Speculation: Roster Building thread - Part XVII - (TDL is March 7th)

[Machinehead]

Bern is back with his never ending defending of Kreider's garbage hockey this season. Cant wait till he’s off the team so we dont need to hear it anymore.

You're telling me.

 

[Machinehead]

Most returns for star players are like the middle of the Royal Rumble.

You hope for a big surprise, but 95% of the time, it's just a bunch of guys you don't care about.

 

[TGWL]

Fox will be basically the same guy next season but he won’t shoot 0.0001% and his partner won’t be Ryan Lindgren and all these trade demand posts will suddenly be about how seriously he started taking the offseason or his nutrition or how his skating is looking quicker lol.

I’ve seen this song and dance a million times.

I think Fox will be better next season but the difference between the expected shooting percentage and his current shooting percentage doesn't equal that many more goals. Last season he shot well over his average. I think it's far more realistic to expect the number to come back up to around the average.

Fox needs a strong offseason routine. His shot has been bad this year. His mobility looks a little more janky which was never his strength to begin with.

FOX ISN'T SMALL!! But seriously, Fox isn't ideal size for Fox. He looks like a weak, wet noodle and if anybody believes he's 180 or more pounds, I've got news for you... he's not. Lots of players lose some muscle mass and weight during the season, but I'm not sure he gained much in the off-season aside form some donut weight. With that said, I love Fox, and he's one of the smartest defenders I've seen for our team, but he does need to start training differently because every game isn't going to just hand you space. If he's going to Eric Karlsson his off-season, he's not nearly as talented to pull that off.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Bern is back with his never ending defending of Kreider's garbage hockey this season. Cant wait till he’s off the team so we dont need to hear it anymore.

Hopefully his goal last night means that's at the deadline rather than this summer.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Hopefully his goal last night means that's at the deadline rather than this summer.

Was thinking the same thing.

 

[mrmovies779]

Younger.
Harder.
Faster.

That's my wife's wishlist too

 

[17futurecap]

Remember when Ryan McDonagh was washed, went on to win Two Stanley Cups, and is still playing well for Tampa at age 35 while we got Libor Hajek and Brett Howden back? That was awesome.

Also threw in JT Miller for laughs.

 

[bernmeister]

bern, we all appreciate your creativity, and I think this forum is often lacking for actual, concrete suggestions.

However, what you have proposed is obviously not what a real-life return would be. I have to play the odds that the real return is bad, because most of them are.

And let's say your proposal is the return.

Does Greig (already 22) become a #1 center? Does Pinto who is going on 25? (Honestly, he's like 2.5 years younger than Fox) Does Klevin (already 23) become a #1 D? Fox won a Norris around the same age Greig is now. Most players are what they are at 22. If the answer is no to all three (it is), then you've punched a hole in your lineup that you have no plans to replace to get a bunch of depth. A bunch of depth with no elite players has never won.

And then you're banking on the two 1st's replacing your #1 defenseman. Again, probably not.

So yeah, it's kind of bad, and what you proposed is in the high-end of returns.

I have maintained unless we are just looking to dump somebody [e.g., Vesey, Lindgren] while we should try to get the best deal always, we don't have to be too hard ass on the return

If we are dealing Fox, I want near top $ at min, so I make no apology as to "what you proposed is in the high-end of returns".

As to "it's kind of bad" I disagree
Grieg does not have to = 1C
if he is a solid 2C, that helps and is part of the solution, not the problem

Pinto I can see as a mid-lower level 1C
so ditto

of course, chemistry is always a big factor
look at LaF -- 2 dif versions of the kid line, now no kid line and he is not quite lost, but reacclimating
so those projections could go up slightly or down based on linemates

Kleven I see large upside, he is already big and fast, plays either side
everybody is googoo for Bischel, rightfully so.
We should also try a max retained Panarin for Bisch+

But why all that for bisch and no love for Kleven?

finally of course 2 1sts >> 2 2nds

 

[NickyFotiu]

Not sure anyone is saying that Fox is having a good season.

