Speculation: Roster Building thread - Part XVII - (TDL is March 7th)

[TominNC]

We need to improve the D. You don’t do that trading your best d-man

 

[McRanger92]

Fox is like Zubov. People coming up with superfluous reasons to trade our most talented D-man. We have missed opportunities to add guys like Hanifin and Chychrun as partners for him in the past.

 

[Flan the incredible]

I think that what you're seeing is people trying to get creative to revamp the roster. Panarin isn't a perfect player either. Fiala, for all his faults, is a 28 year old winger who plays with good pace and who has (2) seasons where he put up more than a ppg, followed by a season where he scored 73 points in 82 games. This is all with playing ~2 minutes less per game than Panarin.

He's also a player who drives possession pretty consistently over his career. He's not perfect, be he'd be a nice top-6 wing option for a team in transition to a younger core who could provide offense.

He also carries a decent cap number ($7.875m) that could come back in return for Panarin's $11.6m number going the other way. It's highly unlikely that any trade of Panarin doesn't return some sort of higher cap hit contract coming back as part of the return.

Also, for all the shit Fiala gets for his playoff numbers, look at the teams he was on.
19-20 - 4 points in 4 games, where his team got swept
20-21 - 2 points in a 7 game series
21022 - 3 points in 6 games
22-23 - 6 points in 3 games
23-24 - 2 points in 5 games

Notice a trend? His teams haven't had very large sample sizes to pull from. But if we take his last 4 times in the playoffs, he has 13 points in 21 games. Not great, but not horrible. And his $7.875m contract is pretty much right in line with Lafreniere which is pretty much a 2nd liner.

You should go read the kings board. They say Fiala floats and looks disinterested half the time while playing no defense. He has the worst +/- on the team and is horribly inconsistent. He isnt a play maker and definitely hasn't been driving play as he has 7 assists that aren't PP assists on the year. Everyone is killing Zibs and in his bad moments this year which is exactly what Fiala is all the time. You want more of that except Fiala is pacing for 50 something points for almost 8 mill and is signed for 4 more years? Yuck! I also disagree about his playoff play. He has 23 points in 43 games for almost 8 mill a year? Panarin is his last 43 playoff games has 33 points and tons of fans think he is a ghost in the playoffs. A half a point a game is debatable to even call him a top 6 player.

I think the people who want Fiala have not watched him play a lot and are just stat watching. Kings fans would probably let him go for next to nothing just to get rid of his salary. Kind of how Ranger fans would give away Zibs just so he is gone. Sorry but Fiala has been terrible and Panarin is even in a down year the far better player.

 

[haohmaru]

Fox is like Zubov. People coming up with superfluous reasons to trade our most talented D-man. We have missed opportunities to add guys like Hanifin and Chychrun as partners for him in the past.

It really is kind of ridiculous

 

[TominNC]

Some say it’s “fun”. I find fan suggested deals to be a waste of time.

 

[eco's bones]

You should go read the kings board. They say Fiala floats and looks disinterested half the time while playing no defense. He has the worst +/- on the team and is horribly inconsistent. He isnt a play maker and definitely hasn't been driving play as he has 7 assists that aren't PP assists on the year. Everyone is killing Zibs and in his bad moments this year which is exactly what Fiala is all the time. You want more of that except Fiala is pacing for 50 something points for almost 8 mill and is signed for 4 more years? Yuck! I also disagree about his playoff play. He has 23 points in 43 games for almost 8 mill a year? Panarin is his last 43 playoff games has 33 points and tons of fans think he is a ghost in the playoffs. A half a point a game is debatable to even call him a top 6 player.

I think the people who want Fiala have not watched him play a lot and are just stat watching. Kings fans would probably let him go for next to nothing just to get rid of his salary. Kind of how Ranger fans would give away Zibs just so he is gone. Sorry but Fiala has been terrible and Panarin is even in a down year the far better player.

