Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVI

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He's playing way over his head as it is right now so either sign him as a 3rd line C and trade Zibanejad or VICE VERSA.
I'd rather keep Hayes over Zib.
Trade one of these f***ers already and get it over with already lol
 
He's playing way over his head as it is right now so either sign him as a 3rd line C and trade Zibanejad or VICE VERSA.
I'd rather keep Hayes over Zib.
Trade one of these ****ers already and get it over with already lol
Disagree that he is playing "way over his head".
 
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Disagree that he is playing "way over his head".

Zib or Hayes..
Either you're going to get offense and no defense or defense with no offense.
Pick your poison.
Neither of which constitutes as a #1/#2 Center.

By the end of the year neither will be in the top 100 of the league.

Is it really worth the price tag??
 
Duchene is not a disappointment.

As a 3rd overall? Under the premise that the 3rd overall should be a franchise type of player? The guy has averaged like 65 points per 82 games. He’s a really good player, but against those expectations... yes he’s a disappointment.
 
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Anyone else think that when Buch comes back Zucc is gone? I think we have too many players needing to play

Namestnikov-Zib-Buch
Kreider-Hayes-Chytil
Vesey-Howden-Strome
McLeod-Lias-Fast
Will likely be the lines without Zucc, unless we send Lias back down and move Strome to 4C
I don’t see how we can roll with a full roster including Zucc all the way to the TDL
 
I was thinking of Zucc + Skjei + Georgiev for Parayko + Bokk + Unprotected 1st. What do we need to add to that? That's a special package imo. Also helps our tank because then we have Mazanec as a backup for the rest of the year.
 
The problem I have with evaluating draft positions in isolation is it leaves out so many factors. Namely the strength of the draft class and the ability of the amateur scouting making the pick. Plus it doesn't account for the players taken after that position.

Since the #3 pick is being bandied about here, let's look at that in 2013. The 3rd overall pick was Jonathan Drouin. He was billed as an elite, potentially game-breaking talent but he hasn't yet panned out as hoped. So if you look at that pick in isolation, it's easy to say that the 3rd overall doesn't always pan out. However it doesn't account for what might have happened if Tampa had simply decided to go D instead of F. They end up with Seth Jones who was ranked ahead of Drouin on a lot of public lists and is of course an absolute stud. Suddenly it's a stronger case for the 3rd overall being a slot where elite talent is likely to be had. It all comes down to what the list looks like when the team is on the clock. Every team could have a different player ranked at #3 on their board in some years.

Nothing is a certainty, and there will certainly be misses, but the earlier you pick in the draft the better odds you have of finding highly talented players. Then of course you increase your odds as you fall deeper into the draft by acquiring more picks than the ones you're awarded by default.

I mentioned it in another thread, but this amateur scouting staff has shown that their lists don't necessarily align with the public lists and for the most part it's been paying dividends. There have been some major whiffs and the jury is still out on some guys, but there's something to be said about how well they're drafting and how committed they are to sticking to their list.

And the problem I have with this post is that it misses the point of this conversation. Talking about who has been taken at 3 is nothing more than an illustration that picking high gives you a high probability of getting a first line or first pairing player, but doesn’t give you a high probability of getting a franchise type, which everyone agrees you need. The whole debate is “how do we get that kind of player?” It would be exactly the same thing if we looked at 4 or 5, though believe it or not those picks have a slightly better track record. 3-5 is not much better than picking in 6-15. Again, for the purposes of elite players only. Not your average 1st liners or high end 2nd liners. Those picks are better for that. At 1 and 2, yes your probability is much higher that you’ll get an elite player.
 
Doesn’t Buffalo have three firsts this year? I wonder if they’d take Zucc for one of them + Oskaari Laaksonen. He’s a big, Finnish RHD that’s having a really solid year in Liiga
I highly doubt they’d be willing to move Laaksonen due to his great development but I’d be all over that
 
For sure, but their roster is littered with "now" guys who I don't think they'd be willing to move.

I'd love to bring Lebanc home, but I can't see that being something that they'd do.
Yeah, I’m not sure what I’d be interested in from the Sharks that they’d also be likely to move either, but they missed out on Tavares in FA and I could seem them take a run at trading and signing Hayes if they don’t think Karlsson will stick around
 
Yeah, I’m not sure what I’d be interested in from the Sharks that they’d also be likely to move either, but they missed out on Tavares in FA and I could seem them take a run at trading and signing Hayes if they don’t think Karlsson will stick around

They'd have to get real creative for Hayes.