But I also don't believe you trade a Fox level player due to one bad season while still in the prime of his career as he just turned 27.

There is not one player on the team, in the pipeline or available in a trade tjat can give us offensively what Fox can and does.

Whats the point as we would then be scrambling to find his replacement thus nullifying the trade anyway.

I think the coaches and management need to get together and figure out who can and will likely bounce back in the future. That goes for Mika, CK, Bread, Laf, Fox, and KAM. I think every single one of them can be good players on good teams but I have large doubts that they are a good mix because of the lack of hunger/physicality.

 

[Rongomania]

That's my wife's wishlist too

Oof

 

[SA16]

I have maintained unless we are just looking to dump somebody [e.g., Vesey, Lindgren] while we should try to get the best deal always, we don't have to be too hard ass on the return

If we are dealing Fox, I want near top $ at min, so I make no apology as to "what you proposed is in the high-end of returns".

As to "it's kind of bad" I disagree
Grieg does not have to = 1C
if he is a solid 2C, that helps and is part of the solution, not the problem

Pinto I can see as a mid-lower level 1C
so ditto

of course, chemistry is always a big factor
look at LaF -- 2 dif versions of the kid line, now no kid line and he is not quite lost, but reacclimating
so those projections could go up slightly or down based on linemates

Kleven I see large upside, he is already big and fast, plays either side
everybody is googoo for Bischel, rightfully so.
We should also try a max retained Panarin for Bisch+

But why all that for bisch and no love for Kleven?

finally of course 2 1sts >> 2 2nds

Greig is not a 2C
Pinto is not a 1C

I don't think you will be proven right in the end.

 

[NYR Viper]

We don't need to galaxy brain this. Make the simple, smart decisions and re-assess. Lindgren. Smith. Vesey. Kreider. Panarin. In that order. See what pieces you can get back or what other opportunities present themselves. Get assets back to both develop and backfill but also provide ammunition for the right moves. Create cap space to make the right signings. I truly think that if these are done, between the assets they should receive in return as well as the cap space provided to make UFA signings, the team can compete next year.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I have maintained unless we are just looking to dump somebody [e.g., Vesey, Lindgren] while we should try to get the best deal always, we don't have to be too hard ass on the return

If we are dealing Fox, I want near top $ at min, so I make no apology as to "what you proposed is in the high-end of returns".

As to "it's kind of bad" I disagree
Grieg does not have to = 1C
if he is a solid 2C, that helps and is part of the solution, not the problem

Pinto I can see as a mid-lower level 1C
so ditto

of course, chemistry is always a big factor
look at LaF -- 2 dif versions of the kid line, now no kid line and he is not quite lost, but reacclimating
so those projections could go up slightly or down based on linemates

Kleven I see large upside, he is already big and fast, plays either side
everybody is googoo for Bischel, rightfully so.
We should also try a max retained Panarin for Bisch+

But why all that for bisch and no love for Kleven?

finally of course 2 1sts >> 2 2nds

Because Kleven is awful.

 

[cwede]

may not reflect activity w NYR, but might ...

not sure why Pack recalling 2 Fs and 2 Ds
but here they come

ECHL transactions for Monday, February 17, 2025:

Bloomington:
delete Ryan Siedem, D recalled by Hartford
delete Carter Berger, D recalled by Hartford
delete Blake Mclaughlin, F recalled by Hartford
delete Brett Budgell, F recalled by Hartford

Official Site of The ECHL | ECHL Transactions - Feb. 17

Following are the ECHL transactions for Monday, February 17, 2025

echl.com

 

[McRanger92]

may not reflect activity w NYR, but might ...

Would love it to be a trade but I believe they start practicing today or tomorrow and they need bodies with Fox, Trocheck, JT and Kreider preoccupied until Thursday. Also Mika missed yesterday with the flu.