Yeah I'm not into Fiala at all. His contract and I think people tend to overrate him. He doesn't have much of a playoff pedigree. Is not a hard guy to play against and it's helpful to have as many hard to play against as possible if you're going to be competing for Cups.

 

[haohmaru]

no, on principle alone, no
Mika does not control us
break him
ck we decide on the merits later

What is this f***ing nonsense?

The best thing the Rangers can do is get Mika out of the funk that he's in that way:

1.) They have another number one center or
2.) They have a number one center to trade

"break him"
"bench him"

Does nothing for this franchise except make his trade value even lower, make him more impossible to trade, and make clear to the entire league that the Rangers are a Mickey Mouse operation that stomps their feet when they get mad and take their toys away.

This is the kind of unrealistic shit, er, solutions that you suggest that are beyond the pale and completely unrealistic. Not only that, they are completely counter intuitive to what you're trying to accomplish (get rid of Mika).

Fixing your problems are easier than getting rid of them. Make Mika valuable again.

 

[bernmeister]

What is this f***ing nonsense?

The best thing the Rangers can do is get Mika out of the funk that he's in that way:

1.) They have another number one center or
2.) They have a number one center to trade

"break him"
"bench him"

Does nothing for this franchise except make his trade value even lower, make him more impossible to trade, and make clear to the entire league that the Rangers are a Mickey Mouse operation that stomps their feet when they get mad and take their toys away.

This is the kind of unrealistic shit, er, solutions that you suggest that are beyond the pale and completely unrealistic. Not only that, they are completely counter intuitive to what you're trying to accomplish (get rid of Mika).

Fixing your problems are easier than getting rid of them. Make Mika valuable again.

it is NOT nonsense
It is taking a firm stand to establish a track record that we don't deal Kreider to appease Mika.
WE decide if and when ck goes

and if it makes more sense -- which it does currently -- to deal Mika first, we will do so

now to get that done and pay for the fuggin mistake of giving this jerk off an iron clad nmc, then that is the price we pay

we bench him eat half, and have a 3rd team like ANA do Smith in lieu of like 4 6ths to eat another 1.75m per x 4.
At that extreme discount Isles will bite

And that IS the BEST way moving forward
in zib's case, we gotta cut bait and take our losses to get out from under the 4.25 cap we can recover going forward, and move on w/no locker room drama

Kreider is actually injured
Zib just wigged out for a month and a half with less than zero excuse

He HAS TO BE BROKEN TO SEND A MESSAGE TO THE PLAYERS
period

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Kreider is not injured.

He may have discomfort, he may have even been hurt but he is not injured.

Injured players don’t play

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Fox is like Zubov. People coming up with superfluous reasons to trade our most talented D-man. We have missed opportunities to add guys like Hanifin and Chychrun as partners for him in the past.

Imagine if Fox were Russian like Zubov the cries would be louder and even more people would think he's small and soft.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I have no idea where to put this but this is a great video!

 

[EdJovanovski]

Imagine if Fox were Russian like Zubov the cries would be louder and even more people would think he's small and soft.

Except for me!

 

[RangerBoy]

Vacation time is over. The players are reporting later this afternoon for practice. Today and tomorrow are the days we may see a few trades made which has been the speculation since the NHL shutdown last Sunday.

Kreider went from not playing for two games to playing a prominent role for the U.S. team. Power play. PK. Top line. Hopefully, Kreider's trade value can be reestablished or other teams see he can still be a major contributor these next two seasons including in the playoffs this season.

 

[pld459666]

Likely will depend on a few factors....of which none have been determined as of yet and that being who will slot with who if Panarin and Kreider are still here and whether Laf moves back to his natural wing . He is at this time no Hell on his opposite side .

Another thing....albeit likely a long shot at this time....is that Cuylle and Laf would likely be involved in any Tkachuk deal if it ever happens . Anyways...all speculation at this time .

I'd hate to lose both Lafreniere and Cuylle.

If we are looking to be more difficult to play against, losing both in a Brady deal seems like treading water.

 

[leetch99]

I'd hate to lose both Lafreniere and Cuylle.

