract. That’s out of my value range. Pay him on a shorter term. Five years tops. And if his agents is be looking at the top 8-10 teams in desirable destinations (almost certainly all US) he will see there aren’t a lot of teams out there that will be able to give him a seven year term. @Edge nailed Kreider’s value perfectly . He is what he is. Stall will be gone next year and that leaves Lundquist (for one more year) and Mika. You need veteran leadership. Look at who is out there after every practice with the young players.

We can talk about what's reasonable, but just as you said Kreider can look around the league or even at his recent teammates and see that Zuke got 5 years, Hayes got 7, McD got 7. Even JTM as a lower tier got 5 years.

Gun to the head, would you really bet on Kreider getting less than 6 years as a UFA?

 

[Gardner McKay]

As a general point of comparison, in Oct. 2016, a 23-year-old Nail Yakpov was traded to St. Louis for Zach Pochiro and a conditional third-round pick in 2017.

At the time Pochiro was shuttling between the ECHL and the AHL, and the conditions of the pick never ended up being met.

Now, Yakupov was two years older than JP is now, but he was also more productive at the NHL level.

So I'm not sold on the idea that the Rangers need to up the ante to acquire JP, regardless of what Holland determines is his asking price.

I get that Edmonton has been a tire fire, but I'm not sure that some posters fully understand how much of a calculated risk a guy like JP is at this point, or what history points to as an approximate price point for assuming that risk.

Oh I completely agree and if I indicated otherwise, that was absolutely not my intention.

What I was really trying to get across is that a few months ago I would have completely balked at a Lias for JP trade. I've been one of JP's biggest detractors. My willingness to consider this now has more to do with how I feel the organization/Quinn views Lias, based how he was played early this season. While I don't think he did himself any favors production wise, I don't feel like he was given a fair shake after having what I considered to be a good training camp. Under no circumstances would I add anything to Lias, not even a conditional 7th rounder in 2064.

Devil's advocate: Perhaps they would be comfortable trading for an extendable CK, so they would rather do the deal in early 2020 rather than mid 2019. Perhaps...not that it's likely, just that it's possible.

I think we sometimes confuse devil's advocate for wishful thinking.

 

[kovazub94]

What I don't understand is why it couldn't get done. Not too long ago I would have said no as I am one of the most anti-JP people on this board. But considering where Lias is at both from a production standpoint and how the team views him, I don't see why it didn't happen. No team should be asking for more.

From another recent tweet TO ME it read like Oilers wanted more than just a straight prospect-for-prospect exchange. We might be wrong but I agree with you that my perception is that the Rangers would've agreed to the straight exchange.

 

[Edge]

Devil's advocate: Perhaps they would be comfortable trading for an extendable CK, so they would rather do the deal in early 2020 rather than mid 2019. Perhaps...not that it's likely, just that it's possible.

I would say that Colorado is highly, highly unlikely to move Newhook, even if CK was extended on their terms.

If the Rangers are getting a young player as part of their deal, rather than pick, it's not going to be a top-tier prospect.

I think their offers will likely fall into one of two categories:

1. A first round pick, along with a B prospect

2. A younger NHL player who is taking a regular shift and has decent upside, along with a mid-round pick.

 

[Edge]

Oh I completely agree and if I indicated otherwise, that was absolutely not my intention.

What I was really trying to get across is that a few months ago I would have completely balked at a Lias for JP trade. I've been one of JP's biggest detractors. My willingness to consider this now has more to do with how I feel the organization/Quinn views Lias, based how he was played early this season. While I don't think he did himself any favors production wise, I don't feel like he was given a fair shake after having what I considered to be a good training camp. Under no circumstances would I add anything to Lias, not even a conditional 7th rounder in 2064.

While I personally am not keen to move Andersson for JP, and would feel disappointed, I wouldn't post a tirade against it either.

Unfortunately, for many of the reasons you stated, I have doubts that it's going to work out here for Andersson.

 

[kovazub94]

While I personally am not keen to move Andersson for JP, and would feel disappointed, I wouldn't post a tirade against it either.