 

[SA16]

may not reflect activity w NYR, but might ...

If I were to guess, the Rangers might be calling up a few players so they can have practice while they have at least four guys away from the team so Hartford needs to add some as well.

 

[NickyFotiu]

may not reflect activity w NYR, but might ...

Othman call up?

 

[bernmeister]

Greig is not a 2C
Pinto is not a 1C

I don't think you will be proven right in the end.

fair enuf
I think it will depend on the roster of wherever they are [not gonna outplay McD/Matthews/LeoDrai etc for top spots] but can grow into where I said their ballpark ceilings are

Because Kleven is awful.

thanx and we'll see

 

[surlysailor]

I have maintained unless we are just looking to dump somebody [e.g., Vesey, Lindgren] while we should try to get the best deal always, we don't have to be too hard ass on the return

If we are dealing Fox, I want near top $ at min, so I make no apology as to "what you proposed is in the high-end of returns".

As to "it's kind of bad" I disagree
Grieg does not have to = 1C
if he is a solid 2C, that helps and is part of the solution, not the problem

Pinto I can see as a mid-lower level 1C
so ditto

of course, chemistry is always a big factor
look at LaF -- 2 dif versions of the kid line, now no kid line and he is not quite lost, but reacclimating
so those projections could go up slightly or down based on linemates

Kleven I see large upside, he is already big and fast, plays either side
everybody is googoo for Bischel, rightfully so.
We should also try a max retained Panarin for Bisch+

But why all that for bisch and no love for Kleven?

finally of course 2 1sts >> 2 2nds

Why would pinto even come close to a 1c. He’s almost 25 and never even hit .5 ppg. He’s a 3c maybe pushing a 2c in a fix. Kleven top projection is a 2nd pair guy. Greidg is another 3c. You want to replace a 70 pt dman with 3 players who can’t even reach that with their best seasons combined. Oh and 2 draft picks who will more likely be the next nils lundkvist instead of the next Adam Fox.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Why would pinto even come close to a 1c. He’s almost 25 and never even hit .5 ppg. He’s a 3c maybe pushing a 2c in a fix. Kleven top projection is a 2nd pair guy. Greidg is another 3c. You want to replace a 70 pt dman with 3 players who can’t even reach that with their best seasons combined. Oh and 2 draft picks who will more likely be the next nils lundkvist instead of the next Adam Fox.

Its his MO. Boo Nieves 1C. Mathew Robertson NHLer. Draft picks more valuable than great productive players. Always kicking the can down the road to "extend the window" with rosy unrealistic projections for prospects.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Why would pinto even come close to a 1c. He’s almost 25 and never even hit .5 ppg. He’s a 3c maybe pushing a 2c in a fix. Kleven top projection is a 2nd pair guy. Greidg is another 3c. You want to replace a 70 pt dman with 3 players who can’t even reach that with their best seasons combined. Oh and 2 draft picks who will more likely be the next nils lundkvist instead of the next Adam Fox.

I don’t even think Kleven has a 2nd pair ceiling.

Hes completely devoid of any puck skills. Makes Ryan Lindgren look like Erik Karlsson in that regard.

He’d big and moves pretty well which is cool but he’d need a baby sitter no matter where he plays in a lineup.

 

[eco's bones]

Has Fox been hamstrung by Lindgren in the last two seasons? 100%.

Is he completely back to 100% healthy after last season? My guess would be no because with a puck on his stick Fox's signature ability to avoid contact and maintain possession in tight spaces is not such a feature that it's been before. and he also has been less effective in the defensive zone and it's not all Lindgren. But we do have a lot of poster who have a long term memory of a hamster and now think that what they see this year is what Fox is (SMH).

Moving Lindgren and Kreider and then finding 1LD to play with Fox is such a far and away priority for Drury everything else is just noise.