If we are looking to be more difficult to play against, losing both in a Brady deal seems like treading water.

Oh I agree....but that is what the Sens will want....and who can blame them ? I would not make that deal . Lafreniere though will need to pick up the effort these last games of the season ....if he can't hack it he may find himself wearing another uniform next year .

 

[eco's bones]

it is NOT nonsense
It is taking a firm stand to establish a track record that we don't deal Kreider to appease Mika.
WE decide if and when ck goes

and if it makes more sense -- which it does currently -- to deal Mika first, we will do so

now to get that done and pay for the fuggin mistake of giving this jerk off an iron clad nmc, then that is the price we pay

we bench him eat half, and have a 3rd team like ANA do Smith in lieu of like 4 6ths to eat another 1.75m per x 4.
At that extreme discount Isles will bite

And that IS the BEST way moving forward
in zib's case, we gotta cut bait and take our losses to get out from under the 4.25 cap we can recover going forward, and move on w/no locker room drama

Kreider is actually injured
Zib just wigged out for a month and a half with less than zero excuse

He HAS TO BE BROKEN TO SEND A MESSAGE TO THE PLAYERS
period

Look I like Chris Kreider but this team doesn't revolve around him. If people can contemplate moving Igor, Fox, Panarin, Lafreniere they can certainly contemplate moving Kreider.....and you don't have to take it like it's a personal affront. He's not our most important player.....there are several ahead of him.

I don't get how trading Kreider appeases Mika? That doesn't make any sense. It might make Mika more apt to want to move on to but we don't really know these people. That's not clear at all. Because a player is declining or because he signed a contract does not make him a jerk either. It might make his relationship with the fanbase more problematic but it doesn't say anything about the player as an actual person. You're ready to make excuses for Kreiders underwhelming season and not Mika's. They've both been bad when they've played together and not so great when they haven't. You should also know why Mika would be a tougher contract to move.....it's his cap number and remaining term limit.

Would I have scratched Mika a few times this year already? Yeah I would have. If he's beginning to find his game now I also think it's a little late to save the year. So I am annoyed at the part he played. I also thinking you're riding this Kreider back injury for all it's worth. We've seen him get a couple goals lately on a team rush and finding an extra gear to get past the defender. I think he's healthy again and has been for a while and he played last night and had another rush goal against Sweden. Why would he even be in this tournament if he's banged up? The Rangers pay him not team USA. This tournament AFAIC is show off shit. He shouldn't be playing if he's hurt. He's not had a good year though and if he picks up late in the season and we don't make the playoffs----like Mika it will be too little too late. His would be an easier contract to move too.

 

[RangerBoy]

Fox is like Zubov. People coming up with superfluous reasons to trade our most talented D-man. We have missed opportunities to add guys like Hanifin and Chychrun as partners for him in the past.

Hanifin.

You're not concerned with Fox's level of play this season? Everyone blames every factor except Fox. Lindgren's fault. Drury's fault. Laviolette's fault. Housley's fault. Who else can you blame?

Fox was supposed to play with Slavin in the 4 Nations and we would see the real Adam Fox. Fox still looks awful. The lack of a defense partner is why Fox looks awful? He is not the same player from a few seasons ago. Lindgren was the partner at that time. Nothing has really changed. He takes a dumb penalty last night and he whines to the officials. Be quiet and serve your two minutes.

Top 20 skaters in the 4 Nations



Sweden-U.S.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

delete

 

[McRanger92]

Hanifin.

You're not concerned with Fox's level of play this season? Everyone blames every factor except Fox. Lindgren's fault. Drury's fault. Laviolette's fault. Housley's fault. Who else can you blame?

Fox was supposed to play with Slavin in the 4 Nations and we would see the real Adam Fox. Fox still looks awful. The lack of a defense partner is why Fox looks awful? He is not the same player from a few seasons ago. Lindgren was the partner at that time. Nothing has really changed. He takes a dumb penalty last night and he whines to the officials. Be quiet and serve your two minutes.