From Toronto, something are Johnsson and Grundstrom is something I could get behind for Zucc.
 
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As a 3rd overall? Under the premise that the 3rd overall should be a franchise type of player? The guy has averaged like 65 points per 82 games. He’s a really good player, but against those expectations... yes he’s a disappointment.

Is this one of those situations where you have to look at the rest of the draft to judge the pick? Sure you want your third overall to be a franchise type player, but outside of Tavares the only other player in that draft that I'd say could carry that tag is Ekman-Larsson.
There's some other good to excellent players in there, but it doesn't strike me as a draft where you'd look back having taken Duchene and think "we really missed out there". There's just not the top end talent.
 
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And the problem I have with this post is that it misses the point of this conversation. Talking about who has been taken at 3 is nothing more than an illustration that picking high gives you a high probability of getting a first line or first pairing player, but doesn’t give you a high probability of getting a franchise type, which everyone agrees you need. The whole debate is “how do we get that kind of player?” It would be exactly the same thing if we looked at 4 or 5, though believe it or not those picks have a slightly better track record. 3-5 is not much better than picking in 6-15. Again, for the purposes of elite players only. Not your average 1st liners or high end 2nd liners. Those picks are better for that. At 1 and 2, yes your probability is much higher that you’ll get an elite player.

I really think you missed the point of what I was saying.
 
Is this one of those situations where you have to look at the rest of the draft to judge the pick? Sure you want your third overall to be a franchise type player, but outside of Tavares the only other player in that draft that I'd say could carry that tag is Ekman-Larsson.
There's some other good to excellent players in there, but it doesn't strike me as a draft where you'd look back having taken Duchene and think "we really missed out there". There's just not the top end talent.

That’s how the draft turned out, but on draft day, do you think the Avalanche and Avalanche fans thought they were getting an average 1st liner?
 
That’s how the draft turned out, but on draft day, do you think the Avalanche and Avalanche fans thought they were getting an average 1st liner?

I can't remember enough of that draft to know what the expectation on Duchene was, but isn't that sort of the point? That while fans just assume that a 3rd round pick will be franchise changing, there's going to be plenty where you end up with 'just' a very good player and that's not disappointing, it's just the facts of the draft.
So from while fans may be disappointed, mainly because they have unrealistic expectations, if Duchene's chance of being a 'franchise' player was pretty low, and there weren't really any taken after him then I still can't see how you'd call him a disappointment
 
I can't remember enough of that draft to know what the expectation on Duchene was, but isn't that sort of the point? That while fans just assume that a 3rd round pick will be franchise changing, there's going to be plenty where you end up with 'just' a very good player and that's not disappointing, it's just the facts of the draft.
So from while fans may be disappointed, mainly because they have unrealistic expectations, if Duchene's chance of being a 'franchise' player was pretty low, and there weren't really any taken after him then I still can't see how you'd call him a disappointment

Again... that entire post was with the premise that the standard for a 3OA was that you’re drafting a franchise player. That’s the standard I was measuring against. I was measuring against that standard, not because I believe that standard, but because so many people here want us to have a pick in that range to increase our chances of drafting a franchise player. It’s always top-3 this or top-5 that, but really it’s gotta be top-2. Otherwise, the odds aren’t that different from drafting top-10 or top-15.

And that doesn’t even get into the Monte Carlo of it all. That’s a whole other topic.
 
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Zuc to Edmonton
Hayes to Winnipeg/Vegas/Colorado
McQuaid/Smith anywhere.
Take those picks and prospects and continue down this road. Reach out to Panarin and Stone if they make free agency and take either one.
 
I was thinking of Zucc + Skjei + Georgiev for Parayko + Bokk + Unprotected 1st. What do we need to add to that? That's a special package imo. Also helps our tank because then we have Mazanec as a backup for the rest of the year.

STL would hang up the phone and probably hold a grudge against Gorton. Rangers have to add bigtime there. Replace Zuc with Buch and add the Tampa conditional 1st/2nd.
 
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