Moving Kreider is not a priority for me. If I had my druthers I'd rather move Zibanejad. That said I think Kreider would be much easier to move and could bring back a better return. He does have a couple years after this. His $6.5 wouldn't be bad at all for a 50 point player which I think he could get back to next year. He can pk and be an effective power play guy. He's been a productive playoff player. These are things though that should make him more attractive to potential trade partners than Mika IMO---who's not been quite as good a playoff performer and who has an $8.5 mil cap hit with 5 years left and whose play was faltering even last year.

As far as Lindgren---our defense in general we need to change things up a bit. Lindgren's not an ideal partner for Fox because of similar size and he's not physical enough because of his size and because of that he's too often injured or playing banged up. I think Fox could use a bigger, stronger, more physical safety valve kind of partner. Lindgren's contract this year also is a little high and he wanted more. For a 20 point defenseman with all his other issues I wouldn't do it.

 

[eco's bones]

If we're trading Fox to Ottawa Tkachuk or Stutzle need to be in the conversation. I like Jake Sanderson too. I wouldn't talk to them unless names like that came up. I'm not trying to turn them into a contender. I want the Rangers to be the contender.

Kleven right now is a bottom pair and that might be all he ever is. He wasn't a 1st rounder (not that that's a be all end all). He was a middle of the 2nd rounder picked the same year Ottawa took the much superior Sanderson in the 1st round. Grieg is a pest player with some skill.....it's questionable whether he'll ever be more than a pedestrian top 6 player. He isn't that now. Pinto's kind of in the same category as Grieg as in not a legit top 6 forward---more of a sneaky goal scorer like a Vatrano or a Donato. Good players but not good enough to justify trading a top notch player for unless there's someone a lot more serious in the package.

Such trades are quantity over quality. We already have quantity as far as forward prospects. Why even do it?

 

[kovazub94]

Moving Kreider is not a priority for me. If I had my druthers I'd rather move Zibanejad. That said I think Kreider would be much easier to move and could bring back a better return. He does have a couple years after this. His $6.5 wouldn't be bad at all for a 50 point player which I think he could get back to next year. He can pk and be an effective power play guy. He's been a productive playoff player. These are things though that should make him more attractive to potential trade partners than Mika IMO---who's not been quite as good a playoff performer and who has an $8.5 mil cap hit with 5 years left and whose play was faltering even last year.

As far as Lindgren---our defense in general we need to change things up a bit. Lindgren's not an ideal partner for Fox because of similar size and he's not physical enough because of his size and because of that he's too often injured or playing banged up. I think Fox could use a bigger, stronger, more physical safety valve kind of partner. Lindgren's contract this year also is a little high and he wanted more. For a 20 point defenseman with all his other issues I wouldn't do it.

Once we got JTM I don't see a good chance that Zibanejad is traded (unless we get a bit of a whiff of a smoke that something is in works). That's a different situation from Kreider. @NYR Viper gave his order of priorities - mine are slightly different: Lindgren, Kreider, Smith, Vesey, (Jones)........ Panarin (re the last one - I'd like to know first which 90-100 point player is comng back to replace him).

 

[Mandar]

bern, we all appreciate your creativity, and I think this forum is often lacking for actual, concrete suggestions.

However, what you have proposed is obviously not what a real-life return would be. I have to play the odds that the real return is bad, because most of them are.

And let's say your proposal is the return.

Does Greig (already 22) become a #1 center? Does Pinto who is going on 25? (Honestly, he's like 2.5 years younger than Fox) Does Klevin (already 23) become a #1 D? Fox won a Norris around the same age Greig is now. Most players are what they are at 22. If the answer is no to all three (it is), then you've punched a hole in your lineup that you have no plans to replace to get a bunch of depth. A bunch of depth with no elite players has never won.

And then you're banking on the two 1st's replacing your #1 defenseman. Again, probably not.

So yeah, it's kind of bad, and what you proposed is in the high-end of returns.

excellent reply....but.....