Top 20 skaters in the 4 Nations



Sweden-U.S.

Define 'concerned"? I'm concerned with the entire team's drop off in play from last year. Am i concerned that Fox is somehow now damaged goods because he is having a slightly off year? No. He's still on pace to have 65-70 points and that's with regression from his 12% shooting percentage last year.

Now if you're asking me I think Fox has been infected (like Lafreniere) by the older core vets and the "compete when I fee like it" mentality they've all had this year, then yes that is concerning. I think he is a whiner and I think he's been dogging it this year. I haven't thought he's looked nearly as bad as everyone else apparently does in the Four Nations, because he is the only guy who seems willing to actually defend his position.

You're a great poster and I respect you, but you're like a dog with a bone with this Fox stuff. Like you have an ax to grind. And some random Rangers fan twitter accounts and Dom L saying Fox is bad isnt convincing me or anyone else. Sorry.

 

[pld459666]

Not sure anyone is saying that Fox is having a good season.

But I also don't believe you trade a Fox level player due to one bad season while still in the prime of his career as he just turned 27.

There is not one player on the team, in the pipeline or available in a trade tjat can give us offensively what Fox can and does.

Whats the point as we would then be scrambling to find his replacement thus nullifying the trade anyway.

 

[McRanger92]

Not sure anyone is saying that Fox is having a good season.

But I also don't believe you trade a Fox level player due to one bad season while still in the prime of his career as he just turned 27.

There is not one player on the team, in the pipeline or available in a trade tjat can give us offensively what Fox can and does.

Whats the point as we would then be scrambling to find his replacement thus nullifying the trade anyway.

Bingo. Nobody does their homework, they just say "trade this guy because I don't like him today"

 

[kovazub94]

What is this f***ing nonsense?

The best thing the Rangers can do is get Mika out of the funk that he's in that way:

1.) They have another number one center or
2.) They have a number one center to trade

"break him"
"bench him"

Does nothing for this franchise except make his trade value even lower, make him more impossible to trade, and make clear to the entire league that the Rangers are a Mickey Mouse operation that stomps their feet when they get mad and take their toys away.

This is the kind of unrealistic shit, er, solutions that you suggest that are beyond the pale and completely unrealistic. Not only that, they are completely counter intuitive to what you're trying to accomplish (get rid of Mika).

Fixing your problems are easier than getting rid of them. Make Mika valuable again.

We just have an example from the opposite side on what happens when the organization loses control of the roster and must sell their number one center for cents on a dollar.

Vacation time is over. The players are reporting later this afternoon for practice. Today and tomorrow are the days we may see a few trades made which has been the speculation since the NHL shutdown last Sunday.

Kreider went from not playing for two games to playing a prominent role for the U.S. team. Power play. PK. Top line. Hopefully, Kreider's trade value can be reestablished or other teams see he can still be a major contributor these next two seasons including in the playoffs this season.

NHL front office might have given a directive to postpone any trade announcements (if possible) until after the challenge tournament ends.

 

[NYR Viper]

Adam Fox is playing a season, following a year in which his team went deep in the playoffs and he had a pretty major knee injury which likely set back his time table to train in the off-season. So it was a short offseason anyways and then he needed to give his body more time than others to actually heal. Surprise, he has a 'down' season which still puts him top-20 in the NHL in terms of his position.

 

[bernmeister]

Kreider is not injured.

He may have discomfort, he may have even been hurt but he is not injured.

Injured players don’t play

back issues are not mere discomfort
your generalization "Injured players don’t play" is fair. Howev, it is a rigid yes/no black/white scenario which does not acknowledge the reality of gray middle ground.
Kreid is looking good lately when he plays now, but it is at the cost of sitting games here and there, and sometimes coasting when he does play. He has to do but not overdo, and pick his spots for isolated bursts of going full tilt. I am not a dr but that is what the eye test says

It does not make sense for a trade partner to pay full top $$$ price for classic Kreider given the above reality.
I get how some peeps here don't wanna admit to current ck medical condition and treatment actually being as I've described, despite what is obv, and don't want to follow thru and admit current Kreider does not command max value, only discounted value at present time.

we should keep ck at discount for now
reassess going forward if as appears his back continues to repair

he has short term contract, no nmc to kick in
let's not be stupid and either
give away an asset cheap
or
give away an asset more profitable to keep

Look I like Chris Kreider but this team doesn't revolve around him. If people can contemplate moving Igor, Fox, Panarin, Lafreniere they can certainly contemplate moving Kreider.....and you don't have to take it like it's a personal affront. He's not our most important player.....there are several ahead of him.