Unfortunately, for many of the reasons you stated, I have doubts that it's going to work out here for Andersson.

One day I actually want to see it as a paying (subscription) customer! Topic is irrelevant

 

[mike14]

One day I actually want to see it as a paying (subscription) customer! Topic is irrelevant

Keep talking about Mika's 'concussion' and we might just be able to get him there!

 

[Kendo]

I would say that Colorado is highly, highly unlikely to move Newhook, even if CK was extended on their terms.

If the Rangers are getting a young player as part of their deal, rather than pick, it's not going to be a top-tier prospect.

I think their offers will likely fall into one of two categories:

1. A first round pick, along with a B prospect

2. A younger NHL player who is taking a regular shift and has decent upside, along with a mid-round pick.

Agreed. Highly unlikely. I only disagree with "Wake up, it ain't never happenin'." LOL

Agreed. A 1st and a B prospect, or an A prospect and a 2nd/3rd.
I would love to get an even better prospect and no pick...but "If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, then every day would be Erntedankfest." =P

 

[kovazub94]

Keep talking about Mika's 'concussion' and we might just be able to get him there!

Is that his button to push? I think I'm personally at my limit tbh on this subject. : )

And I want @Edge to rant on something Gorton or Davidson did instead of one of the posters.

 

[Edge]

Keep talking about Mika's 'concussion' and we might just be able to get him there!

Just change John Tortorella to Edge, and "Clear the puck into the neutral zone!" to "It's not a damn concussion!" and this article pretty much sums it up:

John Tortorella Pacing Around Penn Station Screaming At Total Strangers To Clear Puck Into Neutral Zone

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

From another recent tweet TO ME it read like Oilers wanted more than just a straight prospect-for-prospect exchange. We might be wrong but I agree with you that my perception is that the Rangers would've agreed to the straight exchange.

If I was them I'd go after another NHL player, not a pick. Maybe Fast and Andersson for Pulju and Brandon Manning or another bad contract

 

[Dijock94]

I would say that Colorado is highly, highly unlikely to move Newhook, even if CK was extended on their terms.

If the Rangers are getting a young player as part of their deal, rather than pick, it's not going to be a top-tier prospect.

I think their offers will likely fall into one of two categories:

1. A first round pick, along with a B prospect

2. A younger NHL player who is taking a regular shift and has decent upside, along with a mid-round pick.

Jost

 

[Edge]

Jost

I would say there's a very good possibility the Rangers bring up his name.

 

[duhmetreE]

Jost

That could be a lottery ticket.

Some players just take time to develop/put it together. I remember talks/rumblings of moving MacKinnon when he was 21.

 

[Trxjw]

Devil's advocate: Perhaps they would be comfortable trading for an extendable CK, so they would rather do the deal in early 2020 rather than mid 2019. Perhaps...not that it's likely, just that it's possible.

Certainly possible, but the Rangers could've let Kreider and his agent talk to them beforehand to see if an extension would be something he was open to.

I'm sure the Avs will inquire about him again at the deadline. Particularly if they miss out on Hall. However I just think certain guys are unlikely to be a part of a potential return.

 

[kovazub94]

Certainly possible, but the Rangers could've let Kreider and his agent talk to them beforehand to see if an extension would be something he was open to.

I'm sure the Avs will inquire about him again at the deadline. Particularly if they miss out on Hall. However I just think certain guys are unlikely to be a part of a potential return.

That's the DD Gorton's team has to do: find a team willing to trade and identify - among assets they're willing to part with - these that would be the most useful. These "apparent" good assets are not something that other teams are willing to part with themselves, and one of the reasons why there are so little trades in the NHL.

 

[Trxjw]

@NYR Viper brought up Jost earlier in the thread as well. I think he makes a lot of sense as a target given the age, pedigree, and position he's in with the Avs. I don't think he'd be coming with a 1st attached to him, but a 3rd with a condition to make it a higher pick could be a gamble that's appealing to the Rangers. You already know Jost is a useful NHL player. The question is just how good of an NHLer can he be?