I don't get how trading Kreider appeases Mika? That doesn't make any sense. It might make Mika more apt to want to move on to but we don't really know these people. That's not clear at all. Because a player is declining or because he signed a contract does not make him a jerk either. It might make his relationship with the fanbase more problematic but it doesn't say anything about the player as an actual person. You're ready to make excuses for Kreiders underwhelming season and not Mika's. They've both been bad when they've played together and not so great when they haven't. You should also know why Mika would be a tougher contract to move.....it's his cap number and remaining term limit.

Would I have scratched Mika a few times this year already? Yeah I would have. If he's beginning to find his game now I also think it's a little late to save the year. So I am annoyed at the part he played. I also thinking you're riding this Kreider back injury for all it's worth. We've seen him get a couple goals lately on a team rush and finding an extra gear to get past the defender. I think he's healthy again and has been for a while and he played last night and had another rush goal against Sweden. Why would he even be in this tournament if he's banged up? The Rangers pay him not team USA. This tournament AFAIC is show off shit. He shouldn't be playing if he's hurt. He's not had a good year though and if he picks up late in the season and we don't make the playoffs----like Mika it will be too little too late. His would be an easier contract to move too.

1. "I like Chris Kreider but this team doesn't revolve around him. If people can contemplate moving Igor, Fox, Panarin, Lafreniere they can certainly contemplate moving Kreider.....and you don't have to take it like it's a personal affront."
a) agree team does not revolve around ck, but that is not relevant to my basic pt, which is you don't shortchange yourself on an asset.
b) I don't take it as a personal affront that some want to move him. They have a right to their opinion and I have a right to assert my position. I support the overall competition of ideas. I have a right to impress that ck's health status is likely as I have described, and ignoring that is not constructive to an objective appraisal of the situation.
c) I do take Mika's conduct as a personal affront. He has thumbed his nose at all of us, to which there is no excuse or justification, and to which he must be expelled asap.


2. "don't get how trading Kreider appeases Mika? That doesn't make any sense"
Some have proffered that zib won't waive if ck is still here, so Kreids must go first.
No, fug that, zib does not determine that. He capitulates to R mgmt.
It is also necessary to draw this line in the sand going forward for other players.

3. "You're ready to make excuses for Kreiders underwhelming season and not Mika's."
Kreider does not need an excuse; for him, there is a legit reason: injury.
And let us objectively remember this injury is likely in part our fault due to Rs playing pretty much only him on PP in front of the net, where he constantly gets beat up. Rinse and repeat for several seasons, with zero relief, and is it any wonder this guy's having back problems?
LET ALL THAT TRUTH SINK IN, PEOPLE

Meeka has no honest or other basis for his conduct, which is an apparent disregard for his contractual duties, not playing 100% at all times, playing offense when he wants and showing zero contact engagement.
who the eff does he think he is?
I'm happy to cut our losses and not hope for more later while keeping this guy around. IF he is ostracized as he deserves to be and agrees to move, we can likely send him to NYI or BOS for min return which is fine, and should be done IMMEDIATELY
LET ALL THAT TRUTH SINK IN, PEOPLE

 

[Bob Richards]

Fox will be basically the same guy next season but he won’t shoot 0.0001% and his partner won’t be Ryan Lindgren and all these trade demand posts will suddenly be about how seriously he started taking the offseason or his nutrition or how his skating is looking quicker lol.

I’ve seen this song and dance a million times.